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Old 2018-04-04, 10:41   Link #461
Obelisk ze Tormentor
Black Steel Knight
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nojay View Post
You could say the same about goblins or kobolds or other mobs that are there to get slaughtered and turned into XP by "brave" adventurers who care not for the widows and orphans they leave behind as they head back to the Adventurers Guild with a bagful of ears to prove their subjugation quest is complete.
If said goblins and kobolds have intelligence and societal lives like humans and they don't actively hurt humans then yeah, I will feel bad for them too, just like the innocent people in this episode. I'm trying to not be a speciesist here .

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Originally Posted by nojay View Post
Deep down inside Lord Ainz, a level 5 Overlord, a Lawful Evil undead of immense power lurks Suzuki Satoru, a salaryman from Tokyo but in this world it's Lord Ainz that's in charge and for him humans are smart dangerous adversaries at worst and cattle to be harvested at the best. The human races locally would think nothing of destroying the Great Tomb and obliterating all within it, indeed some of them such as the Slaine Theocracy would regard it as a sacred duty. Unfortunately for them he's no level 30 Elder Lich pushover and he's committed to maintaining Nazarick and its NPCs and if that means treating humans as cattle, well mooo!
Morally-speaking, why didn't he and his Nazarick fellows just hide from humans forever then? Humans will mostly never hurt something that they don't know the existence of, while Aniz can live happily in a secret tomb surrounded by his servants.
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Old 2018-04-04, 11:07   Link #462
AC-Phoenix
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
If said goblins and kobolds have intelligence and societal lives like humans and they don't actively hurt humans then yeah, I will feel bad for them too, just like the innocent people in this episode. I'm trying to not be a speciesist here .

Morally-speaking, why didn't he and his Nazarick fellows just hide from humans forever then? Humans will mostly never hurt something that they don't know the existence of, while Aniz can live happily in a secret tomb surrounded by his servants.
He wanted to find other Yggdrassil players, specifically his clan members.
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Old 2018-04-04, 11:09   Link #463
SilverGlavenus
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^^Cause Ainz knows too little about the world, and there maybe some forces out there that can threaten Nazarick. So it's obvious that they gather more info, and in the process, drag the human kingdoms into their mess. Or it's just simply that Ainz is curious.

I do wonder had the NPCs been real life people, would Ainz have done the same ??
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Old 2018-04-04, 11:11   Link #464
nojay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
Morally-speaking, why didn't he and his Nazarick fellows just hide from humans forever then? Humans will mostly never hurt something that they don't know the existence of, while Ainz can live happily in a secret tomb surrounded by his servants.
Until they're discovered by Players or invaded or over-run or whatever. Momonga's specialty in the Guild was information and intelligence about competitors and specifics about the game world of Yggdrasil and he's actively investigating the dangerous new world he's been dropped into in the same way for the same reasons, survival only it isn't a game any more.

It's one of the things that makes this series interesting for me, the idea that the main character is not human and moreover doesn't regard humanity as anything special or that he must treat humanity with particular care or respect. As for "guilty" versus "innocent" well...
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Old 2018-04-04, 11:49   Link #465
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix View Post
He wanted to find other Yggdrassil players, specifically his clan members.
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Originally Posted by SilverGlavenus View Post
^^Cause Ainz knows too little about the world, and there maybe some forces out there that can threaten Nazarick. So it's obvious that they gather more info, and in the process, drag the human kingdoms into their mess. Or it's just simply that Ainz is curious.
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Originally Posted by nojay View Post
Until they're discovered by Players or invaded or over-run or whatever. Momonga's specialty in the Guild was information and intelligence about competitors and specifics about the game world of Yggdrasil and he's actively investigating the dangerous new world he's been dropped into in the same way for the same reasons, survival only it isn't a game any more.

It's one of the things that makes this series interesting for me, the idea that the main character is not human and moreover doesn't regard humanity as anything special or that he must treat humanity with particular care or respect. As for "guilty" versus "innocent" well...
And that's why innocent people that meant no harm in this new world got dragged into all this. At the end of the day, it all goes back to Momonga/Ainz' decision to explore the world.

