Macross Frontier Character Discussion - Sheryl Nome

[Westlo]

You know if ani_d comes in, sprouts some bullshit like she's looking at BleachOD's post from a non biased position and can find no fault with it... I'll lose every ounce of respect I have for her, which contrary to what my posts might say (what can I say, it's my style) and some people think is rather high. I'm was actually looking forward to the time when we're on the same side for once...

As for BleachOD's post.. I must say your interpretations of Alto and Sheryl are flat out horrible, you started to show that in your Alto assessment when you completely missed a point (which is something I'll address) and you continue it here as well.

Alto's reaction in episode 10 to Sheryl's kiss was pity? I have no idea where the hell you pulled that from, that's just an atrocious interpretation of that scene, completely atrocious, you didn't air ball a 3 point shot, you air balled a foul shot with that one. You should stick to the NBA D League that is Bleach because you can't handle the heat of the NBA in Macross Frontier. Let's not kid ourselves, Kubo isn't exactly great at writing romance while Kawamori is a 25 year old veteran with some of the best hybrid romantic classics around in Macross and The Vision of Escaflowne.

Anyway I typed up some stuff on the Alto's reaction to Sheryl's kiss in episode 10 on Macross World a few days ago so I'll repost that here since it saves me wasting time.

http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.ph...dpost&p=625094

Originally Posted by Me from MW

Yes Sheryl making it out to be a joke after she couldn't read Alto's expression just confirmed in Alto's mind that what he said to Michael in episode 8 is the truth. Was something like...

Michael - Do you even know why she's here?
Alto - Yes! She just likes to mess with me!
Michael - Idiot...

I think he treated her kiss seriously in episode 10 but at the same time was wary because of how he thought she treated him... and when she laughed it off well it just confirmed it for him. Their relationship is kinda like the one you see in a lot of romance shows where the lead has an older childhood friend who messes with him a lot so he never takes her seriously.. except Alto and Sheryl are obviously not childhood friends. (please don't make that a twist Kawamori!) but their interactions from 1-12 of the series do build a platform which the show will go back to.

I'm pretty sure I know the direction the romantic side of the show will go, I started thinking that way when the episode 13 synopsis first leaked and episodes 10-14 have imo increased the chances of it turning out how I think it will, as have the synopsis for 15-18.

Look at the way he reacts to her in 11 until she tells him her present, look at his reaction when he saw her trying to get out of her sick bed in episode 12, he was going to try and get his Vf-25 and rescue her... against an entire rebel force of Zentradi.. and he's no female singer capable of doing a Minmei Attack like Ranka....

As for the rest of the post...

Originally Posted by Tsuchiro

Not even gonna bother wasting my time on that long ass post...

QFT.

[TwilightHack]

>> <<

OD has some points that can be considered valid... and other points COULD be considered valid if OD's interpretations weren't just cut-out bits of here and there and outlandish assumptions.

Originally Posted by Tsuchiro

I'm expecting some fireworks in the next 24hrs......

Not even gonna bother wasting my time on that long ass post...

I might come out to play... but I'm still recovering from the multi-thread war I had over on the Naruto forum. It was fun but I'm starting to wish I saved the time and effort to wage a battle here.

I don't mind her ruling the shipping threads on the Bleach forum, but stepping in here to stomp on Sheryl.. a no no. This is where assumptions and personal opinions aren't going to cut it here because there is actual substance to work with.

[ickem]

Originally Posted by Westlo

Alto's reaction in episode 10 to Sheryl's kiss was pity? I have no idea where the hell you pulled that from, that's just an atrocious interpretation of that scene, completely atrocious, you didn't air ball a 3 point shot, you air balled a foul shot with that one. You should stick to the NBA D League that is Bleach because you can't handle the heat of the NBA in Macross Frontier.

I take issue with this analogy, or any basketball analogy when it comes to Frontier . But your claim that it was like air balling a foul shot was a little too much? It was more like air balling an uncontested dunk 2 feet from the rim.

