Code Geass R2 - Overall Series Impressions & Total Series Rating

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Considering their time apart, did Nunnally really have any reason to not trust Schneizel?

The question is, why should she trust Schneizel over the kind brother that has been with her through everything and has always protected her, who is the person she prays to do give her strength.

She questioned Schneizel if he really did move the citizens before turning a city into a crater. What is Schneizel going to say? Go back on what he told her? If she was not sure enough of him to ask then it is stupid to just take Schneizel's word at face value.

@ Charred Knight

I don't think you understand what we are really debating here. We are talking about Nunally and not whether the world's leaders are incompetent.

[Rising Dragon]

Nunnally seemed to be on good terms with all of her surviving siblings, and did not have any reason not to trust Schneizel in the first place. Plus, during R2, after that phone call, she knew something was wrong with Lelouch, that something strange was going on, because for whatever reason, Lelouch had to hide from her and pretend they weren't related or that they knew each other.

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

The question is, why should she trust Schneizel over the kind brother that has been with her through everything and has always protected her, who is the person she prays to do give her strength.

She questioned Schneizel if he really did move the citizens before turning a city into a crater. What is Schneizel going to say? Go back on what he told her? If she was not sure enough of him to ask then it is stupid to just take Schneizel's word at face value.

@ Charred Knight

I don't think you understand what we are really debating here. We are talking about Nunally and not whether the world's leaders are incompetent.

Nunnaly has absolutly no reason not to trust Schneizel, as he isn't the one brainwashing hundreds of people, and the fact that Schneizel was on good terms with all of his siblings before Euphemia died. Keep in mind that Euphemia's death changed Schneizel like it did Lelouch, and Suzaku, the Schneizel Nunnaly knew as a child died when Euphemia died.

Also remember that most of the Britannian royal family has been protrayed as relativly close in the anime.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Nunnally seemed to be on good terms with all of her surviving siblings, and did not have any reason not to trust Schneizel in the first place. Plus, during R2, after that phone call, she knew something was wrong with Lelouch, that something strange was going on, because for whatever reason, Lelouch had to hide from her and pretend they weren't related or that they knew each other.

Except that the core problem I have with that scenario is that, who does she trust more? Her brother or Schneizel? Nunally is arguably (I'd laugh given what happened but meh) the person that understands the kind person that her brother is. On one hand she has Lelouch who has been with her through everything in her life, he cared for her when she was blinded and crippled and they were thrown into a country they knew nothing about. On the other is Schneizel who she has not seen in however many years.

You keep dodging the point that, it is not that she is on bad relations with her other siblings, it is that she should know Lelouch, someone who has been with her through the best and worst times of their lives, who never abandoned her, who took care of her when even their father abandoned her, it is that she should trust that Lelouch over Schneizel.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

Except that the core problem I have with that scenario is that, who does she trust more? Her brother or Schneizel? Nunally is arguably (I'd laugh given what happened but meh) the person that understands the kind person that her brother is. On one hand she has Lelouch who has been with her through everything in her life, he cared for her when she was blinded and crippled and they were thrown into a country they knew nothing about. On the other is Schneizel who she has not seen in however many years.

You keep dodging the point that, it is not that she is on bad relations with her other siblings, it is that she should know Lelouch, someone who has been with her through the best and worst times of their lives, who never abandoned her, who took care of her when even their father abandoned her, it is that she should trust that Lelouch over Schneizel.

You completely ignored my point of how Lelouch had inadvertently given her reasons to doubt him, while Schneizel, by and by, had not. To answer your question, at the time, Nunnally trusted Schneizel more than she did Lelouch.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

You completely ignored my point of how Lelouch had inadvertently given her reasons to doubt him, while Schneizel, by and by, had not. To answer your question, at the time, Nunnally trusted Schneizel more than she did Lelouch.

That was because I thought it was obvious that what Nunally questioned was not Lelouch, but the strained relationship that seems to be apparent between him and Suzaku. Which is apparent as her thoughts were why did they lie to each other and her. She was still thinking of her brother fondly, evidenced by her conversations with Kallen, and Schneizel had just nuked a city, an act she was leery of and voiced her concerns for the civilians. From Schneizel's answer, he had already fed her some bs about evacuating everyone but she still asked him again, an act that was not necessary if she did trust Schneizel that much.

