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Marcus H. · 2014-10-01, 22:46

Some Filipino participants have compared the experience of Occupy Central with the EDSA People Power Revolution of 1986. On one hand, I couldn't see the comparison because the governments of China and Hongkong hasn't even trampled on the rights of the people to start and even some pro-democracy groups based in HK don't agree to the movement. However, I'm a bit pleased that there hasn't been any major casualties from either side. The moment someone gets killed, all hell will certainly break loose in Hongkong.

SaintessHeart · 2014-10-02, 01:14

China is Hong Kong’s future – not its enemy

What disturbs me is that this is endorsed by my Manpower Minister, the joker who is singlehandedly responsible for stagnant wages and over-reliance of foreign labour in my country.

So when will we be annexed to China?

P.S : The author used to be an editor for the Communist Party of Great Britain's journal.

LoveYouSaber · 2014-10-02, 04:42

Briefly read the article SaintessHeart posted, and I can say that I felt the author got it wrong, at least for myself. This protest is not about fearing Hong Kong being marginalized or left behind while other Chinese cities are growing faster than Hong Kong. It's about fearing China further extending its influence and interference in Hong Kong's affairs. It's about holding China accountable for what it promised, and it's about making sure that China doesn't get away with defining democracy in the "Chinese" way (which is to say, sham democracy). And you can bet that the only reason the Chinese government promised democracy for Hong Kong prior to the handover was to get the support of the local people - otherwise who would have been crazy enough to accept returning to a communist government who had just fired upon its citizens?

And yeah, right, the Chinese government has been "overwhelmingly honouring" its commitment to the one country, two systems - I LOLed at that part. To be fair, from 1997 to 2003, it did try its best not to meddle in Hong Kong's affairs - I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for this period. But after half a million went to the streets in 2003 to protest against the first chief executive, China realized that it had to take a more "active" approach towards Hong Kong, so what has happened is that as China's economic influence is growing, the Chinese government has started to slowly erode Hong Kong's system, thinking that her economic clout can be enough to make Hong Kong people accept the harsh reality. This protest is about telling China that we are going to make a stand.

SaintessHeart · 2014-10-02, 05:43

Hong Kong protests, as seen by Chinese mainlanders

Quote:

A large swath of online commentary centered around remarks by John Ross, a fellow at China’s Renmin University and former director of economic and business policy for the mayor of London. A Sina Weibo account verified as belonging to Ross said that “Western media’s coverage on Hong Kong is just too hypocritical.”

“During the 150 years when British colonists ruled Hong Kong, Britain never allowed Hong Kong people to elect their own governor. And the U.S. never had a problem with that,” Ross wrote. “China has now designed a more democratic system for Hong Kong than Britain, but the U.S. instead strongly protested against the Chinese government.”

No wonder London needed austerity.

Quote:

“At diplomatic level, the Chinese government can criticize the U.S. government,” Ren wrote. “However, for us, for society, for scholars, such analysis is just too superficial, having deviated from the nature of the thing and played down the real and spontaneous political demands of some Hong Kong people.”

Having paper credentials does not imply capability you know.

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2014-10-02, 07:33

The Chinese scholar is comparing the Chinese government to the BRITISH EMPIRE?

Is that how far back he had to go to make the Communist Party look progressive?

Why don't he accuse USA of slavery while he is at it, to make the China human rights record look nicer?

LoveYouSaber · 2014-10-02, 09:47

And now hackers join in the fray....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFO0h...&feature=share

To be honest, I just feel amused more than anything else. I haven't heard of them before, but it seems previously they had declared cyberwar on ISIS - though I wonder how much ISIS relies on the internet....

Edit: Latest news is the Chief Executive has just announced it's going to ask the Chief Secretary for Administration (who is still considered to be popular/acceptable amongst protesters) to be the representative of the government to hold talks on political reform with the student leaders of the protest.

