Ore no Imouto - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[omimon]

Originally Posted by Hypernova

Ayase clearly inherited her parent's politician traits, using Kanako and then throwing her away.

Her sanity seems to drop with every appearance.

You know the saying, "Bitches be crazy."

Originally Posted by Hypernova

You didn't notice? It was the White Devil herself.

Same VA as Meruru, the announcer, and maid at the maid cafe .

Someone noticed:
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/6...1565167544.jpg

so she may still have had a cig.

Totally did not notice that. I guess it's their way of satisfying us anal-fans. It's not much, but it will do.

[Archon_Wing]

Episode's pointless fluff, but good fluff that is better than the last couple-- that OP is great, lol. And we have Yukari Tamura singing so that distracted me. Kirino is Kirino... nuff said. I'll say 7/10

Ayase could be pretty hawt if she wasn't such a crazy, lying bitch. Kana... lol, I feel sorry for poor Bridget >.> Is it bad that I care about a minor character like that over some of these girls?

[HayashiTakara]

How's Ayase a liar? I haven't seen her lie yet O_o

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

How's Ayase a liar? I haven't seen her lie yet O_o

She tricked Kana into a cosplay contest and drove off with her clothes

[Chaos2Frozen]

From the synopsis I get about the Light Novel, it sounds like to me that Ayase would end up being unreasonable and overbearing. Whether that's true or not I'm glad that she's still a nice and decent girl in the anime

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

She tricked Kana into a cosplay contest and drove off with her clothes

Given Kana's true attitude, I'm glad someone was willing to screw her over.

[Archon_Wing]

I'd prefer Kirino over Ayase. No lie.

[Haru~]

"Birds with the same feather flock together." --- Ayase, Kirino and Kana have the same cute faces but with bratty attitude. What the heck. Do middle school models really this bratty? They are so spoiled and full of themselves. Kyousuke should stop being nice to Kirino for once.
There are non-sense slapstick comedy that ain't funny here. Ayase delivering kick and Kana throwing things, and the primary victim is Kyousuke.

But there are lol moments, Kuroneko's slip of tongue, and Kyousuke's "girlfriend".
Still no development. 7/10.

[Reckoner]

This episode, while it may have been fine in a 26 episode anime and if it occurred earlier in the story, is a terrible waste of the little time they have left in this season to do anything significant. Hence why I rated it a 1/10. Normally I may have given it a 6/10 at best.

I'd list my complaints about this episode, but there's hoenstly so little content to talk about at this point, that I have nothing to write. Basically it was pointless fluff that just gave more screen time to her two friends. Kirino was just being Kirino again... Kyousuke again was being a saint. Sigh...

Kurt Vonnegut (Slaughter house 5) once listed the 8 rules for short stories, and I am going to list them because I pretty much agree and think they are very applicable to what is so far just a 1 cour anime (1 cour is pretty short).

1. Use the time of a total stranger in such a way that he or she will not feel the time was wasted.
2. Give the reader at least one character he or she can root for.
3. Every character should want something, even if it is only a glass of water.
4. Every sentence must do one of two things—reveal character or advance the action.
5. Start as close to the end as possible.
6. Be a Sadist. No matter how sweet and innocent your leading characters, make awful things happen to them—in order that the reader may see what they are made of.
7. Write to please just one person. If you open a window and make love to the world, so to speak, your story will get pneumonia.
8. Give your readers as much information as possible as soon as possible. To hell with suspense. Readers should have such complete understanding of what is going on, where and why, that they could finish the story themselves, should cockroaches eat the last few pages.

I feel it is pertinent to go through this like a checklist for Ore no Imouto, but I will go out of order.

Originally the show fulfilled rule (2) with Kyousuke, but as his intentions over the show's long run have become incredibly unclear, I find myself unable to root for any character in this show (Kuroneko? She's not exactly a main character so that doesn't cut it).

This is also a problem with rule (3), as we don't really know what Kyousuke wants at this point. What he stated in the Manami centric episode, is clearly being contradicted by his actions. He also hates his sister, but still breaks his back for her. Umm... What?

