Macross Frontier - Episode 25 Discussion / Poll [END]

[justavisitor]

Originally Posted by Tak

Yep, he is not the man to kiss someone who he is not in love with.

I have serious doubt with that
Alto is not a guy who knows what he really wants...plus they are living in 2059...kissing someone doesn't mean you have to take him/her for life

[Foreshadow]

Originally Posted by justavisitor

I have serious doubt with that
Alto is not a guy who knows what he really wants...plus they are living in 2059...kissing someone doesn't mean you have to take him/her for life

Woah, Alto's some player then, considering he's rejected every girl that's confessed to him at his school .

[justavisitor]

well Micheal the pimp has only one, but Alto has two and it's quality over quantity XD

But Alto definitely has the trait of those male leads from harem mangas--he simply can't decide until the last episode, and in this series, he is even worse than those male leads from harem mangas

That's why I always suspect that Macross Frontier must allow polygamy...if polygamy is allowed and if I were Alto, no way I would let those two nice girls go

[Tak]

...

No, I am not going to take your comments seriously, justavisitor

- Tak

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

I can respect that, but even using charts one can't predict with perfect accuracy how some scenes/situations were intended, the most we can do is interpret it the way we see it.

There is a flow to good stories, which is as what I regard Macross Frontier. You have to build up relations between characters. There undoubtedly *was* build-up for a kind of romance between Alto and Ranka. Episode 12 was the high-point of that storyline, we got basically a declaration of competition between Sheryl and Ranka in episode 15.

The problem is that after that episode, they went completely back on *Alto* falling in love with Ranka. There was continuous significant development on the Sheryl front, but they took away the signs and the necessary development that Alto was responding in any way or form to Rankas obsessive crush. He mentally stayed as the "protector" and never took the mental leap to "possible boyfriend".

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

If you bring up episode 17, that would mean that you're referring to the scene where Alto and Ranka had a meeting in Ranka's bedroom, is that one of the moments where you felt they killed off their romantic relationship? (Honest question.)

Yes. There are later moments which cement my opinion, but this was, like, an elbow from the sky on their romance. Two episodes ago they had this huge build-up of what was basically "open season on Alto" from Sheryl and Ranka. Next episode we get important developments on the Sheryl front but nothing of the sort for Ranka.

Then, in episode 17, when Alto goes to meet Ranka alone, there is *nothing* to indicate that there is any kind of romance going on. Yeah, Ranka makes a "wink wink, nudge nudge" suggestion. Which Alto completely and utterly ignores.

Then they give us a giant focus on Ranka not being an adult yet, with her room full of giant stuffed toys, basically being a childs room.

Nothing happens in that meeting which builds on what came before. And up until episode 21, nothing remotely happens to show Alto having any further romantic feelings for Ranka. Even in that episode there is nothing clear to indicate that Alto romantically loves Ranka. I can absolutely see a deep friendship in that scene in Griffith Park, but no romantic love from *his* side whatsoever.

Instead the focus was on his feelings of inadequacy for being unable to protect Ranka as well as Brera did.

I am very sure that the romantic relationship between Sheryl and Alto entered a more serious side at about episode 16. That did not happen with Ranka, I am sure that we saw a definite loss of romantic interest at the ep 17 mark.

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

I believe this applies to Ranka just as much as it does to Sheryl. I disagree with what you call the "build-down," I didn't see it that way and it doesn't negate the build-up between Alto and Ranka prior to episode 17. I feel that Alto's sudden change in demeanor is being mistaken for love rather than sympathy, sometimes kindness is more torturous than honesty.

The problem with that point of view is that Sheryl and Alto were falling in love with each other *before* Alto knew of Sheryls sickness. There was a huge build-up since episode 15, with him chasing for her in the rainy streets of Frontier, him going back on his promise to never go to his house again for Sheryl, the rooftop conversation, "I will definitely come back for you" ( romantic music plays ).

Klan telling him did sidetrack their romance onto a less desirable track ( you should have seen the dismay in live chat during that episode from Swampstorm and others ), but it does not negate that there was a solid build-up to a romance.

There was no such build-up for Alto / Ranka after episode 15. They didn't do the necessary follow-up on his side. Remember, it takes two, not only one being in love.