Well, hopefully this would defuse the tension tonight where the protesters are surrounding the Chief Executive's office and the police are in a stand-off with them. Though I doubt anything meaningful will come out of the talks as the Chief Executive has said right off the bat that any election method would have to concur with the earlier decision of the Chinese National People's Congress (which protesters are demanding to be revoked).

SisterPrincess · 2014-10-02, 15:58

Don't use the name "Occupy Central" for the current crisis. It should be "Umbrella Revolution" instead. As the activity are done by individuals who don't belong to any party or within politicians. The term Occupy Central is already over when the original organizers (there are 3 of them) pretty much hiding and then suddenly came back and try to reap benefits from these individuals.

JokerD · 2014-10-03, 03:19

Malware program targets Hong Kong protesters using Apple devices

There seem to be one for Android as well, but only those jailbroken phones are in danger.

In other news:
Ebola crisis: Liberia 'to prosecute man in US hospital'

The first US diagnosed patient is to be charged, (good luck getting him back btw)
Not sure if this is a good approach to take, might be that Liberia wants to make an example of him for the offense.

Xellos-_^ · 2014-10-03, 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by JokerD

Malware program targets Hong Kong protesters using Apple devices

There seem to be one for Android as well, but only those jailbroken phones are in danger.

In other news:
Ebola crisis: Liberia 'to prosecute man in US hospital'

The first US diagnosed patient is to be charged, (good luck getting him back btw)
Not sure if this is a good approach to take, might be that Liberia wants to make an example of him for the offense.

he is in the US on visa. He will have to go back to Liberia eventually.

LoveYouSaber · 2014-10-03, 11:17

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-29477731

Kind of what I feared - the government standing there while setting the crowd against other crowds in an attempt to portray the whole protest movement as ugly and disorderly. In fact, most of us believe that the people hurting the protesters and pulling down the tents were paid to do so, probably by groups backed by Beijing, to do so - though to be fair, I stress that there's no evidence yet of their connections, and I wish we could unearth that.

Xellos-_^ · 2014-10-03, 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveYouSaber

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-29477731

Kind of what I feared - the government standing there while setting the crowd against other crowds in an attempt to portray the whole protest movement as ugly and disorderly. In fact, most of us believe that the people hurting the protesters and pulling down the tents were paid to do so, probably by groups backed by Beijing, to do so - though to be fair, I stress that there's no evidence yet of their connections, and I wish we could unearth that.

and these anti-protestor can't just be small business owners and their employees whose business are affected by the protest? I think you are over estimating the support the protest have among the everyday people. The longer this goes on the more the everyday person becomes more inconvenience the more support the protesters will lose.

LoveYouSaber · 2014-10-03, 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

and these anti-protestor can't just be small business owners and their employees whose business are affected by the protest? I think you are over estimating the support the protest have among the everyday people. The longer this goes on the more the everyday person becomes more inconvenience the more support the protesters will lose.

Yep, I agree that there are everyday people who are unsatisfied with the protest, but to go to such lengths to actively tear down tents, throw away supplies, and to HIT protesters (videos abound on the internet now) is I think a bit too untypical for a normal citizen to do. Throughout these days, those who were unsatisfied with the inconvenience brought by the protests at most argued with and shouted at the protesters. It takes a remarkable change of heart to go to lengths to hit protesters, especially as the situation was supposed to have defused a bit over last night after talks were scheduled to be held between protesters and the government. That's why I personally don't think these anti-protesters (or at least those who started the fights) are the small business owners and employees affected by the protest. And I do sympathise with those whose everyday lives have been affected - we all have our lives disrupted. I wish it didn't have to come to this.

But if anything, these anti-protesters have made things worse. For one, students have now said they are NOT going to hold talks with the government since they deem the government and police had not done their part in protecting a peaceful demonstration. Secondly, the violence employed by these anti-protesters have again made people who support the protests angry - I certainly am most tempted to go back to the streets to protest in the coming days, if only to show that we are not going to be cowered by violence.