Now rule (4) has been quite broken quite a bit since episode 6 or so. There has been no real character advancement, or plot progression since then. This episode for example served no purpose. Kirino didn't change, her friends didn't change or get development, and Kyousuke was again being an idiot without a cause.

Rule (5) is a bit ambiguous and doesn't really apply here. I suppose it's fulfilled that, seeing as we didn't get a full timeline of their reltionship since they were kids.

They've actually half-assed rule (6) seeing as Kirino is made of nothing, and we only got to see what Kyousuke is made of in every supposed dire situation. Father? Nope, she didn't confront it. Ayase incident? She failed utterly. Anime production episode? Just appeared as immature and didn't do anything. Yeah, apparently your main character is made of nothing.

When it comes to rule (7)... I'm not quite sure if they are meeting the rule or not. Instead of trying to please everyone it almost seems like they're trying to enrage everybody with what seems to be the bitchiest cast of girls I've seen in awhile.

Rule (8) is a definite big f*cking failure. Information is almost nonexistent since episode 1 or 2. We know nothing about our two main character's pasts. Explanations for character actions are missing almost entirely. We've also yet to truly meet the supposed main conflict in the story (Kirino and Kyousuke's supposed bitter past). Moreover, we have no real understanding anymore of where they are heading with this plot.

Now backpedaling to rule (1)... They are definitely not using our time in a way that doesn't make it feel wasted. Many of the recent episodes make us question the point of the show. At this very moment, what am I supposed to get from this show? That Kyousuke is a saint above all saints, and is the best big brother ever? Lol, yeah sure...

Basically this show is failing 6/8 rules (Passing 5 and barely 7 if at all). Is this story badly written? Why yes, yes it is. Nothing more to say. I'm basically only going to finish this show at this point because I'm so far in and did enjoy it at one point, but there is no more joy in viewing it.

[Kagayaki]

My take on this episode: Yukari Tamura confirmed (again) for waifu.

In other news, Kanakana is awesome in my book, even when she's whining, bullying children, and throwing things at people. I'm biased because of her VA, but even ignoring that factor, she still comes across to me as mature and good at heart (for a supporting character in a comedy anime). That might sound crazy to some, but bear with me.

So she doesn't like anime. She's allowed to like or dislike whatever she wants, and allowed to express that. If people get offended when she disses something they like, that's their fault. Kanakana speaks her mind and doesn't care what other people think. Good for her. In real life, what she said to Bridget would've been a bit much to say to a kid, and throwing the wand would've been a bit violent, but it's par for the course in a gag scene with comedic overacting, silly music, and anime physics.

Even though she might say otherwise, her actions tell us she doesn't have anything personal against otaku. Even though her friend lied to her and tricked her into being there and despite how she hates the character and the genre, she knows when it's time to put aside her biases and get the job done. Even if she's not a professional idol yet, that's still called professionalism, and I'm a sucker for that kind of thing. She also gets points for having a dream, working hard at something, and taking pride in her skill.


Notes:

Kirino is lots of fun to watch when she's really excited (Kawaii! What is this? What is this? CG? An illusion? Is she 3D? 3D?! Oh crap, I've got a nosebleed.) Despite this, she comes across as an ungrateful bitch a lot of the time, and her beating up Kyousuke is losing its comedic value. If there's a reason why she continues to act that way despite how nice Kyousuke has been lately to her, it hasn't been fleshed out well yet, so it's the writers' fault for not giving us enough information soon enough.

Kyousuke was stylin' this ep.

Bridget's VA is Misaki Kuno (who hasn't been in a TV anime before, as far as I know).

Originally Posted by Reckoner

[8 rules and analysis snipped, go read up above ...] I'm basically only going to finish this show at this point because I'm so far in and did enjoy it at one point, but there is no more joy in viewing it.

In my experience, that's never a good idea. I watch anime because it entertains me, so if it's not doing that, there isn't much point. But hey, to each his own.

