One Piece - Chapter 842 [manga]

[marvelB]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

It will only be over when Toriko crosses over and eats ALL the biscuits

And then Luffy will gain a gourmet cell/luck power up that will give him such an insane boost in power that a single punch of his can stretch across the ENTIRE planet.... multiple times in a row.


On a more serious note.... I dunno if anyone else brought it up yet, but I think it's really impressive that Luffy lasted so long against Cracker, even if most of those 11 hours took place off-screen. It really goes to show that he's really on his way to reaching the level of the big leagues, who were also capable of lasting ridiculously long in fights (recall that Ace vs. Jinbei lasted a few days, and Aokiji fought Akainu for TEN STRAIGHT DAYS at Punk Hazard). So while not as extreme as the aforementioned examples, I do think it's quite amazing that Luffy lasted nearly a whole half a day against one of an emperor's top officers. Makes me wonder if Luffy will have literal week-long battles against major foes around the series' climax.... at least, I don't expect him to fight with Akainu or Blackbeard for over a century like those giants at Little Garden, heh.

[P_Dezz]

Originally Posted by marvelB

Ace vs. Jinbei lasted a few days, and Aokiji fought Akainu for TEN STRAIGHT DAYS at Punk Hazard).

Ace got wrecked by Blackbeard quite easily, and got a whole punched through him by Akainu, both occurrences probably took less than 5 minutes in OP time.

[Ramero]

Originally Posted by marvelB

And then Luffy will gain a gourmet cell/luck power up that will give him such an insane boost in power that a single punch of his can stretch across the ENTIRE planet.... multiple times in a row.


On a more serious note.... I dunno if anyone else brought it up yet, but I think it's really impressive that Luffy lasted so long against Cracker, even if most of those 11 hours took place off-screen. It really goes to show that he's really on his way to reaching the level of the big leagues, who were also capable of lasting ridiculously long in fights (recall that Ace vs. Jinbei lasted a few days, and Aokiji fought Akainu for TEN STRAIGHT DAYS at Punk Hazard). So while not as extreme as the aforementioned examples, I do think it's quite amazing that Luffy lasted nearly a whole half a day against one of an emperor's top officers. Makes me wonder if Luffy will have literal week-long battles against major foes around the series' climax.... at least, I don't expect him to fight with Akainu or Blackbeard for over a century like those giants at Little Garden, heh.

I guess Luffy got less tired because his energy was more recuperating than wasting it, eating can gain some energy just like how Luffy was be able to blow away Cracker effortlessly with Tankman. My guess is because Luffy's energy was way too overwhelming that even Cracker's sword cannot do anything against Luffy since he always eat and eat in the last 11 hours. You can see his stamina is not much drained unlike Cracker since he always eat to recuperate it.

Originally Posted by P_Dezz

Ace got wrecked by Blackbeard quite easily, and got a whole punched through him by Akainu, both occurrences probably took less than 5 minutes in OP time.

Blackbeard's power was DF denial so obvious Ace loses in short time while fighting Jinbe he use his might to take Jinbe head on.

[ZGoten]

Originally Posted by P_Dezz

Ace got wrecked by Blackbeard quite easily, and got a whole punched through him by Akainu, both occurrences probably took less than 5 minutes in OP time.

It really depends on who's fighting who. Generally, the more equal fighters are, the more likely it is that the fight is going to take a while. Akainu is a lot stronger than Ace was, especially since he was in poor physical and mental condition at the time. The fight against Blackbeard is more interesting on that front, since both fighters were pretty equal for a while. But I guess the duration of fights also heavily depend on the different types of fighters. Ace was strong, but from what we know, he relied on his devil fruit a lot, which against, Blackbeard and his Logia is a huge gamble.

Ace probably knew armament and observation haki to a degree. We can't know for sure, since back then the use of haki wasn't made explicit. But we can make an educated guess based on his general prowess. It is rather likely that a fighter of his caliber would know at least the basics of haki. However, those basic haki skills, if they existed, were likely not enough to make up for the difference.

Jimbei vs Ace makes sense. There's nothing broken about Jimbei that would negate Ace's powers and he is generally just a really strong dude. I can see him and Ace being pretty much equal. They'd probably fit right into the post timeskip monster trio. Where exactly, I don't know, but probably between Zoro and Sanji.

[marvelB]

Originally Posted by P_Dezz

Ace got wrecked by Blackbeard quite easily, and got a whole punched through him by Akainu, both occurrences probably took less than 5 minutes in OP time.

Well yeah, but both those guys were superior veterans compared to Ace (even if it wasn't demonstrated right away in Blackbeard's case). I was talking more about battles between people around the same level. Notice THOSE fights tend to last a lot longer.... to the extent that they stretch into literal days (or years, in the case of the Little Garden giants). That's why I say it's pretty impressive that Luffy can last nearly half a day against Cracker.... it shows that he really is beginning to approach the level of those top-class experts. Not that he still doesn't have a tall mountain to climb, though....

[P_Dezz]

Originally Posted by marvelB

Well yeah, but both those guys were superior veterans compared to Ace (even if it wasn't demonstrated right away in Blackbeard's case). I was talking more about battles between people around the same level. Notice THOSE fights tend to last a lot longer.... to the extent that they stretch into literal days (or years, in the case of the Little Garden giants). That's why I say it's pretty impressive that Luffy can last nearly half a day against Cracker.... it shows that he really is beginning to approach the level of those top-class experts. Not that he still doesn't have a tall mountain to climb, though....

I think had Luffy gone all out against BB in ID, he would have fared better than Ace did. Ace really was a weakling and only had a high bounty cause of his blood. But we'll see what kind of fight Luffy has when he's not as pressed for time.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by marvelB

That's why I say it's pretty impressive that Luffy can last nearly half a day against Cracker.... it shows that he really is beginning to approach the level of those top-class experts. Not that he still doesn't have a tall mountain to climb, though....