Edit: Another possibility could be that these anti-protesters are triad members. I may be jumping the gun a bit by saying these anti-protesters are organised or paid by pro-Beijing groups - but I do think that it's organised, pre-medicated and not an outburst of anger from those affected by the protests. And conveniently for the police, after the police step in to intervene in the scuffles, they also try to disperse the original protesters.

SisterPrincess · 2014-10-03, 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

and these anti-protestor can't just be small business owners and their employees whose business are affected by the protest? I think you are over estimating the support the protest have among the everyday people. The longer this goes on the more the everyday person becomes more inconvenience the more support the protesters will lose.

This is the mindset why organized thugs are able to crash the party with ease.

Back when economy being prosperous do they feel rich at all? Many people are ended up working 10-14 hours each day. During any typhoon days, if it's T8 at morning and then become T3 in the morning by 10 am Hong Kongers still need to work. Hard working in Hong Kong never pay off.

During the time when "Freedom Walk" (自由行to be exact but I don't know the English name of it) become a thing in Hong Kong rent in stores greatly increased for Mainland China tourists. Causeway Bay suffered the most. The amount of Chinese pharmacy stores are like everywhere in Mong Kok and Tsum Sha Tsui. 領滙 (The Link in English) really like to increase rent to ridiculous values just so there are more chains such as ParknShop (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ParknShop), McDonalds (Hong Kongers kind of liked it since McDonalds in HK is very likely the cheapest in the world, but they increase price of a meal in a very secret way which pissed off some customers).

Ok, so you closed down your store and move to somewhere else and exact same thing happens. Is this infinite loop fun for you? Yet Hong Kongers mindset believe making a noise is a bad idea as you will get this kind of response.

Quote:

This is disturbing. You made customers go away! (typical 30 year old)

Quote:

Stop making chaos. I can't take this as I'm sick.(typical 60+ year old)

1 month less of work equals what? 20 days of rent? Do they even feel happy in their life when it's 85% devoted to working? Hong Kongers need to take responsibility if they believe their life isn't garbage.

GuZidi · 2014-10-04, 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveYouSaber

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-29477731

Kind of what I feared - the government standing there while setting the crowd against other crowds in an attempt to portray the whole protest movement as ugly and disorderly. In fact, most of us believe that the people hurting the protesters and pulling down the tents were paid to do so, probably by groups backed by Beijing, to do so - though to be fair, I stress that there's no evidence yet of their connections, and I wish we could unearth that.

I'll have to disagree with the paid to hurt the protesters as you said there are no evidence of it. The locals are rising up against them, the more business is affected the bigger the pain grow and an upsurge will emerge kinda like that. I also didn't expect triads joining in as they were also losing business as well.

http://www.vox.com/2014/9/28/6857567...-its-3-percent
I'll have to blame the HK tycoons causing this much trouble and remembered one tycoon guy running from China's anti-corruption campaign.

http://english.cntv.cn/2014/10/03/VI...39774534.shtml

SaintessHeart · 2014-10-04, 12:08

The protests will run out of steam. But the damage caused may be irreversible.

"Die with me" is the name of the game. When Beijing is done sucking what it needs from HK, it will just be an empty husk. The youngsters know that and hey have nothing to lose.

SisterPrincess · 2014-10-04, 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuZidi

I'll have to disagree with the paid to hurt the protesters as you said there are no evidence of it. The locals are rising up against them, the more business is affected the bigger the pain grow and an upsurge will emerge kinda like that. I also didn't expect triads joining in as they were also losing business as well.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.n...9f1e1724bd015c

I know its Chinese but the evidence is there.

SaintessHeart · 2014-10-04, 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by SisterPrincess

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.n...9f1e1724bd015c

I know its Chinese but the evidence is there.

Blue Plastic Bag Action? What the heck does this mean?

TL for those who can't read Chinese :

Blue Plastic Bag Action
Golden Edge (?) , Bronze Bend (?) Gathering (Protest) - $200
Golden Plaza Gathering -$300
Bonus
Tearing down of tents : $500
Effective stopping of protests : $1000

Interested, please call Mr Lee @ 68254092.