And the question is the how and why. That is just a statement, and frankly I do not see Nunally trusting Schneizel to the extent of trusting him over Lelouch based on her (supposed) insight upon Lelouch's character (remember, Nunally was supposed to be an intuitive person evidenced by her exchange with Rohmeiyer and her decision to use her hand lie detector powers on Rohmeiyer.) from living with him all her life and depended on him and was protected by him during that time. Once again, it is not about anyone giving her a reason not to trust them but that Lelouch is clearly someone that is more important and close to her then anyone else. If there is one thing that CG has been very consistent of in portraying is the closeness of Lelouch and Nunally in their sibling relationship and the importance that they mean to each other.

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

My keen detective senses tells me that there may be some bitterness in your post. Leaving aside whether I agree with your views of the aforementioned characters, punishment is not always metted out to all those that deserved it.

The point is, I believe, that Lelouch went the way he did because he actively sought atonement and to be punished while the others did not. It shows the kind of person Lelouch was, someone who not only saw the faults in others but can also see them in himself. His kindness caused him to seek that redemption through death.

You can also look at it another way, in that Lelouch himself was one of the main instigators that set in motion the events that lead to many of those tragedies either directly or indirectly and he is taking into himself all the hatred and sins spawned from his actions and being punished for them in place of all the others. Kinda ironic considering that martyrdom is what Suzaku sought.



The problem I have with this is that Nunally, with all her truth powers allowed herself to believe Schneizel, especially after the guy nuked an entire city to basically show Lelouch he was serious. Even if what he told Nunally about evacuating everyone is true, he still ruined their lives economically. Imagine being forced to flee with essentially nothing to your name and then having the place where you lived, where your livelyhood is was turned into a giant crater. Not to mention that Nunally believed Schneizel over the person that took care of her and supported her when they were driven from their former lives because she was blinded and crippled.

I wouldn't exactly call a man who brainwashes hundreds of innocent people, kills thousands more, and whatever the hell he did during the two months kind. Frankly I can't believe that to get the reception he got, all he did was threaten the world, and behave like a stereotypical overlord.

Deep down Lelouch was a good person but he did horrible things and was punished for it. Schneizel, most of the Britannian Royal Family, and Suzaku where also punished for their actions, as most of the Britannian Royal Family (including Schneizel) are brainwashed slaves, and Suzaku can never go outside with his Zero Mask on, and can never know love because of it.

Did they die? No, but frankly you can consider death to be an easy escape, as people like Schneizel can never think for himself again, and frankly can't even be called really alive anymore, his simply a breathing puppet.

[Spectacular_Insanity]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

And the question is the how and why. That is just a statement, and frankly I do not see Nunally trusting Schneizel to the extent of trusting him over Lelouch based on her (supposed) insight upon Lelouch's character (remember, Nunally was supposed to be an intuitive person evidenced by her exchange with Rohmeiyer and her decision to use her hand lie detector powers on Rohmeiyer.) from living with him all her life and depended on him and was protected by him during that time. Once again, it is not about anyone giving her a reason not to trust them but that Lelouch is clearly someone that is more important and close to her then anyone else. If there is one thing that CG has been very consistent of in portraying is the closeness of Lelouch and Nunally in their sibling relationship and the importance that they mean to each other.

Which, I might add, is practically the basis of the entire plot of Code Geass.

The real problem with Nunnally is that she was fairly gullible and easy to manipulate, at least compared to most of the older characters. That's why Schneizel was able to get away with his lies about Pendragon Palace and the capital being evacuated.

[Spring_sakura111]

Look here.
The last episode's title for season one was called "Zero"
The last episode for season 2 was called " Re:"
What if there was a season 3 and the last episode was called "Quiem"

LOL!

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity

Which, I might add, is practically the basis of the entire plot of Code Geass.

The real problem with Nunnally is that she was fairly gullible and easy to manipulate, at least compared to most of the older characters. That's why Schneizel was able to get away with his lies about Pendragon Palace and the capital being evacuated.

Which runs contrary to what they showed us about Nunally earlier in that very same season. If she really was that gulible and easy to manipulate, she would have not seen through Rohmeiyer and used her blind girl truth powers on her.

[bladeofdarkness]

shnizel shot down everything lelouch did during the show in 4 minutes
he's just really good at the game
and lelouch's actions didnt help non

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

I wouldn't exactly call a man who brainwashes hundreds of innocent people, kills thousands more, and whatever the hell he did during the two months kind. Frankly I can't believe that to get the reception he got, all he did was threaten the world, and behave like a stereotypical overlord.

Deep down Lelouch was a good person but he did horrible things and was punished for it. Schneizel, most of the Britannian Royal Family, and Suzaku where also punished for their actions, as most of the Britannian Royal Family (including Schneizel) are brainwashed slaves, and Suzaku can never go outside with his Zero Mask on, and can never know love because of it.