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

I agree, wanting to protect someone doesn't always equal love. In the later parts of the series though, Alto was more concerned about why Ranka would do such a thing rather than her safety, and his flashbacks of Ranka during the conversation with Klan were those of his more tender moments with his mother and Ranka, which reinforces my feelings on this subject. In this memory, Alto remembers the moment his mother combed his hair when he was a child which happens to be the same scene that occurred on Gallia 4 between Alto and Ranka. This scene was also labeled as "a scene full of love" by Yasaburo in episode 19 I believe. I think Ranka was still considered a romantic rival even after episode 17.

That is an interesting correlation, if but for the fact that those two scenes were never shown in contrast to each other, which they'd have to be for them to be related. But, wait, are now saying that *Ranka* reminds Alto of his mother?

[DeX-kun]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

There is a flow to good stories, which is as what I regard Macross Frontier. You have to build up relations between characters. There undoubtedly *was* build-up for a kind of romance between Alto and Ranka. Episode 12 was the high-point of that storyline, we got basically a declaration of competition between Sheryl and Ranka in episode 15.

The problem is that after that episode, they went completely back on *Alto* falling in love with Ranka. There was continuous significant development on the Sheryl front, but they took away the signs and the necessary development that Alto was responding in any way or form to Rankas obsessive crush. He mentally stayed as the "protector" and never took the mental leap to "possible boyfriend".

Episodes 13 and 14 were just as significant to their romantic build-up as 12, but I think this is where our opinions simply differ.

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Then, in episode 17, when Alto goes to meet Ranka alone, there is *nothing* to indicate that there is any kind of romance going on. Yeah, Ranka makes a "wink wink, nudge nudge" suggestion. Which Alto completely and utterly ignores.

Nothing happens in that meeting which builds on what came before. And up until episode 21, nothing remotely happens to show Alto having any further romantic feelings for Ranka. Even in that episode there is nothing clear to indicate that Alto romantically loves Ranka. I can absolutely see a deep friendship in that scene in Griffith Park, but no romantic love from *his* side whatsoever.

Instead the focus was on his feelings of inadequacy for being unable to protect Ranka as well as Brera did.

I am very sure that the romantic relationship between Sheryl and Alto entered a more serious side at about episode 16. That did not happen with Ranka, I am sure that we saw a definite loss of romantic interest at the ep 17 mark.

I don't think there always needs to be romantic tension in every scene between a male and a female. For example, I believe that in one of the earlier episodes Sheryl is in a bathing suit and tries to flirt with Alto in which he ignores her just as much. Then there is the scene where Sheryl explains what her birthday present is to Alto, in which she grabs her breasts and Alto gives no reaction what-so-ever (mind you, this is before the revealing of her illness which you obviously know.)

Besides, the conversation between them at that point was dealing with a very serious matter. I don't think it's necessary to have one of "those" moments although Alto is in Ranka's room. In contrast, when Sheryl was in Alto's house and before he found out about her illness, they had their own serious conversation that didn't involve any romantic tension.

Now regarding episode 21, I feel that it was a pretty romantic scene especially if we consider the setting and atmosphere (i.e. - Before Brera showed up .) At this point of the series, I don't know what Alto needs to do to show that he's in love, Blush? I think Alto was past this point. After Alto thanks Ranka in that conversation, he has this tender luminescent look on his face and I can tell you that it has happened to me with my significant other. Unless there is another way to interpret that facial expression, I feel that it was pretty romantic to say the least.

Originally Posted by magnuskn

The problem with that point of view is that Sheryl and Alto were falling in love with each other *before* Alto knew of Sheryls sickness. There was a huge build-up since episode 15, with him chasing for her in the rainy streets of Frontier, him going back on his promise to never go to his house again for Sheryl, the rooftop conversation, "I will definitely come back for you" ( romantic music plays ).

There was no such build-up for Alto / Ranka after episode 15. They didn't do the necessary follow-up on his side. Remember, it takes two, not only one being in love.

I don't know if I could call Alto chasing Sheryl in the rainy streets a build-up, I'd be inclined to call it a turning point. Of course, before he began chasing Sheryl he received an interesting call from Michael that he would regret it if he didn't find the troubled Sheryl (I would agree with you if it wasn't for Michael's call.) Also, if it had been Ranka in Sheryl's position being in Alto's house, I believe it's safe to say that he would have done the same.

As for Alto's declaration, I can argue that he was telling her what she wanted to hear. I seem to remember that in episode 14, Sheryl asked Alto to promise that he wouldn't die (something along those lines) and he responded that he would bring Ranka back. Now if Alto made this declaration later in the series, that means he was paying attention to what Sheryl was saying back then. Alto is more attentive than some give him credit for.