SisterPrincess · 2014-10-04, 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Blue Plastic Bag Action? What the heck does this mean?

TL for those who can't read Chinese :

Blue Plastic Bag Action
Golden Edge (?) , Bronze Bend (?) Gathering (Protest) - $200
Golden Plaza Gathering -$300
Bonus
Tearing down of tents : $500
Effective stopping of protests : $1000

Interested, please call Mr Lee @ 68254092.

In umbrella revolution, they use yellow ribbon to support Hong Kong residents for demand a REAL universal suffrage. Blue ribbon action is for support police for justice and government. Originally this so called occupy Central doesn't use a symbol to begin with.

Quote:

Golden Plaza Gathering -$300

That's Admiralty gathering. In Hong Kong, Admiralty is east of Central (about 300m) and west of Wan Chai. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admiralty,_Hong_Kong

GuZidi · 2014-10-04, 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by SisterPrincess

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.n...9f1e1724bd015c

I know its Chinese but the evidence is there.

Now I fear a violent double standard of this...

Also this has been going around for some time.
http://www.enews163.com/2014/09/18/h...ike-63376.html
http://imgur.com/a9BCbXx,i9UkpCe,BMWP01D#0

Yu Ominae · 2014-10-04, 20:55

Haven't seen that confirmed with other news sources so far...

----

Also, a complete monster event done by a far-right Israeli activist:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-29460035

2014-10-01, 22:46	Link #34821
Marcus H. Princess or Plunderer? Join Date: May 2009 Location: the Philippines	Some Filipino participants have compared the experience of Occupy Central with the EDSA People Power Revolution of 1986. On one hand, I couldn't see the comparison because the governments of China and Hongkong hasn't even trampled on the rights of the people to start and even some pro-democracy groups based in HK don't agree to the movement. However, I'm a bit pleased that there hasn't been any major casualties from either side. The moment someone gets killed, all hell will certainly break loose in Hongkong. __________________ Continuing: White Sand Aquatope (6/24) and Vanitas S2 (0/12), The Vampire Dies in No Time S2 and Bofuri S2 (3/12). 2021: Restaurant to Another World S2 (3/12), takt Op. Destiny (1/12) and Taisho Maiden Fairy Tale (1/12). 2022: Yuusha Yamemasu (1/12), Kaguya-sama S3, Mob Psycho 100 III (Oct06), Bleach: 1000 Year Blood War (2/13) and Chainsaw Man (6/12). Spring 2023: Yamada-kun to Lv999 no Koi wo Suru, Kuma Kuma Kuma Bear Punch! (4/12), Skip to Loafer, Tonikaku Kawaii S2 (1/12), Otonari ni Ginga (5/12) and Kimi wa Houkago Insomnia (3/13). Contact me on Wikia and MyAnimeList. Anime List Status ~ Watching: 33. Completed: 468. Plan to watch: 39.

2014-10-02, 01:14	Link #34822
SaintessHeart NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~ Join Date: Nov 2007 Age: 35	China is Hong Kong’s future – not its enemy What disturbs me is that this is endorsed by my Manpower Minister, the joker who is singlehandedly responsible for stagnant wages and over-reliance of foreign labour in my country. So when will we be annexed to China? P.S : The author used to be an editor for the Communist Party of Great Britain's journal. __________________ When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus. Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.

2014-10-02, 07:33	Link #34825
Vallen Chaos Valiant Logician and Romantic Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Within my mind Age: 43	The Chinese scholar is comparing the Chinese government to the BRITISH EMPIRE? Is that how far back he had to go to make the Communist Party look progressive? Why don't he accuse USA of slavery while he is at it, to make the China human rights record look nicer? __________________