I think an entire series is too long to qualify as a short story. If there are 20 minutes of content in each episode, a 1 cour show is still at least 4 hours long. That's like two normal-length movies. I think that if you view this specific episode as a short story, though, it fulfills all eight rules.

When you consider that it's only about 20 minutes long, the characters' intentions and desires are clear over the shorter timeframe. Ayase, Kana, and Kyousuke are the main characters, and at least the first two definitely get development. Kana is a blank slate, and Ayase hasn't really been seen since she agreed to try and understand Kirino. We see what happens when characters are in uncomfortable situations as well. When forced to, rather than try to cosplay herself, Ayase tricks her friend into doing it for her. I covered Kana's character development above.

So maybe the writers could have done better on rules 6 and 8, but that's difficult considering they were constrained by the amount of time in the episode. So it's not an award winning masterpiece, but it's good and I don't feel like this episode wasted my time in any way.

RE: Rule 7 - I loved it and you hated it. Passed with flying colors

[Kamonichan]

This episode was good, but also a little bland. It strikes me as just a filler episode, even though it probably is straight from the LN. Nothing really happened other than fluff. No character development, no plot development, nothing really. I guess we got a smidgen of what Kanako is really like, but that was hardly worth it. A whole episode for a friend who has only made cameo appearances in the series so far? Of course, I wouldn't call this "Kanako's episode," but after getting to the end of the episode, I could only think, "Wait, that's it?" This was fun hi-jinx, but not much more than that. Most fun I had was the eyecatch with "Kate/Starry Night." Overall, pretty throw-away.

[Hypernova]

Found this on 4ch:

[Syntron]

Which fansub group does Stardust Witch Meruru?

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Jze0

I'm not 100% percent certain but I believe the ending art for this episode is done by Ito Noizi (same guy that does the Haruhi and Shana novel illustrations). Someone correct me if I'm wrong please.

*GAG* Ito is a she.
Aside of that, yes she is the character designer for Haruhi, Shana and various VN such like Nanatsuhiro Drops, Flyable Hearts etc.


Just when I thought it was maybe a bad idea that Ayase's thread has been created, she finally shows up again after all (even now, her screentime is arguably low to say it plainly).
Kanako... well, the antics didn't really annoy me or amuse me, since her type isn't anything original: it is by far less of a trend like a certain Akira from a "certain" channel.
Anyway, this episode was sort of amusing, but I fail to see why they introduce it so lately... if OreImo doesn't get a second season, this was arguably close to a filler, even though it does show some "progression" for Ayase, but that's all we have here.

The progression itself is going on a snail pace (not as much as last week though), and I seriously wonder if the last episode will introduce something "conclusive", regardless what the issue will be.

[Kamonichan]

Originally Posted by Hypernova

Found this on 4ch:

Sad but true. Kyousuke is starting to remind me of Love Hina's Keitaro with how much abuse he takes, how quickly he recovers from it, and how he barely even complains.

And I'll be honest, I actually forgot what happened in ep. 9. I've spent the whole morning wondering what took place, and then I remember and thought, "Yeah, nothing really happened last week, either." Still, I liked ep. 9 over this one.

[Saturn Beaver]

Originally Posted by Kamonichan

Sad but true. Kyousuke is starting to remind me of Love Hina's Keitaro with how much abuse he takes, how quickly he recovers from it, and how he barely even complains.

Yeah, that video is pretty good, misses the last one when Meruru/Kana throws her staff at Kyousuke though, even funnier because even someone he only met few hours ago is already hurling abuse at him (also, the staff makes a curve ball comparable to those of baseball pitchers!). And I agree, the number of abuse is really starting to annoy me, especially when most of them aren't really deserved anyway. But really, arguing this point, which is like a double standard considering how much more outcry will be when it's the opposite, has been done long ago. I suppose I'm just not a huge fan of slapstick, if it wants to be funny it needs to be as over-the-top as possible and not too realistic.