"You don't know what you have until you lose it."

I think this applies to Alto when it comes to Ranka. I would agree that their relationship was beginning to fade but because Ranka is still on Alto's mind (as noted with my comparison of the scenes where his mother was combing his hair and such,) I believe that there was definitely a possibility for their relationship to blossom.

Originally Posted by magnuskn

That is an interesting correlation, if but for the fact that those two scenes were never shown in contrast to each other, which they'd have to be for them to be related. But, wait, are now saying that *Ranka* reminds Alto of his mother?

No, I'm not saying that Ranka reminds Alto of his mother Actually it was 3 scenes, beginning with Alto and Ranka on Gallia 4 (which is where Alto began to see Ranka in a romantic light,) and then episode 19 I think is where Yasaburo labels it as "a scene full of love." Then finally Alto reminisces that very same moment which then follows his fond memories of Ranka. With this, I don't believe it's necessary for them to be directly compared to one another. What I find interesting is that it's possible that it was a way to show Alto's true feelings for Ranka through subtlety.

Just to reiterate, the first moment between Alto and Ranka on Gallia 4 is used to show the romantic possibility between them, Yasaburo's comment of "a scene full of love" is to exemplify what that scene means to Alto and lastly, Alto's memories to drive it home. This is a theory of mine that seems pretty plausible, at least in my opinion.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

Episodes 13 and 14 were just as significant to their romantic build-up as 12, but I think this is where our opinions simply differ.

Yeah, episode 13 definitely, I actually went with the wrong numbering. Episode 14, not so much, IMO, since their interaction was limited to him yelling "Rankaaaaa!" once more.

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

I don't think there always needs to be romantic tension in every scene between a male and a female. For example, I believe that in one of the earlier episodes Sheryl is in a bathing suit and tries to flirt with Alto in which he ignores her just as much. Then there is the scene where Sheryl explains what her birthday present is to Alto, in which she grabs her breasts and Alto gives no reaction what-so-ever (mind you, this is before the revealing of her illness which you obviously know.)

For the scenes you reference, Alto *was* affected by Sheryl showing off in her bathsuit in episode 10, although he showed by acting annoyed. In episode 11, again he was acting annoyed when Sheryl was clearly trying to bait him.

That was actually one of the things which made him attractive to Sheryl, if you care to remember. He was no womanizer. But it was clearly shown numerous times before that Sheryl was attractive to him, he only didn't show it openly.

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

Besides, the conversation between them at that point was dealing with a very serious matter. I don't think it's necessary to have one of "those" moments although Alto is in Ranka's room. In contrast, when Sheryl was in Alto's house and before he found out about her illness, they had their own serious conversation that didn't involve any romantic tension.

The problem is that those were two completely different circunstances. The Sheryl / Alto conversation was deep into them getting real feelings for each other. The whole point of it was that Sheryl was pushing Alto away, since she didn't want to be a burden to him.

The Alto / Ranka conversation came at a crucial time. There had been no follow-up to the happenings of episode 15 in episode 16, so *that* was the time to make hay from the set-up of the last episodes. And, as I said, they let the air out of the balloon instead.

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

Now regarding episode 21, I feel that it was a pretty romantic scene especially if we consider the setting and atmosphere (i.e. - Before Brera showed up .) At this point of the series, I don't know what Alto needs to do to show that he's in love, Blush? I think Alto was past this point. After Alto thanks Ranka in that conversation, he has this tender luminescent look on his face and I can tell you that it has happened to me with my significant other. Unless there is another way to interpret that facial expression, I feel that it was pretty romantic to say the least.

His look was one of fondness. I am fond of my very best friends. I believe I can say I love them... but that doesn't mean I want to *romance* them.

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

I don't know if I could call Alto chasing Sheryl in the rainy streets a build-up, I'd be inclined to call it a turning point. Of course, before he began chasing Sheryl he received an interesting call from Michael that he would regret it if he didn't find the troubled Sheryl (I would agree with you if it wasn't for Michael's call.) Also, if it had been Ranka in Sheryl's position being in Alto's house, I believe it's safe to say that he would have done the same.