2014-10-02, 09:47	Link #34826
LoveYouSaber Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Age: 36	And now hackers join in the fray.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFO0h...&feature=share To be honest, I just feel amused more than anything else. I haven't heard of them before, but it seems previously they had declared cyberwar on ISIS - though I wonder how much ISIS relies on the internet.... Edit: Latest news is the Chief Executive has just announced it's going to ask the Chief Secretary for Administration (who is still considered to be popular/acceptable amongst protesters) to be the representative of the government to hold talks on political reform with the student leaders of the protest. Well, hopefully this would defuse the tension tonight where the protesters are surrounding the Chief Executive's office and the police are in a stand-off with them. Though I doubt anything meaningful will come out of the talks as the Chief Executive has said right off the bat that any election method would have to concur with the earlier decision of the Chinese National People's Congress (which protesters are demanding to be revoked). Last edited by LoveYouSaber; 2014-10-02 at 11:04. Reason: Latest news update

2014-10-04, 20:55	Link #34840
Yu Ominae ARCAM Spriggan agent Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Coquitlam, BC, Canada/Quezon City, Philippines	Haven't seen that confirmed with other news sources so far... ---- Also, a complete monster event done by a far-right Israeli activist: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-29460035 __________________ Even if we were at odds with each other, I still thank you for training me, Instructor Bowman - Yu Ominae, reflecting on Bowman's death after killing him in Phantom Island

2014-10-02, 04:42	Link #34823
LoveYouSaber Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Age: 36	Briefly read the article SaintessHeart posted, and I can say that I felt the author got it wrong, at least for myself. This protest is not about fearing Hong Kong being marginalized or left behind while other Chinese cities are growing faster than Hong Kong. It's about fearing China further extending its influence and interference in Hong Kong's affairs. It's about holding China accountable for what it promised, and it's about making sure that China doesn't get away with defining democracy in the "Chinese" way (which is to say, sham democracy). And you can bet that the only reason the Chinese government promised democracy for Hong Kong prior to the handover was to get the support of the local people - otherwise who would have been crazy enough to accept returning to a communist government who had just fired upon its citizens? And yeah, right, the Chinese government has been "overwhelmingly honouring" its commitment to the one country, two systems - I LOLed at that part. To be fair, from 1997 to 2003, it did try its best not to meddle in Hong Kong's affairs - I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for this period. But after half a million went to the streets in 2003 to protest against the first chief executive, China realized that it had to take a more "active" approach towards Hong Kong, so what has happened is that as China's economic influence is growing, the Chinese government has started to slowly erode Hong Kong's system, thinking that her economic clout can be enough to make Hong Kong people accept the harsh reality. This protest is about telling China that we are going to make a stand.

2014-10-02, 15:58	Link #34827
SisterPrincess Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2014	Don't use the name "Occupy Central" for the current crisis. It should be "Umbrella Revolution" instead. As the activity are done by individuals who don't belong to any party or within politicians. The term Occupy Central is already over when the original organizers (there are 3 of them) pretty much hiding and then suddenly came back and try to reap benefits from these individuals.

2014-10-03, 03:19	Link #34828
JokerD Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003	Malware program targets Hong Kong protesters using Apple devices There seem to be one for Android as well, but only those jailbroken phones are in danger. In other news: Ebola crisis: Liberia 'to prosecute man in US hospital' The first US diagnosed patient is to be charged, (good luck getting him back btw) Not sure if this is a good approach to take, might be that Liberia wants to make an example of him for the offense.

2014-10-03, 11:17	Link #34830
LoveYouSaber Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Age: 36	http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-29477731 Kind of what I feared - the government standing there while setting the crowd against other crowds in an attempt to portray the whole protest movement as ugly and disorderly. In fact, most of us believe that the people hurting the protesters and pulling down the tents were paid to do so, probably by groups backed by Beijing, to do so - though to be fair, I stress that there's no evidence yet of their connections, and I wish we could unearth that.

2014-10-04, 12:08	Link #34835
SaintessHeart NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~ Join Date: Nov 2007 Age: 35	The protests will run out of steam. But the damage caused may be irreversible. "Die with me" is the name of the game. When Beijing is done sucking what it needs from HK, it will just be an empty husk. The youngsters know that and hey have nothing to lose.