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View Poll Results: Should the British Remain or Leave the EU.
Remain 24 55.81%
Leave 19 44.19%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2016-06-25, 06:27   Link #161
SaintessHeart
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Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
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Old 2016-06-25, 06:31   Link #162
Kakurin
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Originally Posted by Loremaster View Post
*snip*
You are lying to yourself if you think that the majority of the voters thought and reasoned like you, that fears of immigration and the loss of national identity wasn't a major factor in driving a lot of people into the leave camp. It was - like so often when people vote on controversial topics - an issue of emotion instead of moderation. The same kind of emotional attitude that drove a slight Swiss majority in 2014 to accept the initiative against mass immigration.
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Old 2016-06-25, 06:45   Link #163
Loremaster
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Originally Posted by Kakurin-san View Post
You are lying to yourself if you think that the majority of the voters thought and reasoned like you, that fears of immigration and the loss of national identity wasn't a major factor in driving a lot of people into the leave camp. It was - like so often when people vote on controversial topics - an issue of emotion instead of moderation. The same kind of emotional attitude that drove a slight Swiss majority in 2014 to accept the initiative against mass immigration.
Erm what.

Quote:
The only stupid English people are those who voted Leave as Protest vote and not without serious thought behind it. I carefully came up with my decision to vote leave based on numerous reasons.
I never lied to myself as I already said stupid English people had voted leave without putting much thought into it. They used it as a protest vote and the evidence of that is rather clear here with the smell of regret like the smell of dung on a windy day in Norwich.

Protest votes are dumb and only adds further to votes not making a difference. But the irony is it did this time around. But it's very sad, rather sad people who voted leave really didn't take this very important decision seriously.

And also very said the Remain side are attacking all the out voters as a bunch of racists.

I just want to make it clear no all out voters are ignorant racists or just clueless whipper snappers.

And that I will never regret my decision, which had been formed over ten long years.
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Old 2016-06-25, 06:51   Link #164
Lord of Fire
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Gotta love all the doomsday scenarios that are popping up now. Seriously, do you people honestly believe this will throw the UK back into the Stone Age or something? Sure, the economy is taking a serious blow because of the Brexit (mostly because people fear the unknown), but I'm sure it will piece itself back together in due time. it might take a year or so, but this isn't the end of the world. And if the EU were to get their comeuppance on the UK for this, it shows even more that leaving them was the best idea. Who wants to be in a union of sore losers?

Speaking of sore losers, A million people have signed a petition for a second referendum. Meanwhile, EU ministers urge the UK to start the exit negotiations asap. It's looking more and more like a tug-of-war between disgruntled voters and the EU now.
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Old 2016-06-25, 06:54   Link #165
Kakurin
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Your previous post insinuated that the majority of the Leave voters were on the same processing track as you, that they voted about "moderation and what was right" and having a "deep sense of morals and idealistic stance" - which is what I was calling into doubt.
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Old 2016-06-25, 07:01   Link #166
Newhope
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I find the remain far more morally suspect than the leave all the remain camp do is throw around doom and gloom and racism insults, it's like little kids throwing tantrums.

And I think thats one of the reasons they lost it just pissed off the voters.
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Old 2016-06-25, 07:01   Link #167
Loremaster
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Originally Posted by Kakurin-san View Post
Your previous post insinuated that the majority of the Leave voters were on the same processing track as you, that they voted about "moderation and what was right" and having a "deep sense of morals and idealistic stance" - which is what I was calling into doubt.
Hmm I did? I guess the fact I stopped halfway to make my cup of tea threw me off a bit.

There's a lot of regret running around and people who didn't vote who are now demanding a chance. A little too late, there is no pity from me for them. They can reap the consequences of their actions.
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Old 2016-06-25, 07:07   Link #168
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Loremaster View Post
You know a single market, the original idea we Brits voted for in the first ref. Not this horribly put together political union who has admitted countless times they wanted a full front union.
The single market always was a means to an end in terms of European construction. UK's attitude is like getting into a wedding party because they're interested the buffet, and then complain that two people are getting married. (Not an entirely fair comparison since it's a party with an entry fee, which the UK didn't want to pay in full, but you get my meaning.)
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Old 2016-06-25, 07:16   Link #169
Loremaster
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I've asked numerous people who had voted in the first Eu ref back then. And they was sold the story of a single market, not a political union. Even if it was a means to that end, they should of been told about it.

Maybe the message got crossed, that it turned out that Wedding with a buffet was actually a funeral with a drinks bars.
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Old 2016-06-25, 07:21   Link #170
Newhope
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Originally Posted by Loremaster View Post
I've asked numerous people who had voted in the first Eu ref back then. And they was sold the story of a single market, not a political union.

Maybe the message got crossed, that it turned out that Wedding with a buffet was actually a funeral with a drinks bars.
Thats what my family said when asked and main reason they voted leave after they voted to enter, the vote in 1975 was sold as a single market nothing more nothing less, but it's been much more than that as the Eu has been slowly but surely been seizing more and more power and giving it to unelected bureaucrats.
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Old 2016-06-25, 07:23   Link #171
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Originally Posted by Lord of Fire View Post
Gotta love all the doomsday scenarios that are popping up now. Seriously, do you people honestly believe this will throw the UK back into the Stone Age or something?
No, but it triggered calls for regions to split from the UK.
The UK is pretty much like the EU itself, it dictates from westminster and represets only people from england.
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Old 2016-06-25, 07:32   Link #172
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Both sides were guilty of fear-mongering throughout the whole campaign - Leave simply appealed to a more basic level of fear.