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Originally Posted by SilverGlavenus View Post
I do wonder had the NPCs been real life people, would Ainz have done the same ??
There are a number of variables to consider and I won't bother to think about it.
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Old 2018-04-04, 13:25   Link #466
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Forever View Post
Well the original plan was to farm the lizardmen for his undead army. Oh well humans will have to do...
You're right. It's really an old low. In fact, the bit with the Lizardmen was worse. The decision to kill them all was 100% Ainz. The humans getting kidnapped was just an initiative of Demiurge, which he then had to deal with.
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Old 2018-04-04, 13:55   Link #467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nojay View Post
Until they're discovered by Players or invaded or over-run or whatever. Momonga's specialty in the Guild was information and intelligence about competitors and specifics about the game world of Yggdrasil and he's actively investigating the dangerous new world he's been dropped into in the same way for the same reasons, survival only it isn't a game any more.

It's one of the things that makes this series interesting for me, the idea that the main character is not human and moreover doesn't regard humanity as anything special or that he must treat humanity with particular care or respect. As for "guilty" versus "innocent" well...
I think Ainz has passed the point of simple information gathering long ago. If the goal was to avoid Player assault, this would have the opposite effect.
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Old 2018-04-04, 14:42   Link #468
nojay
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Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
I think Ainz has passed the point of simple information gathering long ago. If the goal was to avoid Player assault, this would have the opposite effect.
He was sort of hoping to find some of his own Guild's Players in this world but he was conversely wary of other Players, especially PK types or anti-heteromorphic forces -- the Slaine Theocracy for example. Notice the number of times he's laid traps, leaked false information, blocked attempts by others to detect magic or spy on him, used false identities and Doppelgangers, prepared refuges and the like.

If he knew what he knows now back when Nazarick and the NPCs appeared in this new world it's possible he'd have been a lot more cautious but that's what makes this series enjoyable to watch.
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Old 2018-04-04, 15:49   Link #469
Blueknight78
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ok, about the last episode while overal the serie and previous episode i feel which was good this one i really feel was really "weak" it's don't help when you know which some of them are just "acting" and don't taking serious the fights, the princess plan failed, but this don't means which she is angry well as long she have him at her side she will be fine.

about demiurgo, i do feel which he is a very hard possible real betrayer" in the end, while ainz do want them to "evolve beyond they programation i really can't see he want demiuge going so far by doing all he did and even worse in future, at this point if i was him i could be very cautions toward demirge, he is really dangerous and if ainz keep being "too nice" with humans it can make him want more and more betray him in the future.

About the whole "ainz is evil and don't have any humanity" i total disagree with that, so far while he is "locked inside this evil form" and his humanity is being restrained, i really don't believe which he really don't want be "good" and feel bad over the peoples the end of the episode made clear which he is not liking his situation" and he do want his humanity".

And this lead to my problem with this serie, his lack of humanity feel too forced for me, they don't give a proper explanation about "why he is there" the only explanation was 'because he is a undead" and it don't allow him to get "too emotional" but when you have vampires and others possible "no brainless undeads" being able to be good or evil and have feelings make hard take his "restrains serious" specially when ainz keep "flip flop between "evil and good like that" it's feel which the writer is just using a bad excuse to portrait ainz evil or good whenever he want and not because he is really like that, because if him had really lost "his humanity" as peoples are claim he could not give any shit toward a promise with a human, neither protected a human village and neither get angry over tsuere kidnnap, remember he don't have any humanity it's means he don't give a shit to any one, just look at figures like hittler, kim jon and many othes "evil peoples without any real humanity, which can easy kill they own family if they need without care over it, loosing humanity normally means it, don't get any attachment toward anyone and only care toward yourself or in case of become a "beast" just go with his own instincts which again is not ainz case it's clear which while he does have issues in being able to connect with humans he not "totally lost his humanity" he still have it and is trying to do something toward it.

About the lizards, remember it was a ainz plans to 'test" the big bug guy(i'm really bad with names), he really don't wanted to turn them into undeads he told that which could be a total waste" since it obvious they could ending being just "regular brainless weak undeads like the ones which he already have and gain nothing special, he did it to test the guy and make him take decisions for himself and see if him can improve which was a sucess since he decided to not kill them and make them join nazerick, killing them and turn them in undead not was really his real plans at last that was what i get from that.

