Anyone else thinks that console games are a hindrance to game development?

[Hooves]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Talk to me when consoles have keyboards ...

Does plugging my Xbox 360 controller into my computer, alter a few programs, and play World of Warcraft with my controller count?

I'm converting my computer and my experience on WoW into a Xbox 360 game console that I can type stuff on a keyboard.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

As for your choices actually making real differences in the outcome, that's very cool but it's nothing new. The Witcher did that back a couple years ago (better than AP did, I think).

I loved The Witcher! It has a brilliant storyline. The combat system had an annoying high learning curve though.

Geralt's reply when asked about his two different type of swords was epic, "Both swords are for monsters.".

I like both KOTOR titles, but I consider Sith Lords to be the superior title. I think a lot of people have issue with it because it's so dark it doesn't feel like a Star Wars game, while the first KOTOR has that cheesy-epic Star Wars feel down to a science.

There is a pretty significant plot in Sith Lords, but most people have issue puzzling it out due to the unfinished nature of the game. Play it again using stoney's Restored Content Mod and it makes a loooooot more sense. Plus the game is just overall better with the RCM installed!

It's missing a female character. I always enjoyed playing as female characters.

Speaking of which, if I get a chance to play Lineage II I will certainly play as a female dwarf.

Speaking of RE, the survival-horror genre in general seems to be on the decline. The last few RE titles were not survival horror games, but horror-flavored third-person shooters.

The closest recent game we've got to a true survival horror is Batman Arkham Asylum, but it's more an inverse-survival-horror like Parasite Eve 2 was; the bad guys aren't the horror, you are.

The first RE was damn tough, and makes up for it with its horrible voice acting (which Mikami took note of and added it to Dead Rising : Jill Sandwiches ). RE2's inclusion of a loli young girl adds the challenge - she is as good as dead in hard mode when you get to play as her after getting hit by a dog.

Parasite Eve is a nice game though.

I miss the "thinking" games of past years--the huge, sprawling Black Isle CRPGs like Baldur's Gate II, space/economics sims like Wing Commander: Privateer (thought Freelancer came close, it didn't quite capture the same feel), adventure games with puzzles that would contort your brain (Myst comes to mind).

I didn't quite like Myst in terms of puzzle solving. I hated pure puzzle games as much as jumping games (Mario is an exception).

Dead Space is a good example of modern survival horror. It's a lovely game.

[synaesthetic]

The player character of The Sith Lords (the Jedi Exile) is actually canonically female light-side (while Revan from KOTOR is canonically male light-side).

[Arbitres]

Dead Space is a good example of modern survival horror. It's a lovely game.

Indeed.

Games like Fallout 3, Oblivion, Dead Space, etc etc so forth etc make platforms worth having. Honestly not too many games I want nowadays. The shit going on with the Tales series is killing my fandom for it, and I'm still hoping the DB will be a joinable faction in the next game (again. Srsly, sneaky stealth kills and causing mayhem and malice AND getting paid for it ain't a sweet deal?)

Honestly there are games that are progressive and forwarding to new gameplay mechanics, and others... well, others are just tweaked.

I still feel disdain for bamco's shit with Vesperia, and I honestly think it may be my last tales game if they don't compensate fairly somehow. Then again... I'm fine with being stuck in the past and playing ToS, so w/e.


Whoops. offtopic with game rawrant. anyways... As you were. I just think it depends on whether or not developers and programmers/or the companies are willing to take a daring step forward and invent new gameplay mechanics.

They run through so many storylines fast with roughly the same mechanics, it feels like a waste in all honesty. :/

[Alchemist007]

I don't think there's any question that consoles hold back developers from innovating more for the PC. They're greed filled corporations at the very core. Except maybe Valve.

[Tsuyoshi]

Tbh, games haven't really been seeing any improvements or innovations since the introduction of the Gamecube and the PS2. A lot of them are much of the same thing with simply better graphics, longer game campaigns and whatnot. But a lot of the elements like plotline and gameplay are the same, especially with popular titles like Call of Duty, Metal Gear Solid, what have you. They were really good once before and some of them still are pretty awesome, no doubt, but if you've played the first, no doubt you'll breeze through the sequels. There are some exceptions but most people are making so many sequels because they know they'll buy the games since they loved the previous installments. They'll be more reluctant to buy new games with new things to show for itself because of them.