The point you are still missing is the one of connection. Good storytelling is not having single scenes with no connection to each other, but a story which flows as a whole. You are taking single scenes and are not applying the context of what came before to them. Your example of "if it had been Ranka, etc etc" is flawed by the simple fact that Ranka could not be easily substituted into Sheryls position in that scene, because her story was not nearly the same as Sheryls.

Sheryl and Ranka had very different kinds of connection to Alto, which is why it is difficult to compare the two. IMO, Ranka as a love interest could only function if there was no rival. Because Ranka did fight only one time for Alto, which was in episode 15.

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

As for Alto's declaration, I can argue that he was telling her what she wanted to hear. I seem to remember that in episode 14, Sheryl asked Alto to promise that he wouldn't die (something along those lines) and he responded that he would bring Ranka back. Now if Alto made this declaration later in the series, that means he was paying attention to what Sheryl was saying back then. Alto is more attentive than some give him credit for.

I am kinda not getting your point here. Can you elaborate on that?

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

I think this applies to Alto when it comes to Ranka. I would agree that their relationship was beginning to fade but because Ranka is still on Alto's mind (as noted with my comparison of the scenes where his mother was combing his hair and such,) I believe that there was definitely a possibility for their relationship to blossom.

Yeah, of course there was a chance. But for that chance to happen, Ranka had to a.) fight for Alto. Which she did not; b.) try to follow up on the things that happened at Gallia IV. Which she did not; and c.) have her feelings reciprocated by Alto. Which he did not.

There simply was no follow-up. Now, we can blame the writers for that, but in the context of taking the happenings of the series as something which matters for the characters actions, instead of the writers actions, the blame has to be assigned to Ranka. And Alto, one could say, but if he wasn't interested and Ranka was, then it is her fault for not following up on what happened. Sheryl continued to push and that is why she was ahead at the end ( well, I obviously think she had it cinched, but for the sake of not starting another argument about that... ).

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

No, I'm not saying that Ranka reminds Alto of his mother Actually it was 3 scenes, beginning with Alto and Ranka on Gallia 4 (which is where Alto began to see Ranka in a romantic light,) and then episode 19 I think is where Yasaburo labels it as "a scene full of love." Then finally Alto reminisces that very same moment which then follows his fond memories of Ranka. With this, I don't believe it's necessary for them to be directly compared to one another. What I find interesting is that it's possible that it was a way to show Alto's true feelings for Ranka through subtlety.

Just to reiterate, the first moment between Alto and Ranka on Gallia 4 is used to show the romantic possibility between them, Yasaburo's comment of "a scene full of love" is to exemplify what that scene means to Alto and lastly, Alto's memories to drive it home. This is a theory of mine that seems pretty plausible, at least in my opinion.

If you separate that from all the other stuff which I mentioned, it kinda does, in a very, very subtle kind of way. But I gotta tell you, if the writers would have wanted the audience to see that kind of connection, I think they would have shown the scene of Ranka combing Altos hair, in contrast to his mother doing that. The rooftop scene would have been the moment for that. But they did not, and the message of that scene was kept deliberately vague, to tug some heartstrings from both camps of the shipping argument.

[DeX-kun]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Yeah, episode 13 definitely, I actually went with the wrong numbering. Episode 14, not so much, IMO, since their interaction was limited to him yelling "Rankaaaaa!" once more.

For the scenes you reference, Alto *was* affected by Sheryl showing off in her bathsuit in episode 10, although he showed by acting annoyed. In episode 11, again he was acting annoyed when Sheryl was clearly trying to bait him.

That was actually one of the things which made him attractive to Sheryl, if you care to remember. He was no womanizer. But it was clearly shown numerous times before that Sheryl was attractive to him, he only didn't show it openly.

Well to be fair, episode 14 did also feature some flashbacks of what happened on the planet between him and Ranka.

As for Alto, wouldn't you say that he was just being himself when he acted annoyed? I mean, before he met Sheryl and Ranka, he was pretty anti-social to begin with (along with his refusal to date any girl.)

Originally Posted by magnuskn

The problem is that those were two completely different circunstances. The Sheryl / Alto conversation was deep into them getting real feelings for each other. The whole point of it was that Sheryl was pushing Alto away, since she didn't want to be a burden to him.

The Alto / Ranka conversation came at a crucial time. There had been no follow-up to the happenings of episode 15 in episode 16, so *that* was the time to make hay from the set-up of the last episodes. And, as I said, they let the air out of the balloon instead.