Did they die? No, but frankly you can consider death to be an easy escape, as people like Schneizel can never think for himself again, and frankly can't even be called really alive anymore, his simply a breathing puppet.

We are talking what got Nunally initially to believe Lelouch over Schneizel. And as you said deep down Lelouch was a good and kind person, something that Nunally should have been fully aware of, and we are not talking about who deserves to die. -.-

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

I wouldn't exactly call a man who brainwashes hundreds of innocent people, kills thousands more, and whatever the hell he did during the two months kind.

That's why I prefer "too good for this world". ;P
But it's interesting that there are so many people who seem to think that Lelouch deserved to be punished.
I, on the other hand, don't see the point in a punishment for him - other than that it was an important part of his personal happy ending.
Just like it was vital for Suzaku. If he and Lelouch hadn't been "punished", he would have continued to look for a way to "atone for his sins".
But other than that?
If it wasn't for Zero Requiem, no one would have gained anything from Lelouch getting punishment.

I think it was happiness he truly deserved. And he found it in Zero Requiem, which might not be as good as getting a chance to go back and correct all his mistakes (and discover true happiness without having to die for it), but is more than enough for him.
*sighs wistfully* Did I mention that it was the saddest happy ending I've ever seen?
Oh well. To me, Lelouch is the most amazing fictional character of all. Because he's flawed, but (unlike Clovis) always finds his way again.

[Attenborough Cortitc]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

That's why I prefer "too good for this world". ;P
But it's interesting that there are so many people who seem to think that Lelouch deserved to be punished.
I, on the other hand, don't see the point in a punishment for him - other than that it was an important part of his personal happy ending.
Just like it was vital for Suzaku. If he and Lelouch hadn't been "punished", he would have continued to look for a way to "atone for his sins".
But other than that?
If it wasn't for Zero Requiem, no one would have gained anything from Lelouch getting punishment.

I think it was happiness he truly deserved. And he found it in Zero Requiem, which might not be as good as getting a chance to go back and correct all his mistakes (and discover true happiness without having to die for it), but is more than enough for him.
*sighs wistfully* Did I mention that it was the saddest happy ending I've ever seen?
Oh well. To me, Lelouch is the most amazing fictional character of all. Because he's flawed, but (unlike Clovis) always finds his way again.

Ever try reading a book for once in your life?

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by Attenborough Cortitc

Ever try reading a book for once in your life?

Yes.
Actually, I read quite a lot - but thanks for your concern.
I still wouldn't call any fictional character out of a book "amazing" in the sense I would call Lelouch amazing.

[bladeofdarkness]

leto II from god emperor of dune
they stole his idea for zero-r

[Knight Of Zero]

Originally Posted by Spring_sakura111

Look here.
The last episode's title for season one was called "Zero"
The last episode for season 2 was called " Re:"
What if there was a season 3 and the last episode was called "Quiem"

LOL!

Yeah it kinna don't make sense Y the last episode is called re: instead of zero-R

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

We are talking what got Nunally initially to believe Lelouch over Schneizel. And as you said deep down Lelouch was a good and kind person, something that Nunally should have been fully aware of, and we are not talking about who deserves to die. -.-

People change over time, Lelouch certainly did, he stated that he didn't want to use geass on Suzaku to force Suzaku to join him. He lost such feelings when he did exactly that starting in episode 20 of R2.

Also like I said I wouldn't call Lelouch kind, because a kind person wouldn't do what Lelouch did. I would call Lelouch a noble demon, a horrible person that wants to do good.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

People change over time, Lelouch certainly did, he stated that he didn't want to use geass on Suzaku to force Suzaku to join him. He lost such feelings when he did exactly that starting in episode 20 of R2.

I think you fell off track about halfway through this. He didn't want to use Geass on Suzaku (keyword). He never had any qualms about using it on others.

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

I think you fell off track about halfway through this. He didn't want to use Geass on Suzaku (keyword). He never had any qualms about using it on others.

I always saw that conversation as Lelouch never liking to use geass to force complete servitude due to both disgust with that thought, and pride. It shows that Lelouch has been through hell when he does start doing that.

If Lelouch had no problems with forcing people into complete servitude why didn't he do that with more people. Instead of forcing Dalton to attack Cornelia once, and then Lelouch killing him, Lelouch instead forces Dalton into complete servitude, and be one of his generals. Dalton is a whole lot more useful than most of Lelouch's men.