[synaesthetic]

Longer? If anything, games are getting shorter. The market push for more complex and realistic graphics greatly raises development time and cost--taking funds away from more complex and realistic plots.

[Kaze]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

Longer? If anything, games are getting shorter. The market push for more complex and realistic graphics greatly raises development time and cost--taking funds away from more complex and realistic plots.

As I don't have the time to read this entire thread, I completely agree with this post.

There are only a few games out there with a good plot.

[Random32]

its probably not graphics cutting away from plots, its time spent making multiplayer better cutting away from plots

[Hooves]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

Longer? If anything, games are getting shorter. The market push for more complex and realistic graphics greatly raises development time and cost--taking funds away from more complex and realistic plots.

*Gives synaethetic a 10/10* The recent games I'm buying are just way to short for me to actually get engaged in them...

Dragon Age's expansion was just 10x shorter then the original one.. That is why many of the players hated it, if they could have made the storyline a little longer, then they would have made a perfect expansion, it had a good plot/storyline... But just to short..

There was also Dawn of War 2: Chaos Rising. As said for Dragon Age it was way to short for me to ever get truly engaged into it.

[synaesthetic]

When it comes to RPGs, I find that 30-40 hours for the main quest (ignoring any sidequests, Bonus Bosses or powergamer levels of grinding) is the sweet spot.

Unless you design the sort of game where just wandering around doing random quests is just as rewarding as following the main questline--i.e. Fallout 3. I put a good 150 hours into my FO3 savefiles and only about 25ish hours of it was the main questline + Broken Steel.

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by Random32

rumour says that MS cancelled Console+PC multiplayer because PC players destroyed the console players. proof of input device superiority for the FPS.
though, console controllers is simply better for fighting games.


I heard there was a keyboard for the PS3 or something. not sure.
but I'm pretty sure you can't use it for gaming

on the topic of input devices, have any of you tried playing an FPS using a trackpoint? infinite motion in any direction and the precision of an average mouse is a pretty enticing feature but no one makes a gaming keyboard with a trackpoint and I like my adjustable sensitivity and extra mouse buttons.

That's precisely why I don't like FPS's on a key board. It makes it far too easy to play. The controller of a console on the other gives you the feeling of holding the gun, which I personally find it the more compelling way to play the FPS.

[NorthernFallout]

Seems like I'm one of the few PC gamers here, who'd prefer PC over any other form of consoles at all times, and who still has some hopes for the gaming industry as a whole.

The industry is going through some sort of evolution atm, far as I can see (Console&PC combined). There are some games coming out now that are far from bad, though they are overlooked due to the newest shiniest FPS (COD, MOH) or big flashy RPG (Final Fantasy, *insert asian RPG #45*), so their positive impact is negated. Point is, don't keep looking back all the time, complaining how the "good old days" was so far better than how it is now. Nostalgia only goes so far. There are gems even now that doesn't get as much attention as it should.

Similar to how the movie industry is right now, though it has almost completed its evolution cycle. Some really crappy stuff ranging back from the 2000s, but now we are getting quite some quality.

Anyway, that's my views and I changed it sometimes during the years. This is the one I'm getting more enjoyment out of.

[MakubeX2]

......Besides LBP for the PS3, are there other console titles that are fully mod-friendly ?

Because I'm looking at quite a few interesting mods here which includes one for Fallout 3 that turns it into a full fledge Adult Only title.

[Spectacular_Insanity]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

I like both KOTOR titles, but I consider Sith Lords to be the superior title. I think a lot of people have issue with it because it's so dark it doesn't feel like a Star Wars game, while the first KOTOR has that cheesy-epic Star Wars feel down to a science.

There is a pretty significant plot in Sith Lords, but most people have issue puzzling it out due to the unfinished nature of the game. Play it again using stoney's Restored Content Mod and it makes a loooooot more sense. Plus the game is just overall better with the RCM installed!