Britain isn't going to go through armageddon as a result of the Brexit as long as its leaders play the cards right, manage the 2-year transition well, and work on new trade deals with both EU and non-EU countries, the latter of which they were severely restricted from entering into as part of the EU (not that I think they're politically adept enough to do so). Iceland went through worse during their economic crisis in 2008, and yet they recovered after 3-4 painful years.
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Old 2016-06-25, 07:33   Link #173
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Originally Posted by Lord of Fire View Post
Gotta love all the doomsday scenarios that are popping up now. Seriously, do you people honestly believe this will throw the UK back into the Stone Age or something? Sure, the economy is taking a serious blow because of the Brexit (mostly because people fear the unknown), but I'm sure it will piece itself back together in due time. it might take a year or so, but this isn't the end of the world. And if the EU were to get their comeuppance on the UK for this, it shows even more that leaving them was the best idea. Who wants to be in a union of sore losers?.
Might, maybe, probably, possibly. You'll have to forgive me if that doesn't inspire a whole lot of confidence. What we know is that this is gonna hurt. A lot. Another recession is almost assured. Anything after that is crapshoot. I don’t see much pride in breaking my arm just to give the EU a punch in the face, even if they do deserve it.
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Old 2016-06-25, 07:36   Link #174
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Loremaster View Post
I've asked numerous people who had voted in the first Eu ref back then. And they was sold the story of a single market, not a political union. Even if it was a means to that end, they should of been told about it.

Maybe the message got crossed, that it turned out that Wedding with a buffet was actually a funeral with a drinks bars.
Maybe take it up with those that "sold" it to you? We didn't knock at your door thrice to get you into the EEC. It was the other way around.
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Old 2016-06-25, 08:24   Link #175
Draco Spirit
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Originally Posted by DerGilga View Post
Yep, I fully agree. Afterall, yesterday showed how only the announcement of the UK leaving already affected the world economy. So it's totally understandably that countries like China, USA, Japan or Russia have a huge interest in further destabilization of one of the biggest economic area of the world. Because that is so good for trade. With companies in Britain being uncertain of their future in Britan and seeing how the United Kingdom wasn't united at all on this decision, the future of the United Kingdom is also open, which will give other EU countries the sign 'let's do what the British did and ram a big, fat knife into our stomach!"

There are internal and external interest for the EU to continue, and the fact that it is the EU now which wants to kick out UK as quickly as possible further shows that. And given how the EU leaders will make an example to show why an exit of the EU is highly undesirable for a country....

The English did one of the most stupid things imageable. But at least Donald Trump has your back!

Btw, I'm really interested in some British opinions on the future of the UK.
Well I can tell you it won't be till October that anything concrete happen in regards to our new relationship Europe, and that just when things will start, due to the new PM being decided.

There also the distinct possibility that another Scottish Independence vote and General Election may be on the cards, but that depends on the new PM.

I know the UKs voters main complaints with the EU were mostly about immigration with a smaller group finding its lack of democracy disturbing, so I expect the new PM will likely want status quo in most areas. However I also know the EU seems to want to go into 'punishment mode' to stop other states leaving the EU, so we see how things happen in reality, but I wouldn't be surprised if it backfires in there face and just causes the UK to have a stronger trade relationship with none European powers.

Another factor to consider is two years is plenty of time for another European state to hold a referendum, with a yes being on that cards. If the EU decided to play hard ball, then whoever else leaves will likely have a much stronger trade relationship with the UK than at the moment.

On that note if one of those nations is Germany or France, then the EU is realistically over within 10 years.

On currently issues with the pound, its going to recover to a similar position were it was, if possibly slightly lower. Currently there's a lot of panic and uncertainty that's twisting the market, that be over soon enough as most people click things are pretty much as they were before.
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Old 2016-06-25, 09:01   Link #176
Dauerlutscher
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52% voted for crap like this....unbelievable....

https://twitter.com/JillFilipovic/st...26435891724288

Those who voted for "out" will not live long enough with the negative consequences.
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Old 2016-06-25, 09:22   Link #177
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Originally Posted by Kakurin-san View Post
"The British policymakers and the British voters have to know that there will be no kind of renegotiation. We have concluded a deal with the prime minister.

He got the maximum he could receive and we gave the maximum we could give so there will be no kind of renegotiation – not on the agreement we found in February nor as far as a treaty renegotiation is concerned.

Out is out."
Yeah, he pretty much said 'you will never be allowed to join again.'

EU is not merciful union anymore - especially now toward members who have left her.
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Old 2016-06-25, 09:31   Link #178
Kakurin
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Originally Posted by Brother Coa View Post
Yeah, he pretty much said 'you will never be allowed to join again.'

EU is not merciful union anymore - especially now toward members who have left her.
No it does not. Not explicitely. Not implicitely.
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Old 2016-06-25, 09:46   Link #179
Brother Coa
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Then enlighten me, did they said something about Britain becoming EU member in the future again?

All I see is 'Out it out. There is no going back'.

Which is normal as I am not aware that EU even have laws and regulations to allow former member of rejoining again.
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Old 2016-06-25, 09:54   Link #180
Kakurin
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Originally Posted by Brother Coa View Post
They enlighten, did they said something about Britain becoming EU member in the future again?

All I see is 'Out it out. There is no going back'.
Why should Junker talk about prospects of the UK rejoining in the future when they a) just voted to leave and b) have not exited yet?

As I said before, Junker was responding to a question whether the EU would be open to renegotiate upon the renegotiation package agreed upon in February, which was intended to take effect upon a Remain vote, in order to make one last bid to convince the UK to stay. Which in this statement Junker replied upon negatively. The EU won't open a further round of renegotiation talks and won't be open to give the UK more concessions. The electorate of the UK voted Leave, so leave it is.
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