I really liked sebas arc he is one of my favorite characters and i would like to see more from him in future and also the others specially demiurge which i really feel like him being worked to be really someone to betray ainz in the end.

And another note about shaltear and the hero guy, wow i'm starting to see a sort of "love/hate" relationship being made that, maybe this guy can grow more and more to a point where he can really impress shaltear and maybe make her "want him" not as a dead body but make a "sex slave" or something like that which could be fun, cuz it's really looks like he want that, to be acknowledge by her it become his personal goal to get strong enough to get on her attention and make her "remember of him".
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Old 2018-04-04, 16:21   Link #470
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
I think Ainz has passed the point of simple information gathering long ago. If the goal was to avoid Player assault, this would have the opposite effect.
Well, right now, one of his objectives is to catch those who brainwashed Shalltear. He can never rest easy as long as they're at large.

Another is to not disappoint his NPCs. He plays the role of an all-conquering tyrant because that's what they expect of him. He blunders into things and lets them do whatever because he can never admit he doesn't know what's going on.
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Old 2018-04-04, 22:45   Link #471
Solace
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Well he doesn't really have a choice either. He can't go back to the human world even if he wanted to, and he's in this situation to begin with because of his deep affinities toward his guildmates and what they built (Nazerick). I wouldn't exactly say he's enjoying being the conqueror, but that's also what makes his character interesting. If he had never been "the human from another world", but instead had been Momon from the beginning, the character of Ainz would probably be completely different.

To be honest, that distinction and how Overlord handles it help make this story feel unique compared to others like it. He's overpowered, but he's not invincible, he's a monster, but his origins temper it, he isn't just learning the ropes of the world he is in now, but also learning a new Nazerick too. And because the denizens of Nazerick are bonkers creations by obviously eccentric players, you get a unique cast that almost feels like a fun dysfunctional family. Of monsters.

The writing reflects this too, which is why we get scenes like Ainz getting sentimental during his visit with Sebas. They're really the only family he's got now.
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Old 2018-04-04, 23:45   Link #472
Velsy
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Demurigres plan actually turned out better than I thought it would be. The main issue I was having, while it would make Momons rep look good, if the incident ever got tied to Narazick, It'd come back to bite Ainz on the ass. Even if it Kingdom cant hold a candle to Nararick, its a big blow in reputation and trust. Ainz surely doesnt want to make enemies out of the world, it would get annoying. And from my observation, the princess inst stupid, she could eventually work it out and tie the pieces. Especially if lives were lost during this event, its considered a tragic attack on the kingdom.

However the most genius part of the plan, was its location in the warehouse district. I assumed they choose that area due to being low in population during the night. It felt like effort to lower the potential causalities. But I was wrong, the genius Demiruge chose that location so they could rob the kingdom of their supplies and use it for Nararick. Bloody Genius!. I got to give Demirugre props there. Well played.

As for the kidnapping, well it goes back on me mentioning it could bite Nararick on the ass. Only time will tell of the possible negative effects. Demirgre was poorly disguised. Only a mask, but his suit was the same. I "felt" Ainz got a bit surprised over the kidnappings, but he sorta understood Demirugres motive towards aiding Naracrick so he let it go is my POV. They have crossed the line, theres no going back.

As for Shaltear bailing on Brain... Well it makes it clear Climb was the target forbidden to kill. Climb being an idiot and returned saved brains life. Happy for him to still live even after that crazy display. But that being said, I had a discussion with a friend a few days about about Demirugres plan, and the princesses plan. We have suspicions demurigre was tapping into her plan, and then screwing her over while being one step ahead. Quite clever and was pleasing to see the results. Climb has grown on me somewhat, so it was nice to see Demirugre go to lengths to keep him alive, while the princess had been trying to kill him so she could resurrect and nurture . For the exact details on why he was screwing with the princess, is still a little unclear. I was hoping they'd find something to blackmail her. My thinking she was linked to 8 fingers was a bust in the end. Nothing to use against her yet, kidnapping climb would just make her angry

Some really fun parts to this episode. Love the part where Ainz sat down with Demiruge to have a talk. Would of been even more hilarious if Mare started serving tea. Amusing with the Pleaides girls sitting around having a chat while Evileye was fighting for her life. A friend pointed out that the two Pleaides fighting Evileye were the two "good" aligned battle maids. Meaning they werent fighting Evileye with the intend to kill. Good on them, I feel like Evileye has an amusing part to play in this story. Have to also mention, I liked Entomas monster voice, I hope she keeps it, and I found the part where she was hissing to be quite cute. Hiss more please :3

Well the ending did feel rushed, I guess they spent too much time on the lizards, which was good in certain parts, but cringy in others. ugh, lizard love <.< .