Originally Posted by Kamonichan

And I'll be honest, I actually forgot what happened in ep. 9. I've spent the whole morning wondering what took place, and then I remember and thought, "Yeah, nothing really happened last week, either." Still, I liked ep. 9 over this one.

Ehh, I'd say that there's more plot development last ep than in this one, at least concerning the siblings' relationship. In fact, if I'm not told that last ep is the filler episode, I'll probably think the filler is this one. I mean, I suppose there's more focus on supporting characters like Ayase and Kana, but there's not much development there either, and especially none in the siblings' relationship that I can understand Reckoner's frustration a bit. And really, is that really how most middle school girls are? Boy am I glad I'm already out of high school, and that I make it out relatively unscathed without having friends like that...

And yeah, Kirino is being Kirino as usual (at this point, I downright expects her to hurl at least one physical and verbal abuse to her brother per episode) and Kyousuke becomes a martyr as usual. Well, at least this time it's better as he's helping Ayase and not Kirino, and even the abuse is varied from 3 different person. Also yeah, his idea isn't exactly well thought out, but that's par for ther course of him as well.

Best thing is still the Kuroneko for me somehow, I laughed most when I heard the line "The greatest work of art ever to grace the earth at the hands of Man, for 980 yen? What will they do next?" along with her expression. Next ep, we'll be having her and Saori in maid uniform, hell yeah! Hmm, Kirino as maid, looks like Roberta from Black Lagoon will be having competition for most vicious maid ever...

[aeriolewinters]

DVD version should have 3rd-person view of that kick, it's narusegawa-esque.

[MeoTwister5]

After watching the second half I felt the need to watch something violent and manly all of a sudden. Not because it's terrible but I felt like I just needed to wash all of it away quick. It was like watching like an evil Nanoha, more so because it was Tamura Yukari doing it.

On the upside, Ayase's trying/struggling to deal with it and the fact that she was willing to find a way to do it with her hobby means she's more accepting than her prejudices, and Kirino was less of a bitch this time around. It actually looks like she reacts less quickly these days. Whether the girlfriend comment slap was deserved is debatable, but you have to admit that's not something you really say to your sister, a sister you have a strained relationship with of all people. Ultra bratty and probable narcissist Kanakana stole the show and any relative annoyance I might have for any of the characters. As a sponge she actually works quite well. I guess I shouldn't ask myself why Kirino hangs around people like that.

Best part of the episode honestly is Kyousuke not having to take so many bullets this time around. He's finally able to do something nice for Kirino and her friends without having to throw away his dignity to the vultures. And he's doing it not because Kirino asked for it, and not because he's obligated to Ayase, but more like because he does seem to actually care beyond some sort of brotherly obligation he's been spouting for the last few episodes. If he really wanted to be nice to his sister, this is the sort of stuff he should have been doing in the first place, violent kicks and slaps none withstanding.

[ninryu]

lol, Kirino is retarded. and Kyuosuke is hot with his hair back.

[Kamonichan]

Kana was really the only one with character development. Or rather, her character is revealed but doesn't really develop. Ayase quickly shot down all attempts at character development when Kyousuke asks, "So, have you accepted her hobby?" and she immediately replies, "No, not on your life, die in a thousand fires." I mean, arguably she's accepted Kirino as having an otaku hobby, but she doesn't accept her as an otaku. She isn't so "way of the samurai, everyone else must die" as she was in her previous appearance, but she hasn't progressed at all it seems.

Kanako didn't develop, she just made a British otaku, who flew all the way from London specifically for this contest, cry.

[Last Sinner]

Was wondering how this show would be holding up at this point.

Overall, fairly well. I never expected this to be a groundbreaker or something epic. Early on, I had it marked as a 7.5-8/10 series that had a well-aimed plan at who it was marketing to and supplying the moments/features needed to win over fans in its genre. And that is what I still think of it. Certainly it's meandered around a fair bit in the last 5 or so episodes, focusing far more on fleshing out some characters or going for moneyshot moments. But it still entertains overall despite some frustration over the story stalling or going off on a tangent.