On a different note, I have noticed the the SherylxAlto vs. RankaxAlto shipping war has become a multi-front war with battles occurring in all of the character threads as well as a couple of the other threads. I'm sure the Sherylite Empire will prevail though.

[daimonth]

Thank you Bleach OD for showing us what it means to state the obvious yet missing the key aspect of a persons character so completely really I just can't think of a better example.

Yes she does feel insecure from time to time which is why she push herself to exceed to do the best she can. "I am Sheryl Nome" is both a blessing and a curse in that its the foundation on which her identity is built upon on, the drive to push her to excel. The invincible persona is reason which she push herself to the absolute limit and beyond. She may feel uncertainty from time to time but she does not take things lying down, she will bounce back and keep on going.

She want to fly but don't know how, so she actually enrolls herself to learn flying. Alto wants to save Ranka which evidently hurt Sheryl- She took a breath and then told Alto to lay down his life for it.

As for the malicious part... really did you watch the scenes accurately? First the phone- Sheryl clearly wonder what Alto is doing using the phone in the middle of the shoot when its his turn on the set. By your definition, Sheryl somehow is aware of who Alto is talking to despite of being middle of the shoot, working and and more than 60 ft away. Let's even put that aside, don't you think that Sheryl had every right to tell Alto to hurry up and be mad about it when the entire set is waiting for him to stop talking in the middle of his work? Don't you think its disrepectful to talk on your phone when working? As for snubbing Ranka? Erm... wasn't Alto the one who was being impolite at that time? He was skulking in the back trying not to get noticed. How is Sheryl reminding Alto to say hi to a mutual friend snubbing? What is there to snub about ? Alto clearly explains that he is there because of work, and that is worse than having Ranka notice Alto trying to hide himself in the background without explanation? I suppose if you are an Alto fan you should be mad that Sheryl cut off his escape from having to face the situation.

As for the Exhibit B- Erm... Isn't it more helpful to Ranka that Sherl told her that its a sore point for him and he doesn't want to mention it? Frankly I have problem with your reading of the scene. but even with your own arguement, are you suggesting that it's ok for Ranka to ignore what Alto did for her? just cause the truth will make her 'sad?'
As for the Infinity picture... are you reading the scene correctly? Go rewatch the scene again. Its clearly shown that what Ranka realize is that Sheryl knew about SMS heading out beforehand and yet no one told her till they are all gone and Ozma left the message on her cellphone. She was wondering where Alto was earlier because she thought Alto would be there at the concert as well. In the screen cap its when she realize that neither Ozma nor Alto told her that they are going to war yet Sheryl knew and was able to hold the concert despite of it.

Minor note, the kiss is in ep 10 the discussion about Rankas present is in ep 11.

I like how your logic goes, Ranka wants alone time with Alto. Hence Sheryl should just ignore the fact that She had a chance to fulfil Altos dream for his birthday. Therefore Sheryl should never have told Alto that he has a chance to accomplish one of his dream. Just whose birthday it was... Rankas? (Actually Ranka already had her birthday, Sheryl gave her flowers that fit Rankas energetic image for her birthday while Alto gave her a flyswatter.) Or maybe you are suggesting Sheryl should have told Ranka that her gift wasn't good enough? Oh right, Sheryl couldn't have known there was going to be a better gift... because up to that point Sheryl havent thought of it! Darn maybe Sheryl should have just ignore Altos wish altogether afterall.. Because you know Ranka want alone time with Alto. Sheryl simply gave Alto the freedom to choose which gift he want to accept, how he handles the other peoples feeling its really not up to her. If he want to stand Ranka up that is his fault too. They left at the end of the day, there was plenty of time to arrange things. So isn't it mainly Altos fault for botching it up?

As for the kiss, she want to kiss him, so she did, simple as that. Both girl knew Alto at the roughly same time, neither had a claim on him. Sheryl later on trying to make light of the situation is simply because that 1) she is proud so its hard for
her to admit that to him (traditionally it should be males who do the chasing not females.) 2) He didn't clearly reciprocate her feelings, she didn't want to make the situation awkward and yes there was probably a fear of rejection as well(don't forget Sheryl is only 17 and not use to these kind of situation so its natural she would feel uncertain.)

