(L) Mushoku Tensei: Isekai Ittara Honki Dasu (Jobless Reincarnation)

[Znail]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

The thing is, we didn't make assumption about the school. We are neutral. The anime didn't give us anything so we never assume whether the school he went into was good or bad. Why? Because bullying can happen anywhere, in any kind of school.

The problem is the OTT portrayal of the bullying.

When worse things have actually happened in reality then you can't really claim that the fiction is OTT.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Znail

When worse things have actually happened in reality then you can't really claim that the fiction is OTT.

I've never seen such ultra-public bullying like "naked crucifixion at the school front gate" ever happened in modern Japan in the age of camera phones. Feel free to give me some factual examples. I'll wait.

If you can give legit examples, I'll happily reconsider my view on that scene.

[BWTraveller]

Well, there have been cases of people tormenting others and recording it. There have even been cases of people sexually assaulting other people out in the open at parties while everyone around just recorded it with their phones (we only hear about them if some of the audience post the videos/pictures to social media, which has indeed happened).

As for comparison, how about then you see a neighborhood and a guy suddenly pulls a knife and starts stabbing at someone, and as a fight/bloodbath starts the people around gather and start to cheer. Do you "stay neutral" and assume that the author who wrote this has no clue how normal people in a normal neighborhood act because he wrote such an "over-the-top" scene? Or do you assume that the author is trying to convey that this is set at a location where law enforcement is lax enough and the people are cutthroat enough that they'd react to deadly violence with amusement?

[maximilianjenus]

two things, this is not even the age of smart phones.
rudy was 34 when he died, and the bullying happened 20 years before, smart phones were not a thing in the 90s, neither social media, that should be lampshaded too bu showing flipphones.
its also pretty interesting that you call it exagerated when that week there was news of that same thing just happening in japan. some girl was seeing a guy but his girlfriend caught up and forced her to strip naked and apologyze like that in public, there were bystanders. this being the social media age, the bullies got brought to the authorities and only the one that xould be directly implicated got punished, while a friend of hers who accompanied her during the whole process, a second bully from the victims perspective , got out by saying that she did not tell the victim to do anything. so people ganging up is very likely.
i still blame the anime for saving animation effort in one scene as it had more worth. before rudy gets bullied, the bullies were bullying some other kid, rudy tried to play hero and that si why the bullies were particularly crueler to him.
that later comes into play because that was exactly the same situation with sylph, so it would have shown that rudy got over that trauma.
Onto another point, who else thought that some of rudys thoughts impli he found silph atractive as a male.

ah, if you can visit a nsfw site, here is the note.
https://www.sankakucomplex.com/2021/...ed-submission/

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I've never seen such ultra-public bullying like "naked crucifixion at the school front gate" ever happened in modern Japan in the age of camera phones. Feel free to give me some factual examples. I'll wait.

If you can give legit examples, I'll happily reconsider my view on that scene.

Unless you live in Japan, you are very unlikely to learn about such cases, especially when it comes to situations that happened before the internet became really widespread. As pointed out by maximilianjenus, it was definitely in the 90s (which is actually demonstrated in the anime since the students were using flip phones, not smartphones).
But alas, even in the age of smartphone, that kind of garbage still happens. I'm pretty sure I could dig more, but I really don't feel doing more than that. As you can see, even if it isn't "right in the open", they don't care if it can be recorded since they will do it themselves. *

Bullying is a major issue in Japan, and from what I could learn from native people I could have some discussions with before, Rudy's case is hardly the most extreme. Public humiliation is hardly something Japanese kids won't do, regardless if there is any kind of bystanderds or not.
Regarding of the number of bullies, context aside, I can attest that it doesn't fucking matter. Depending on the situation, these pieces of shit can crawl like cockroaches and harass their toy while they are a dozen or even the whole class because it is fun for them. And actually, the bullies will take that as an advantage since the victim will have even harder time to stand their grounds when they are facing so many bullies at once.
Oh and, obviously, it absolutely doesn't matter if it is Japan or not. You will find extreme case of bullying in most countries, although Japan has a "unique" context since it somewhat aggravate that problem to some new levels at times.

* EDIT: Actually, this should be "nice"

Before his suicide, he even received a sympathy card signed by his classmates and four teachers, including his homeroom teacher, after they staged a mock funeral for him in the classroom

[maximilianjenus]

the thing with sylph was cute and of course a kid who gets bullied because of the colour of her hair will cut her hair short, i love little details like that.

now, i dont remember if this was skipped in the anime or will be said later and did not feel like commenting about it, but i saw a lot of posts saying that rudys family does not know sylph ao, just in case as i think they can still move the little reveal one or two episodes after this one, unlike rueus bullying details.

Spoiler for skipped material, likely to be said next anyway:

paul and siplhies father are workmates, so ofc rudys family knows about silph

as a wn and manga reader i love how the anime portrays the characters, some characters that felt like adornments like rudys family, feel lore alive here , in the case of zenith i went all the way from disliking her to liking her .

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Look at the time-stamp of 12:54 in this episode:

YouTube

https://youtu.be/47yfpGOK2cY

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

You said 3-5? There are at least nine bullies with visible heads who were waiting for him near his house, not counting those who were obscured by objects. None of them should be bystanders coz bystanders wouldn't bother to go to his house to mock him even more. 3-5 my ass.

How do I have to bare that info in mind when the anime itself didn't tell me that? (so far)

You mean his halucination/delusion? You know that normal bullies usually doesn't glitch, right?