Now the biggest BULLSHIT of this episode.. Yes BULLSHIT, you heard me.. It was discussed with Evileye that Laykus'es resurrect has the cost of making people cripples. I can contest this rule is valid being a gamer myself. Humanity's peak of spell casting is 5th tier. So the 5th tier spell raise dead is basically, the basic res you find in these type of games. Generally is quite punishing in some way (it varies per game). Where a 10th tier resurrect would have reduced or removed penalty effects. So when the story goes out to say, the basic resurrect has a severe life cost, turning the subjects into cripples until they ahve recovered their life forces. You dont go staright out and break that rule! Defuq was Gagaran and Tia doing coming back into the battle. They are dorained, they cant move!!! yet just because they say "oh its an important battle" doesnt mean they can hope out of bed and join the fray.. Absolutely terrible !! well will end this rant here since this is basically my point.

Well I enjoyed the series. I not going to be like everyone else and rant that it wasnt good enough compared to the 1st. Just feels like they had to ram to much content in 13 episodes. Announcement of series 3 sounds great. I look forward to it.. I really want to see that Heterochromatic chick! I<3 heterochromatics like characters. She reckons shes strong, so I want to see her fight Shaltear to see a clear winnar, but I cant say I have my hopes up for a competitive match, Shaltear being lev 100 and all :s. But a black and white heterochamtiic... with a war sythe ? You have my attention, even if shes the enemy ^_~
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Old 2018-04-05, 00:20   Link #473
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Velsy View Post
Now the biggest BULLSHIT of this episode.. Yes BULLSHIT, you heard me.. It was discussed with Evileye that Laykus'es resurrect has the cost of making people cripples. I can contest this rule is valid being a gamer myself. Humanity's peak of spell casting is 5th tier. So the 5th tier spell raise dead is basically, the basic res you find in these type of games. Generally is quite punishing in some way (it varies per game). Where a 10th tier resurrect would have reduced or removed penalty effects. So when the story goes out to say, the basic resurrect has a severe life cost, turning the subjects into cripples until they ahve recovered their life forces. You dont go staright out and break that rule! Defuq was Gagaran and Tia doing coming back into the battle. They are dorained, they cant move!!! yet just because they say "oh its an important battle" doesnt mean they can hope out of bed and join the fray.. Absolutely terrible !! well will end this rant here since this is basically my point.
What Raise Dead does is that it costs XP (or levels). Let's say it costs about ten levels. But Gagaran and Tia, as Adamantite-class adventurers, have more levels to lose than most. If they're mid-20s, resurrection still leaves them around level 15, which by New World human standards is still pretty badass.
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Old 2018-04-05, 06:31   Link #474
Drake
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I enjoyed the first season of this show but this second season.......not so much. It felt all over the place, and honestly I had barely any idea of what the hell was going on half the time.

Also the lizardman eps were a bit of a waste and felt somewhat pointless, like watching a completely different show.

The characters are still interesting so I'll likely watch a third season, but I definitely think this one was pretty weak overall.
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Old 2018-04-05, 22:34   Link #475
Tormenk
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Somebody explain to me how did Climb end up to be Shalltear's no-kill target? And Brain recognizing Shalltear even though she was disguised with a mask no less.
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Old 2018-04-05, 23:01   Link #476
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Originally Posted by Tormenk View Post
Somebody explain to me how did Climb end up to be Shalltear's no-kill target? And Brain recognizing Shalltear even though she was disguised with a mask no less.

Demiurge said not to kill a specific human at the beginning of the plan. That's climb.
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Old 2018-04-06, 02:49   Link #477
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Demiurge said not to kill a specific human at the beginning of the plan. That's climb.
I rmbed that part when I posed my question.