Her motivation for becoming a singer is that 1) she find self worth in singing 2) She genuinely love about singing, go watch star date again if you havent realized that there is genuine love in jotting down lyrics when she thought them. She even said so herself: She want to sing because she love it.

Yes she was interested in Alto because he treat her like a real person. She only said so herself at 9 episodes ago.

Failed- She brought up the Earring not because she need an excuse to see him, she was simply teasing Alto with it because it was convenient. Actually alot of interaction between them was not shown very clearly but became much clear in the blog entries, such as Sheryl and Alto talk constantly with each other over the phone. The friendly banter they held in ep 11 had simply became a ritual after Sheryl enrolled in Mihoshi. But we'll stick to just whats shown in anime, Sheryl might seem to monopolize Altos time... but really the reason why they are always together is because both of them wants to be. You are delusional to think that if Alto don't want to, Sheryl can make him spend all those time together with her, talk to her on the telephone (as per the scene when they are chatting about her documentary) and came out immediately to meet her in ep 11. Don't forget this is the same guy that dumped his family for flying. Also remember who it was that came to Sheryl of his own will in ep 6.

I do not deny that Sheryl want to spend as much time with Alto as possible, it seems evident. However that does not means that Sheryl is blind to the situation at hand, she understand what needs to be done, what Altos feeling are. This is why she can come up with the 'perfect gift'. This is why she can throw her support behind Altos rescue plan in ep 13. Her relationship is a two way street where they both consider and support their counterpart. The reason why so many people like the Alto Sheryl dynamic is that they feed off each other and achieve something greater.

[TwilightHack]

Damn, it looks like I don't need to come out to play after all. Even people I rarely see here are taking a stab at OD's post.

Anything I say might be repetitive in the end.

Originally Posted by ickem

I take issue with this analogy, or any basketball analogy when it comes to Frontier . But your claim that it was like air balling a foul shot was a little too much? It was more like air balling an uncontested dunk 2 feet from the rim.

That my friends takes the cake.

[mike_s_6]

Originally Posted by Swampstorm

At the end of the day, everyone makes up their mind on their own. So no matter how sound your logic may be, nobody will ever agree with you unless they themselves choose to. A person who is undecided is still open to new ideas, and is also interested in seeing different points of view. So it's your responsibility to present that person with as much information as is needed to enable him/her to reach the appropriate decision.

If you try to convince the person whom you are debating with, you often enough get entrenched in irrelevant side issues, and nobody gains any sort of insight from the discussion. You can't beat someone into submission with logic.

It might sound like a rather limited approach, but that's just the practical reality of the situation. It's better to put your energy where it's most useful.

In that case, I'd swap your "people who are undecided" with "people who are open-minded"

[Westlo]

I started reading daimonth's post and that music they play in shows/cartoons when a home run is hit in slow motion started up and didn't finish until I completed his post, no lie!

[Swampstorm]

Originally Posted by mike_s_6

In that case, I'd swap your "people who are undecided" with "people who are open-minded"

Well, that requires that we judge them.

I didn't come up with any of this, but it seems to work, so I've stuck by it. If you find the overall framework to be useful, feel free to modify it as you see fit.

[cheesie]

Nice write-up, swampstorm.

I'll comment on OD's posts later, why do you have to post just when I hit the busiest peak.

Originally Posted by Swampstorm

There are four types of people in any "audience":
1) People who agree with you
2) People who disagree with you
3) People who are undecided
4) People who don't care
5) People who wear shipping goggles

Are the ones I like best. Shipping is serious business. People get emotional in shipping. When people get emotional, e-tears will spill and common sense will be tucked away by the delusional power of shipping goggles. Shipping goggles inspire people to build their arguments on the least plausible stage, then try to hold onto them as the build up flings away each pillar of their arguments, and is but a crying mess by the time the finale destroys everything except what they cling to with all their might. I'll feel sorry if it's people I genuinely like though. But because I'm still an ass, and I can smell a hanged man ten miles away, I absolutely love adding salt to injury and this is exactly I will do as there is no other perfect time to destroy someone like Dann from Code Geass fandom, than the time when his arguments will come back to bitchslap him six ways from Sunday.