I don't know if we're speaking of the same scene because I'm referring to their conversation before Ranka's concert in episode 19. Where Sheryl was in a state of shock because of the revelation of her deadly illness. Sheryl was refusing to sing and Alto went to encourage her, and he then told her to go watch Ranka's concert because he was going to fly stunts.

Yes, the Alto and Ranka conversation did come at a crucial moment but that is exactly why I wouldn't agree with having one of those cliche moments in her room, because there were bigger and more important things happening around them.

Originally Posted by magnuskn

The point you are still missing is the one of connection. Good storytelling is not having single scenes with no connection to each other, but a story which flows as a whole. You are taking single scenes and are not applying the context of what came before to them. Your example of "if it had been Ranka, etc etc" is flawed by the simple fact that Ranka could not be easily substituted into Sheryls position in that scene, because her story was not nearly the same as Sheryls.

I understand that but I'm not trying to substitute their situations, my point was that Alto's demeanor would remain the same no matter who was in his house, in my opinion he would have still walked on the soil he vowed never to set foot on again whether it was Sheryl or Ranka.

Originally Posted by magnuskn

I am kinda not getting your point here. Can you elaborate on that?

Sure. Maybe we're speaking of different situations but I was referring to Alto's declaration in episode 24 when he declared "I'm coming back, I'll survive this fight and come back no matter what" (the wording depends on the fansubs of course, but you get the gist of it.) It seems fairly obvious that he was paying attention way back in episode 14, when Sheryl asked Alto to promise to come back and not die in which he thanked her and then said he would bring Ranka back. This is how I arrived to the conclusion that he might just be telling Sheryl what she wanted to hear in episode 24. Don't underestimate a women's intuition because after the magical kiss they have, Sheryl tells him to go save Ranka.

Originally Posted by magnuskn

If you separate that from all the other stuff which I mentioned, it kinda does, in a very, very subtle kind of way. But I gotta tell you, if the writers would have wanted the audience to see that kind of connection, I think they would have shown the scene of Ranka combing Altos hair, in contrast to his mother doing that. The rooftop scene would have been the moment for that. But they did not, and the message of that scene was kept deliberately vague, to tug some heartstrings from both camps of the shipping argument.

That's why they're called subtleties They are left for us to interpret, still I agree that the whole conversation on that rooftop was left purposely vague just for the sake of interpretation.

[Foreshadow]

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

Sure. Maybe we're speaking of different situations but I was referring to Alto's declaration in episode 24 when he declared "I'm coming back, I'll survive this fight and come back no matter what" (the wording depends on the fansubs of course, but you get the gist of it.) It seems fairly obvious that he was paying attention way back in episode 14, when Sheryl asked Alto to promise to come back and not die in which he thanked her and then said he would bring Ranka back. This is how I arrived to the conclusion that he might just be telling Sheryl what she wanted to hear in episode 24. Don't underestimate a women's intuition because after the magical kiss they have, Sheryl tells him to go save Ranka.

Considering Alto had just resolved himself to kill Ranka, I think that's alittle bit of a stretch.
I don't think he's telling Sheryl "I'll come back" and Implying, "I'll go save Ranka". Sure, Alto didn't want to kill her, but he had resolved to if she was helping the Vajra (which was the understanding of the characters at the time). He had prioritized the lives of many over the life of one.

[justavisitor]

Originally Posted by Foreshadow

Considering Alto had just resolved himself to kill Ranka, I think that's alittle bit of a stretch.
I don't think he's telling Sheryl "I'll come back" and Implying, "I'll go save Ranka". Sure, Alto didn't want to kill her, but he had resolved to if she was helping the Vajra (which was the understanding of the characters at the time). He had prioritized the lives of many over the life of one.

I am not joining the argument between DeX-kun and magnuskn, so please don't quote me ...however, in my opinion, Foreshadow just reminded me one of my favorite scenes in MF...as soon as Alto knows there is a slightest chance that he can rescue Ranka and/or he has the proper reason to go saving Ranka..he once again becomes the Alto that I know and go to rescue Ranka and scream her name out of his lung..to me that scene already proves that Alto loves her so much

Offtopic, I really want the scene that Ranka got carried by Alto in his jet suit (or whatever it is called) as my animated avatar...to bad no one answers my request so I have to use the Ranka slapping Sheryl scene as my avatar (saying in fading voice...I actually also enjoy that scene...[run away in fast speed] XD)