Really, if you're going into this series expecting a gripping story or the like, you're bound to be disappointed. This is a series with some quirks and sass and a female lead that is tailor-made to be a tsundere icon. Hey, I have 2 Kirino figures on pre-order - need I say more?

While character development and storyline certainly aren't getting as much care as they should, let's face it - that's not what makes series sell these days. Reckoner's points may apply to short story literature in general or to animes that are story-oriented/aiming to be top notch. They don't apply to this. Because it's a completely different game/market with a whole new set of rules. This is not a series based on story - at least in anime form, not sure what the manga-ka wants to do since only 1 volume was around when this was converted. This is one based on marketing Kirino, as well as her counterparts to a degree.

On your argument, Reckoner - K-ON is very much the contradiction of that format, because despite being the anti of that train of thought as well as cranking Mary Sue style characters, it's raking in the cash big time. Why? Because it's effective at marketing.

And this is the state of the industry. Want success? Market effectively to your target audience. Quality suddenly becomes arbitrary to a point.

Honestly, I think the plan of attack for a series like Oreimo to work is:


1. It's mainly about the female(s) - Make them marketable and loveable (overall),
2. Make sure their character styles don't overlap or clash too much.
3. Have a good opening or ending theme - exposure in more than one medium = attention. Attention = more fans. An OP/ED that fits the series/main character bolsters anything.
4. Keep it simple and slow overall - this is not a genre where making one think too much or get excited often is good. Make the viewer sit back and relax, flake out, enjoy the fluff and decide which figure they want to order first.
5. Have a gimmick with the characters - make something about them be abnormal. That is one of the hooks. Kirino's the anti of the typical anime fan - there's the hook.
6. Get VAs that are pros at evoking the desired effects in the moneyshot moments. This series is sporting VAs that aren't green - they've established what they're good at and they've been put into roles that are suited to them.
7. Have the odd cliffhanger/tearjerker. There has to be tension at some point, even in this genre. But pace it.
8. Always leave a window open for a sequel. If it sells well and has the fanbase, from a pragmatic point of view, you'd be crazy not to continue it.


Things like these are what series like K-ON and Working utilised and yielded the financial benefits for doing so. K-ON was passable to me and Working isn't something I can watch. But I respect the fact they are able to market to an audience and get what they want. Ultimately, that is the ulterior motive of any series/licenser - cut a profit. Making something quality/epic is at the core of any true aspirant of the arts, but the reality is, you won't sell if you don't tailor something to go for what the people want.

So again I say, if a person is going to watch Oreimo on the basis of story and the like, they are bound to be disappointed. This is not what the series is selling itself on. It's selling itself on Kirino and the side cast along with their merchandise marketability, aesthetics, moments that are gold for humour or moe-related reasons, along with the occassional tense/tender moment. Honestly, if the episode really parodying the series itself about an anime being made off a single volume as well as the rushed nature of this series wasn't an indicator to not take this series too seriously, what is?

It isn't stellar. But it does more things right than wrong and Kirino makes for entertaining viewing. I get enough out of this series to feel like it was worthwhile overall, which is more than I can say for most series in its genre. My main quirk at present is what is it that Kirino aimed to achieve out of all of this. Was her brother simply a means to be at peace with her hobby and to be a successful author? Or was she actually intent on establishing that long-broken sibling relationship with her brother? It's been 2 episodes since Kirino said 'the next life counselling is the last' - it hasn't been expanded on since. I'd hate to think they'd leave it hanging in the air for a potential sequel. And Episode 11 looks unlikely to expand on it either since it seems to be linked to what Saori was doing in Episode 9. If it resolves this relatively well, I'll probably be content with what this series accomplished.


As for Episode 10 - cute cameo that was planned well. Kousaka-Ayase interaction is always amusing since it seemed early on she may have liked him before the chaos that erupted after ComiFes. The Fate/Stay Night joke was a good one. Decent revamp of OP animation. Didn't like the latest ED. Custom bathroom descriptions were amusing. As usual post-Episode 5, pushed enough buttons to be good overall. Good, but not great.