Carry on with the shipping war, luvs.

Edit: This lady's apparently got a love triangle of her own, DAMN YOU BOYFRIEND AND WII.

[lone_wolf]

Originally Posted by Swampstorm

There are four types of people in any "audience":
1) People who agree with you
2) People who disagree with you
3) People who are undecided
4) People who don't care

The point of any persuasive work is to address the third category.

Hmmm....there's some truth to this. LOL, I'm gone for a few day and come back to witness the fallout of the fireworks.

Not exactly sure where to place myself in that list but while I do admire Sheryl I don't exactly find myself in an area of "overzealous" like BleachOD or even someone like Ani_D.
Those two are the prime examples of what ickem once brought up...the "Precious Snowflak Syndrome." They are about the right age for that too.

I do admit, it's quite entertaining visiting this particular section of the Animesuki forum if only to see fireworks and "fans" who get themselves overworked on their "ideal" character. I myself have fallen prey to that when I was younger.

But yes, shipping wars....I've seen all ugly aspects dating from the late 80's/early 90's so it really hasn't changed much...same age group/different generation - Gen Y and Z are just more opinionated.


--Lone Wolf
一匹狼

[cerrian]

...that was just awesome . I look forward to the Nanase analysis.

Originally Posted by Westlo

Originally Posted by Me from MW


Yes Sheryl making it out to be a joke after she couldn't read Alto's expression just confirmed in Alto's mind that what he said to Michael in episode 8 is the truth. Was something like...

Michael - Do you even know why she's here?
Alto - Yes! She just likes to mess with me!
Michael - Idiot...

I think he treated her kiss seriously in episode 10 but at the same time was wary because of how he thought she treated him... and when she laughed it off well it just confirmed it for him. Their relationship is kinda like the one you see in a lot of romance shows where the lead has an older childhood friend who messes with him a lot so he never takes her seriously.. except Alto and Sheryl are obviously not childhood friends. (please don't make that a twist Kawamori!) but their interactions from 1-12 of the series do build a platform which the show will go back to.

I'm pretty sure I know the direction the romantic side of the show will go, I started thinking that way when the episode 13 synopsis first leaked and episodes 10-14 have imo increased the chances of it turning out how I think it will, as have the synopsis for 15-18.

That was one of the better interpretations of the kissing scene I've seen so far.

[stray]

Originally Posted by ickem

I take issue with this analogy, or any basketball analogy when it comes to Frontier . But your claim that it was like air balling a foul shot was a little too much? It was more like air balling an uncontested dunk 2 feet from the rim.

Being that it's football season coming up, I'd say... this (YouTube link) is a fair sporting comparison...

edit: for the uninterested, yes, it's Tony Romo botching a guaranteed win in the playoffs in 2007 by bobbling a snap...

[justinstrife]

Glad I didn't need to write a lengthy post to counter OD's. There's enough people in here with equal or superior writing styles, and it saves me a lot of work.

Keep up with the vigilance my comrades in arms!

And all Hail the Queen and her Princess!. -hides-

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by justinstrife

Glad I didn't need to write a lengthy post to counter OD's. There's enough people in here with equal or superior writing styles, and it saves me a lot of work.

Keep up with the vigilance my comrades in arms!

And all Hail the Queen and her Princess!. -hides-

Aw, c'mon, I love how you write and I´d like to see you retorically stomp OD into bloody paste.

[stray]

I'd just like to take this opportunity to say... SherylXMichael FTW?

Sheryl deserves better than the ice princess...

[TwilightHack]

Originally Posted by stray

I'd just like to take this opportunity to say... SherylXMichael FTW?

Sheryl deserves better than the ice princess...

She does deserve better, but I'd rather she be with the ice princess than the womanizer.

In any case, if I were to choose someone for Sheryl, it'd be Klan Klan because she deserves more as well.