[Foreshadow]

Originally Posted by justavisitor

I am not joining the argument between DeX-kun and magnuskn, so please don't quote me ...however, in my opinion, Foreshadow just reminded me one of my favorite scenes in MF...as soon as Alto knows there is a slightest chance that he can rescue Ranka and/or he has the proper reason to go saving Ranka..he once again becomes the Alto that I know and go to rescue Ranka and scream her name out of his lung..to me that scene already proves that Alto loves her so much

Offtopic, I really want the scene that Ranka got carried by Alto in his jet suit (or whatever it is called) as my animated avatar...to bad no one answers my request so I have to use the Ranka slapping Sheryl scene as my avatar (saying in fading voice...I actually also enjoy that scene...[run away in fast speed] XD)

Of course, It's pretty obvious that Alto loves Ranka... Just not so obvious that he loves her in that sort of way.

[justavisitor]

and that, my friend, is where our difference lays XD
Obviously I think it involves with romantic element while you think that is not the case (or maybe you say they have mutual romantic feeling but not as much as Sheryl and Alto...that's your opinion and I fully respect your say)

Oh well, I guess the most important thing is we both enjoy the show...I know I do coz I have many of my favorite scenes in episode 25..and I am fine with the ending...and since I am fine with the ending, I guess I can say I feel satisfied with the whole series...

now if I somehow receive the animated avatar from the scene Ranka got saved by Alto in his jet suit in ep 25, it would be even better than perfect XD

[DeX-kun]

Originally Posted by Foreshadow

Considering Alto had just resolved himself to kill Ranka, I think that's alittle bit of a stretch.
I don't think he's telling Sheryl "I'll come back" and Implying, "I'll go save Ranka". Sure, Alto didn't want to kill her, but he had resolved to if she was helping the Vajra (which was the understanding of the characters at the time). He had prioritized the lives of many over the life of one.

I think you're missing the context in which it was said the first time around depending on the angle you look at it from (admittedly, this is also arguable.) You're right, Alto wasn't implying that he would save Ranka since just as you said, he had already decided to kill Ranka if need be.

My point was that in my opinion, Alto told her what she wanted to hear in that declaration (which like I said, was similar to episode 14.) In episode 14, Alto's response was that he would save Ranka, and Sheryl seemed kind of disappointed at it. It feels like Alto did notice her reaction back then and so this time, he at least wanted to make her feel more at ease, but instead Sheryl tells him to go save Ranka (kind of ironic from Alto's point of view.)

Originally Posted by justavisitor

now if I somehow receive the animated avatar from the scene Ranka got saved by Alto in his jet suit in ep 25, it would be even better than perfect XD

Try to take a screenshot of it and go to the sig thread in the "Fan Creations" section, they might be able to help you out if you provide a source.

[justinstrife]

And the shipping wars are back...

I have a feeling we're going to get trolled again and not even have a true conclusion at the end of the movies!!!

God that would suck...

[DeX-kun]

Originally Posted by justinstrife

And the shipping wars are back...

I have a feeling we're going to get trolled again and not even have a true conclusion at the end of the movies!!!

God that would suck...

Actually, this really isn't bad. I actually enjoy nice calm conversations this time around, no bad blood Just a civilized discussion.

But yeah, I share the same train of thought, we'll all just get trolled again after both movies and I think that's when I'll be leaving these type of discussions in the past.

[Aershelelou]

Originally Posted by Mei19

Why won't Ranka fans be quieter?? Ranka just obtained godly status in the last episode by resurrecting Sheryl and still managed to be Alto's damsel in distress. Ranka fans love that. Everytime Alto tears his lungs out screaming her name and rams his Valkyrie to get to where she is. Hoo boy do they loveee that. Because she can't save herself (but can save others) and relies on Alto to save her and Alto the idiot always does so with passion. I used to observe how loud Nakamura Yuuichi can belt out "Rankaaa" everytime he does so. I think the loudest record I've seen was in episode 21. Then 24 or 25 is a tie. I think. Need to rewatch again.

This post is fabulous and made me giggle
Anyway, I don't know where everyone is on the topic... I got confused seeing wall-o-texts XD
Therefore, I'll be generic. Episode 25 is by far the best one. I always watch it all the time because of the like... over 7 minutes of song. I love music and singing and all of that. Nothing else really attracted me to the episode that much. It was a quick ending imo... and could of used a bit more work... but I love how it ends. It's official trolling of the "love triangle" (grr!) as well. I still rated it 10/10 though because it was pretty to my eyes and even the 10 million screams from Alto calling out Ranka's name sends chills down my spine. Everyone is that passionate~

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

Well to be fair, episode 14 did also feature some flashbacks of what happened on the planet between him and Ranka.