TBF it's partly because Nami wet the crackers. I think Oda made a pretty big point of Luffy needing her help. If Luffy couldn't eat the weak crackers, he would have had to battle 11 hours worth of tough ones. It's a pretty big weakness for Cracker to have though.

[ZGoten]

I don't think Blackbeard was much stronger than Ace when they fought each other. His crew is the evil equivalent to the Strawhats; they're still growing in power at an extraordinary rate. Before the Timeskip, Blackbeard was nowhere near top level. The reason the fight didn't take that long, like I said, was because Ace relied too much on his DF, and Blackbeard denied it with his own.

[marvelB]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

TBF it's partly because Nami wet the crackers. I think Oda made a pretty big point of Luffy needing her help. If Luffy couldn't eat the weak crackers, he would have had to battle 11 hours worth of tough ones. It's a pretty big weakness for Cracker to have though.

True, Nami does share credit for backing up her captain, but Luffy was still the one who did the brunt of the work in taking down Cracker, so I still stand by what I said. And technically, Cracker had the Homies on his side despite Nami taking control over them with the vivrecard, so it sorta kinda evens out.... maybe?

Originally Posted by P_Dezz

I think had Luffy gone all out against BB in ID, he would have fared better than Ace did. Ace really was a weakling and only had a high bounty cause of his blood. But we'll see what kind of fight Luffy has when he's not as pressed for time.

In regards to the bold.... I'd definitely say that Ace was far from weak. He wouldn't have become one of Whitebeard's commanders if he weren't. Let's also not forget that Oda even established in Luffy's flashback that both Ace and Sabo (both of whom were stronger than Luffy) were roughly equal to each other. So he definitely had strength..... I think the problem was that Ace lacked experience. He was rash and full of self-doubt (which, yes, is due in part to his blood), and I personally think THAT was a large contributing factor to his downfall. He also didn't seem to get proper training in wielding haki like Luffy and Sabo did, so that could also have been an issue. But in the end, I'd still mainly chalk it up to inexperience being Ace's biggest weakness. He was basically a hotshot prodigy who ended up biting way more than he could chew....

[bonsobon]

You know, when Cracker first fought Luffy and appeared to be knocked out, I remember all the commotion about him being weak and not living up to his position as a commander of an Emperor when he was first introduced. Now that the fight between them appears to be over the question needs to be asked:

Did Cracker live up to the billing of being a commander of an Emperor?

[P_Dezz]

Originally Posted by marvelB

True, Nami does share credit for backing up her captain, but Luffy was still the one who did the brunt of the work in taking down Cracker, so I still stand by what I said. And technically, Cracker had the Homies on his side despite Nami taking control over them with the vivrecard, so it sorta kinda evens out.... maybe?






In regards to the bold.... I'd definitely say that Ace was far from weak. He wouldn't have become one of Whitebeard's commanders if he weren't. Let's also not forget that Oda even established in Luffy's flashback that both Ace and Sabo (both of whom were stronger than Luffy) were roughly equal to each other. So he definitely had strength..... I think the problem was that Ace lacked experience. He was rash and full of self-doubt (which, yes, is due in part to his blood), and I personally think THAT was a large contributing factor to his downfall. He also didn't seem to get proper training in wielding haki like Luffy and Sabo did, so that could also have been an issue. But in the end, I'd still mainly chalk it up to inexperience being Ace's biggest weakness. He was basically a hotshot prodigy who ended up biting way more than he could chew....

Ace was pretty weak for a commander who hung out in the NW. Luffy immediately realized he was out of his league at the war, and decided not to go 1 on 1 with anybody. Luffy realized that he needed to get stronger in order to protect his crew, and continue his journey. Ace i think got a little too comfortable, hanging with WB.

[Ramero]

I wonder if Chopper and Carrot could ended up at Big Mom's tea party after they manage to make Brulee use her power to flush them out from window. I hope there is mirror on tea party which can give Sanji quite a surprise that Luffy and his crew arrived to rescue him.

Bad enough Zoro isn't going but i guess Zoro could already subduing samurai that opposing him.

[FlareKnight]

I'm not sure about the idea of Ace being weak. I think he was just too reckless. Ran off on his own and took on Blackbeard along with his crew. Running into a monster who got a good shot in on Shanks, who had unnatural durability, and a power that could negate the fruit he had come to rely on. I don't think any of the commanders for WB sent off for a 1v1 fight would have actually won.

Anyways back to the present....good effort by Luffy against a tricky opponent. It did take some help to come out on top.

Curious to see how things unfold in this situation. Also kind of too bad Zoro is off doing something else, would have liked another big fight for him during all of this.

[Ramero]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

I'm not sure about the idea of Ace being weak. I think he was just too reckless. Ran off on his own and took on Blackbeard along with his crew. Running into a monster who got a good shot in on Shanks, who had unnatural durability, and a power that could negate the fruit he had come to rely on. I don't think any of the commanders for WB sent off for a 1v1 fight would have actually won.

Anyways back to the present....good effort by Luffy against a tricky opponent. It did take some help to come out on top.

Curious to see how things unfold in this situation. Also kind of too bad Zoro is off doing something else, would have liked another big fight for him during all of this.

Zoro will be on fire if he saw Sanji's family.. You know how Zoro vs Sanji often happens a lot XD i'm sure if Zoro vs Sanji happens on whole cake island he can ragely defeat Ichiji and Niji if they tease Zoro to where he can cut them.

I prefer Zoro was like subduing samurais that want to recover Murasame.