[Klashikari]

The numbers don't even matter. There were IRL cases, be it Japan and elsewhere, where the -WHOLE- class (20-30 students) were collectively bullying 1 person. Even if not all of them are actively bullying the victim (just "following the flow" without doing the reprehensible act directly), half of them being the active bullies isn't unheard of. And this hits close home in my case but I digress.

[maximilianjenus]

understand, i mean i remember a friend who used to complain about skirts being too short in anime so they broke his immersion, he stopped complaining when he moved to tokyo and noticed that japanese females wear skirts that short.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

* EDIT: Actually, this should be "nice"

Ah, now that is a great factual example. I've been waiting for that one. No need to post long replies if you have that.

So, like I said in my previous post, I now happily reconsider that scene from MT because at least there's one good example from Japan to represent it .

Originally Posted by maximilianjenus

two things, this is not even the age of smart phones.
rudy was 34 when he died, and the bullying happened 20 years before, smart phones were not a thing in the 90s, neither social media, that should be lampshaded too bu showing flipphones.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

As pointed out by maximilianjenus, it was definitely in the 90s (which is actually demonstrated in the anime since the students were using flip phones, not smartphones).

I never said "smartphones". I said "camera phones". Flip phone has camera too, you know. Also, even in the year of 2014, flip phones are still very common in Japan. Flip phone sales even jumped in that year. So, flip phones alone is not an absolute indication of the 90s era of Japan.

Originally Posted by maximilianjenus

ah, if you can visit a nsfw site, here is the note.
https://www.sankakucomplex.com/2021/...ed-submission/

Not strong enough. Klash's example is better.

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

You mean his halucination/delusion? You know that normal bullies usually doesn't glitch, right?

Even if it's a hallucination, that scene still tell us how many bullies he had from his memory. Also, if you said that scene is a hallucination then what part of his flashback is real? I mean, his flashbacks are mostly represented by, well, glitch-like flashes.

[apr]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I never said "smartphones". I said "camera phones". Flip phone has camera too, you know. Also, even in the year of 2014, flip phones are still very common in Japan. Flip phone sales even jumped in that year. So, flip phones alone is not an absolute indication of the 90s era of Japan.

Not sure why you're dragging this argument out page after page, but it seems logical to assume that since he was 34 years old when he died, his memories from school bullying would have taken place at least 15 years before "now", which depending on the anime's setting would mean ~2005 at the very latest. Long before social media got big.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by apr

Not sure why you're dragging this argument out page after page, but it seems logical to assume that since he was 34 years old when he died, his memories from school bullying would have taken place at least 15 years before "now", which depending on the anime's setting would mean ~2005 at the very latest. Long before social media got big.

First, I don't see what's wrong with the argument since the bullying trauma is a very important theme in the show so far.

Second, internet is already a popular thing in 2005 Japan where people can still post pics & photos, or they can send pics to others via their phones.

Third, this argument has been solved by Klash. If you don't want it to continue & drag, why still replying to it?

[HandofFate]

I think the focus on bullying discussion is a pointless, like for all his trauma, he sure acts confident and sure of himself.

all fine with his parents and trying to make friends. A distrust of people or dismissive attitude of parents certainly didn't carry much into reincarnation, other some slight phobia about going outside, which was squashed pretty early.

Take out the hikko trash backstory beforehand, and you wouldn't know the difference from this snarky isekai MC than any other.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by HandofFate

I think the focus on bullying discussion is a pointless, like for all his trauma, he sure acts confident and sure of himself.

all fine with his parents and trying to make friends. A distrust of people or dismissive attitude of parents certainly didn't carry much into reincarnation, other some slight phobia about going outside, which was squashed pretty early.

Take out the hikko trash backstory beforehand, and you wouldn't know the difference from this snarky isekai MC than any other.

For an isekai MC whose thoughts we can hear, he sure doesn't regret or think too much of his original parents who he had failed, does he? In episode 2, his flashback is more about his trauma than remorse.

Like Bakato said in previous pages, surely he could've been more endearing if he voiced more inner remorse to us, the audience, at this point.

[Guardian Enzo]

Are Rudy and Sylph really supposed to be 5 year-olds? They sure look (and act, even her) older.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Are Rudy and Sylph really supposed to be 5 year-olds? They sure look (and act, even her) older.

Again, six or seven. I remember the next arc he's supposed to be like seven or eight.

[Thor's Hammer]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Are Rudy and Sylph really supposed to be 5 year-olds? They sure look (and act, even her) older.

They were definitely at least 6. At the start of the episode, Rudeus noted it was summer. Then later in the episode, he noted that it was summer AGAIN, which means a full year had passed by that point.

[Guardian Enzo]

OK, thx. I read 5 elsewhere and that definitely seemed off to me.

It does raise the interesting question of what the cutoff is to get "the full Rudy" past the censors. Like, no way Kemono Jihen could have gotten away with it.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

OK, thx. I read 5 elsewhere and that definitely seemed off to me.

It does raise the interesting question of what the cutoff is to get "the full Rudy" past the censors. Like, no way Kemono Jihen could have gotten away with it.

I was pretty surprised to see Rudy's little Rudy too .

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Frontier

I was pretty surprised to see Rudy's little Rudy too .

It seems that Japanese broadcasting is fine with showing us little boys' PPs. In Doraemon, we saw Nobita & gang's full-frontal more than a couple of times and in Crayon Shin-chan, Shinnosuke likes to show off his "elephant" countless times without any post-production blocking censors .