True, but I think flashbacks seldomly provide new developments.

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

As for Alto, wouldn't you say that he was just being himself when he acted annoyed? I mean, before he met Sheryl and Ranka, he was pretty anti-social to begin with (along with his refusal to date any girl.)

I think an active component of Altos storyline was getting coaxed out of that "permanently annoyed guy" persona, which I think Sheryl greatly contributed to. To me, that "always annoyed" thing was a mask, so it is of no great consequence that he elected to show it to Sheryl at such times. I'd be much more concerned if he'd went with his "don't care" demeanor, which he showed to Ranka more than a few times. "Do what you want" is not what I'd like to hear from someone I want to be in love with me. ^^

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

I don't know if we're speaking of the same scene because I'm referring to their conversation before Ranka's concert in episode 19. Where Sheryl was in a state of shock because of the revelation of her deadly illness. Sheryl was refusing to sing and Alto went to encourage her, and he then told her to go watch Ranka's concert because he was going to fly stunts.

Yeah, we are speaking of the same scene. It was another important scene in their romance, because Sheryl was trying to push Alto away, after she knew of her illness. It showed that she loved him so much, because she wanted to spare him the pain of seeing her die.

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

Yes, the Alto and Ranka conversation did come at a crucial moment but that is exactly why I wouldn't agree with having one of those cliche moments in her room, because there were bigger and more important things happening around them.

Yet at the same time Sheryl and Alto found time to have meaningful forward movement in their romance. When exactly is the next conversation between Alto and Ranka which could be considered romantic ( from your side, I made my point before what I think of it )? Episode 21. That's five ( one fifth of the entire series, near the home stretch to boot. ) episodes in which nothing happened romantically from Altos side, while Sheryl and Alto were getting closer and closer.

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

I understand that but I'm not trying to substitute their situations, my point was that Alto's demeanor would remain the same no matter who was in his house, in my opinion he would have still walked on the soil he vowed never to set foot on again whether it was Sheryl or Ranka.

I think that'd depend on the circunstances. I agree with you that he'd probably do that if Ranka would be in a similar circunstance as Sheryl was. I don't see it exclusively as a "romantic" thing to do, but also as a "friendship" thing.

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

Sure. Maybe we're speaking of different situations but I was referring to Alto's declaration in episode 24 when he declared "I'm coming back, I'll survive this fight and come back no matter what" (the wording depends on the fansubs of course, but you get the gist of it.) It seems fairly obvious that he was paying attention way back in episode 14, when Sheryl asked Alto to promise to come back and not die in which he thanked her and then said he would bring Ranka back. This is how I arrived to the conclusion that he might just be telling Sheryl what she wanted to hear in episode 24. Don't underestimate a women's intuition because after the magical kiss they have, Sheryl tells him to go save Ranka.

Ah, I see. Well, you won't be surprised that I disagree completely with the notion that he simply did "tell her what she wanted to hear", since I firmly believe he did tell her that he loved her in a bad round-about matter ( "A man cannot fly alone" ), but I like the way you extrapolated that this time he was thoughtful enough to remember what Sheryl told him in ep 14.

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

That's why they're called subtleties They are left for us to interpret, still I agree that the whole conversation on that rooftop was left purposely vague just for the sake of interpretation.

Oh, most definitely. Kawatrolli likes his trolls.

Originally Posted by justavisitor

and that, my friend, is where our difference lays XD
Obviously I think it involves with romantic element while you think that is not the case (or maybe you say they have mutual romantic feeling but not as much as Sheryl and Alto...that's your opinion and I fully respect your say)

Oh well, I guess the most important thing is we both enjoy the show...I know I do coz I have many of my favorite scenes in episode 25..and I am fine with the ending...and since I am fine with the ending, I guess I can say I feel satisfied with the whole series...

And here I think is one of the crucial differences between the Sheryl and Ranka camps. Do you enjoy a romance where one side is the permanent damsel-in-distress, not capable of stepping outside her sleeping room without having to yell "Save me, Alto-kun!"? Then you can support Alto / Ranka.