[Tak]

It appears BleachOD have up the ante. This means we Sheryl shippers cannot take a beating lying down. Unfortunately, seeing how Swampy is enjoying his hard-earned break, it leaves me absolutely no choice but to take matters into my own hands...

Thus, without further ado, ladies and gentlemen, I proudly present:

Spoiler for Gehen Wir:

However the guy she wants...Has had all those things. So that does not impress him one bit

And one reason why she finds him to be so interesting.

So she's out of her element when around him. He doesn't drop at her feet like all the others, so she lets her insecurities get the better of her

Dispute #1:

I believe you are confusing loneliness with insecurity.

Had she been as insecure as you believe her to be, then please tell me the reason of her achievements, which eventually led to her becoming the Galactic Fairy.

"Before they get to the Island...

Alto’s on the phone with Ranka; Sheryl notices and when she does…She isn’t happy."

Dispute #2:



You are unfortunately very off in this statement. Considering their distance, it was impossible for Sheryl to know who he was talking to. Sheryl was angry because Alto wasn't there to do the shooting, not because he was talking to Ranka.

"I know about his personal life and you don’t” She purposely brought up Alto’s feelings regarding acting. Sheryl says “Really? I knew.” She not only implied that she has “that kind” of relationship with Alto.
She manages to make Ranka feel sad for that and the fact that he was asked to do something hates more than anything to help her.

Dispute #3:



First of all, it was Ranka who brought up the topic about Alto's past experience as an actor, and Luca who elaborated why Alto hated acting, not Sheryl. Sheryl only admitted to have not asked about Alto's past in detail because she thought he doesn't like talking about it. She never for once implied she knew about Alto's feeling regarding acting. Stop putting scripts into non-existent places.

On the other hand, Mikhail, Sheryl and Luca all knew about Alto's past, why not Ranka? Because she never bothered finding that out, did she? You can't blame Sheryl for knowing because Ranka is clueless.



Especially considering how easily his information could be sought after.

Here its worse. She actually smiled in her face and learned Ranka’s plans for Alto’s birthday.Only to cut her throat later…*While getting the "That lump" dig in*

Dispute #4:

Here you go again. First of all, Alto was offered three choices:







To visit a sick parent, Ranka's first live, or the sky he yearned for. In the case where all is fair in love and war, Sheryl's offer was just as legitimate as Ranka's, and Alto simply picked the sky over a LIVE concert. Nowhere is it written that Alto belonged to Ranka and that he must take upon her offer. Nowhere is it written that Alto couldn't make his own choices. Alto belonged to no one. Alto's choice is his alone, and at the end, he simply took the offer from someone with a fucking clue. You best remember that.

it wasn’t sweet to me. It was laced with malice and I didn’t enjoy it. Not to mention if you look at Alto’s expressions. His gaze is actually one of shock and then pity. He only blushes was she says she was only teasing him<--everyone does

Dispute #5:

Where is the malice? So that she could make Ranka see what they were doing?

Unfortunately,



Ranka wasn't looking. Her turning head was unexpected and unanticipated.

And Sheryl was simply unsure, that is all.

- Tak (Second half when I am bored)

[TwilightHack]

Mmm, I like the boats and tanks. I'm curious to see the 2nd half.

[zalem]

Tak, you rock man. Though I don't feel the ante has been upped.

Alto looking at Sheryl in "shock and pity" is particularly hilarious. Where that came from I don't know. Shock yes, but pity?

[Swampstorm]

Originally Posted by Tak

It appears BleachOD have up the ante. This means we Sheryl shippers cannot take a beating lying down. Unfortunately, seeing how Swampy is enjoying his hard-earned break, it leaves me absolutely no choice but to take matters into my own hands...

I was wondering when someone would stumble upon that nickname...

Originally Posted by zalem

Tak, you rock man. Though I don't feel the ante has been upped.

Alto looking at Sheryl in "shock and pity" is particularly hilarious. Where that came from I don't know. Shock yes, but pity?

That probably comes from watching the live action version of Macross F, starring Mr. T as Alto.