Climb being a VIP in Demiurge's plan implies he managed to contact Renner and negotiated this deal with her. Result being he managed to gained a human collabrator for Ainz, on top of the four merits he explained in the episode. And Renner on her part, would have made a deal with a devil, sacrificing many of her citizens and the Blue Rose to come up with this elaborate plan to ensnare Climb.

This is just speculation but it just seems like an important chunk that was missing from the episode that I want to know more about.
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Old 2018-04-06, 08:09   Link #478
Randrak42
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Originally Posted by Tormenk View Post
I rmbed that part when I posed my question.

Climb being a VIP in Demiurge's plan implies he managed to contact Renner and negotiated this deal with her. Result being he managed to gained a human collabrator for Ainz, on top of the four merits he explained in the episode. And Renner on her part, would have made a deal with a devil, sacrificing many of her citizens and the Blue Rose to come up with this elaborate plan to ensnare Climb.

This is just speculation but it just seems like an important chunk that was missing from the episode that I want to know more about.
Demiurge did ask permission to go talk to someone after Ainz' meeting with Sebas. He was then seen flying toward the city and especially the castle. Then Demiurge has the location for 8 of the Eight Fingers's Hideouts. Blue Rose found that there were 7 hideouts, so Demiurge would have only known about those; however, in the princess' conversation with her brother and Raven, they decided to add another EIGHTH location to implicate their older brother. So Demiurge having Eight locations implies that he got that info from Renner.

If he got the information from Renner and she is still alive and not telling anyone about that meeting, then that must mean that the information wasn't given forcefully. What would she want in exchange then? Well, Climb's protection is obvious, isn't it? And the innocents that were killed/kidnapped? Why does she care? She only cares about Climb in the end. Allying with Nazarick, the most powerful force in the world composed of monsters, is an obvious choice for a psychopathic princess that is already called just that... a monster.
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Old 2018-04-06, 09:47   Link #479
Velsy
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Originally Posted by Tormenk View Post
I rmbed that part when I posed my question.

Climb being a VIP in Demiurge's plan implies he managed to contact Renner and negotiated this deal with her. Result being he managed to gained a human collabrator for Ainz, on top of the four merits he explained in the episode. And Renner on her part, would have made a deal with a devil, sacrificing many of her citizens and the Blue Rose to come up with this elaborate plan to ensnare Climb.

This is just speculation but it just seems like an important chunk that was missing from the episode that I want to know more about.
Why would Deminugre go off and meet the princess when theirs nothing to connect them?, especially meeting a "human" at that?. While its still a little unclear how Demirugre was getting his Intel and not properly explained, He did have shadow demons working for him. So you can pull out a few theories based on that. You know, demons that hide in shadows undetected ? . We cant say Climb" was the person forbidden to be killed because it never revealed it. We however can "suspect" it was him cause when Shaltear bailed after seeing him when she was certainly going to kill Brain. Then when you looked at the princesses motive to get climb killed by sending him off in the most dangerous places. She wanted it, so she could take advantage and nurture him through the resurrection. I dont know how you come to the conclusion Demirugre contacted and negotiated with the princess on such disadvantageous grounds to Narazrick. If you recalled correctly, The last thing Ainz and Nararick wants is to "leak" information about them so openly. They were even considering mind alteration on Tsure, at worst just killing her. I dont see Demirugre intending to reveal Narazick so openly to the royals of the kingdom. Especially when an unknown world item user is considered to be out there close.

It appeared to me the princess got outplayed. Demirugre was always 1 step ahead. Battle of wits you could call it. Testing the princess or royalty of the kingdom could of even had been part of the plan :/ Probably. Well do you really think Demirugre is the type that would just barge in one night and demand negotiation with the princess ? With no trust ? when he hasnt even been there a day ^_^

ps- Well I just laugh at the idea, Demirugre would of showed up at the princesses door, then get invited in for tea and have discussions.
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Old 2018-04-15, 07:58   Link #480
Kuroageha
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Wrong, Demiurge at first was making a show for Moon until he decided to go to the warehouse district which.
Where that info came from so fast?
And if you take Raeven and Second Prince words as truth then Renner is indeed the only one with such power despite the lack of resources that could pull things like that off.

Demiurge isn't human but a devil and the princess may she be human species she is akin to a monster who would with no hesitation throw the kingdom away for the sake of her goals.
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