Seriously, I think Rankas catchphrase should have been "Save me, Alto-kun!" instead of "Kira!". She certainly said the former one much more than the latter.

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

Actually, this really isn't bad. I actually enjoy nice calm conversations this time around, no bad blood Just a civilized discussion.

I agree. This is just a discussion of points of difference. I am not really expecting Dex to come to my point of view, but I enjoy sharing it and him sharing his.

[justavisitor]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

And here I think is one of the crucial differences between the Sheryl and Ranka camps. Do you enjoy a romance where one side is the permanent damsel-in-distress, not capable of stepping outside her sleeping room without having to yell "Save me, Alto-kun!"? Then you can support Alto / Ranka.

I said you don't have to quote me lol ...anyway my short answer is no..I think your labeling of Ranka fans is completely false

The longer answer is that on the contrary, I find that Ranka and Alto are always helping each other. Alto saves Ranka in ep 1..Ranka indirectly saves Alto in ep 7...Ranka saves Alto in ep 12...and since than Ranka has been the trump card from ep 14?? to ep 21...Alto and other air forces have to depend on her help! And in ep 25, Alto saves Ranka and Ranka immediately helps back by singing and use "action" to encourage Sheryl to sing and help the Frontier XD

I actually enjoy relationship that is helping each other, and I find that element in RankaxAlto relationship...Ranka has been frequently helping Alto and MF in battlefield and yet Sheryl only helps Alto in battlefield in ep 24?? (I am not a Sheryl fan so sorry if I remember something wrong about her) and well I guess I can also count that incident where Sheryl pilots Micheal's plane in an insane manner XD

I don't know why you want to label Ranka fans only enjoy one-side relationship...because it's not!!! I can find that many interesting elements in RankaxAlto relationship and I am sure many other Ranka fans will find a lot more than what I got from AltoxRanka relationship...I originally didn't not want to reply but perhaps it's the time to debunk some myth/miscommunication from Sheryl's camp

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by justavisitor

I said you don't have to quote me lol ...anyway my short answer is no..I think your labeling of Ranka fans is completely false

The longer answer is that on the contrary, I find that Ranka and Alto are always helping each other. Alto saves Ranka in ep 1..Ranka indirectly saves Alto in ep 7...Ranka saves Alto in ep 12...and since than Ranka has been the trump card from ep 14?? to ep 21...Alto and other air forces have to depend on her help! And in ep 25, Alto saves Ranka and Ranka immediately helps back by singing and use "action" to encourage Sheryl to sing and help the Frontier XD

I actually enjoy relationship that is helping each other, and I find that element in RankaxAlto relationship...Ranka has been frequently helping Alto and MF in battlefield and yet Sheryl only helps Alto in battlefield in ep 24?? (I am not a Sheryl fan so sorry if I remember something wrong about her) and well I guess I can also count that incident where Sheryl pilots Micheal's plane in an insane manner XD

I don't know why you want to label Ranka fans only enjoy one-side relationship...because it's not!!! I can find that many interesting elements in RankaxAlto relationship and I am sure many other Ranka fans will find a lot more than what I got from AltoxRanka relationship...I originally didn't not want to reply but perhaps it's the time to debunk some myth/miscommunication from Sheryl's camp

Aside from the fact that "saving each other" is not a relationship, Ranka did only save Altos bacon with her powers in episode 18. Her being the "ace in the hole" did not come much into play, because she ran awaaaaay. <accidental rhyming is fun>

There is no scorecard for "saved her love interest more" to determine who is suited for each other. Relationships are built upon mutual feelings, and as I've said before, Ranka never made that mental leap from "must protect" to "love interest" to Alto.

[justavisitor]

sounds like you are changing tone lol...now you are saying there is no scorecard for "saved her love interest more" and before you were saying Ranka is constantly at the receiving end XD

As I said, Ranka also helps Alto in ep 7 (indirectly) and ep 12 (Ranka stops the mob with my favorite song) ep 18 (as you said) and ep 21 (Ranka sings alone in front of millions of Vajra while Alto can only helplessly watch)..(gotta recheck ep 14 to 21..but that's what I remember for now)...you are right, relationships are built upon mutual feeling, and I feel Ranka and Alto built this mutual feeling in battlefield since they are constantly helping each other

Anyway, that's what I feel...of course I know you have your own opinion...the bottom line is that we both feel good about our pair, why don't we just leave it like that and move on ??