I thought KOTOR 2 was good, but I still felt KOTOR 1 was the better game overall. While KOTOR 2 had nice refinement of systems, powers, and overall graphical design (everything about the ship and costume designs felt more "Star Wars-y"), KOTOR 1 just simply had a better plot. KOTOR 2 also suffered from not really being finished. A LOT of content was cut from the final release, and though some people are trying to make game patches that allow you to play levels like the HK Factory, I feel that it was too rushed. And the ending just seemed so open ended that I never felt any real sense of accomplishment afterwards.

And the fact of the matter is, you should NOT have to download a user-made mod in order to have a finished game. The first KOTOR was incredibly dense, full of content and extensive in... just about everything. I just think Bioware screwed up on that one (though they kind of redeemed themselves with Mass Effect imo).

On the real topic of this thread, I think using existing consoles actually HELPS the development of games. As developers become more familiar with hardware, they improve the software design to work within design limitations.

Some examples:
-The Rogue Squadron games for the Gamecube. There were 3 for the Gamecube, and each one made HUGE improvements on the previous games in terms of number of enemies on screen, coop/multiplayer content, and general graphics/gameplay. And this was on the GAMECUBE, which was the lowest powered device out of the 3 major consoles of the time (XBOX, PS2, and Gamecube).
-Halo 1 and Halo 2. Personally I thought Halo 3 was a pile of shit, but that's neither here nor there. Halo 2 made many graphical and gameplay related improvements, all while remaining on the same system, the original XBOX.
-Not familiar enough with the Playstations to give examples, but I suppose the Final Fantasy series might count, though they ARE spread across all 3 sony platforms, I think. In any case, while I didn't like the games for the Playstation as much (I DID like Jedi Power Battles a lot, though), I am more than willing to acknowledge that those games also showed a way of improving over time, despite being released for the same system(s).

I actually believe turning out new consoles too often is BAD for game developers. They then usually are too eager to show off the new system's "improved capabilities", and forget that hi-specs aren't a substitute for good game design. I feel it's one of the reasons Halo 3 sucked as a game. Multiplayer is good to the extent that Halo was ever good multiplayer (take that as you will), but the single player was so boring I swear I almost fell asleep during the campaign. I liked Halo 1 and 2's storylines, but Halo 3 was bad. And I blame that on the XBOX 360 coming out and the developers spending all their time on making barely noticable graphical improvements and rushing the plot and gameplay aspects.

[technomo12]

anyway

i remember a game calld Ragnarok 2 gate of the world was dropped and was replaced with ragnarok 2 legend of the second

its because othe erlier was well FAIL

soo they are trying for a new better redo version

though games can only evolve if consumers and produces were to work together

well i for one would love to the the game in 1/2 prince and Yureka since it uses Holography and virtual space

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by technomo12

anyway

i remember a game calld Ragnarok 2 gate of the world was dropped and was replaced with ragnarok 2 legend of the second

If you are talking about RO2, yeeah the first one was a failure because it did not keep what made RO1 stand out among its concurrence: the freedom to customize your character build Skill-wise AND Stat-wise.

Also the cute style just did not compute in 3D, it worked for 2D but 3D made it utter shit. So now they are back to a style slightly more faithful to the original manwha, as well as the mechanics that made people love RO1.

[ChainLegacy]

Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity

I just think Bioware screwed up on that one (though they kind of redeemed themselves with Mass Effect imo).

Bioware didn't make KOTOR 2; Obsidian Entertainment did. Which is why I have high hopes TOR MMO coming out will be similar to the first KOTOR. Though Obsidian didn't do a bad job or anything, Bioware just portrayed the Star Wars universe really well which is definitely going to be key in the MMO world.

[-KarumA-]

I think that if developers would max out everything all the time that the PC users would be stuck being a new rig every year. Not everyone can afford and wants to buy new parts to match up with today's performances, the industry does not only focus on gaming nerds that build their own station but also teens who play games on example the family computer or who were given one by their parents. There would be overall a loss of profit because people can't run the games and cannot afford to keep up (it would turn things into a very expensive hobby).
I actually think consoles are a good thing.

[technomo12]

sigh i wonder when we be able to experience virtual reality via head set >_<