Abortion right or wrong

[kayos]

Although I find abortion (stomping out the seed before the flower could bloom) morally wrong, it's a good means of controlling overpopulation by allowing the mother the choice of pulling the trigger.

[PaperMaster]

Abortion will be correct for someone who is very emotional about it. In the Mother's mind I will have to spend my own money for someone else etc etc, and she will not have as much benefits as she had before. Therefore to sound nice she makes up lies just to make herself sound like a good person. Other people who feel the same way as she does will do the same.
In conclusion I think it is wrong, but that doesn't mean to say that if I was in that sort of situation I won't encourage it. I may do it because of emotional trauma.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by kayos

Although I find abortion (stomping out the seed before the flower could bloom) morally wrong, it's a good means of controlling overpopulation by allowing the mother the choice of pulling the trigger.

No, it really isn't. If you want to control overpopulation, go for sex ed, availability of contraceptives, and female employment. Abortion should be used as an exception, not the rule.

[-KarumA-]

Originally Posted by kayos

Although I find abortion (stomping out the seed before the flower could bloom) morally wrong, it's a good means of controlling overpopulation by allowing the mother the choice of pulling the trigger.

I disagree with that pointer on overpopulation, abortion cannot be used for an excuse to stop using your brains and have sex and then oops I'm knocked up so I'll just use an abortion so that the world doesnt get too over populated, thats stupid

I think abortion is right but only in soem cases, if people just start having sex without thinking of any way to prevent pregnancy while doing it then they are just stupid and if knocked up I don't think its just right to slip it off for abortion, it would just be a tool then. Though Ive never had one myself I wonder if it has any impact ont he person who has it, by that meaning that if there are people who dont feel regret for the life they are destroying, if people just make the same mistakes then I'd say you are fcked now and might as well raise that child instead of using abortion

In other cases I do find it apropiate, then we come to the subject rape. You wouldn't want the child of your rapist, I experienced something that came close to it and hell no to having his baby because it becomes a personal matter then, you'd never be able to look at that child without the reminder of your rapist that way, that is how I think of it. Also wouldn't it be appropiate to use an abortion if a child of lets say 13-14 is raped and becomes pregnant, there are even younger ages in which childeren can get pregnant and their body just isnt ready for it, let alone they still have a whole life in front of them

edit: We should've made a poll with this topic

[Anh_Minh]

Plenty of girls became mother at 13-14, a few centuries ago.

I'd like to know the reasoning behind "it depends on how the girl got knocked up". Is denying her the possibility of abortion really a proper punishment? What does that say about child bearing?

If someone was stupid, climbed a tree and fell down, would you deny that person medical treatment? "Oops, you were dumb, your injury is a consequence of that, so we'll just let it follow its natural course."?

Also, how nice, for the kid. "Yeah, your mom was an idiot, so we forced her to have you. Serves her right, eh?"

[monster]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

That's not a true difference in the situations.

Of course, it is. If you take away the man's illness, he would not be dependent on you. So his dependency has more to do with his illness rather than his life. You can't say the same thing about a fetus or even a baby.

And if you read my post the right to live isn't being deprived, the fetus just simply cannot survive. Hence my example with the bum.

When you force a living being out of its natural habitat to cause certain death, you are depriving it of life.

[-KarumA-]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Plenty of girls became mother at 13-14, a few centuries ago.

A few centuries ago times were a lot different than now, are you going to send women back to the kitchen as well?

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I'd like to know the reasoning behind "it depends on how the girl got knocked up". Is denying her the possibility of abortion really a proper punishment? What does that say about child bearing?

If someone was stupid, climbed a tree and fell down, would you deny that person medical treatment? "Oops, you were dumb, your injury is a consequence of that, so we'll just let it follow its natural course."?

Also, how nice, for the kid. "Yeah, your mom was an idiot, so we forced her to have you. Serves her right, eh?"

Then what do you think of people who would just use abortion as an excuse to have unsafe sex and not use your brain, I know a couple who had sex when she was 14 she got knocked up and kept the child and still made the same stupid mistake of getting knocked up with the guy twice a year after. I agree that you can't say no to people getting an abortion but I find it stupid that some people will use it as a solution to a problem caused by their own stupidity, I would say educating and possibly therapy next to the abortion would be good then to let them know how they can prevent getting pregnant, but I hate the idea of abortion being this like 'daily thing' when they should just use their brain and have save sex, like a common saying that a minority ruins it for the rest

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by monstert

Of course, it is. If you take away the man's illness, he would not be dependent on you. So his dependency has more to do with his illness rather than his life. You can't say the same thing about a fetus or even a baby. When you force a living being out of its natural habitat to cause certain death, you are depriving it of life.

...

If you took away the fact that the fetus is underdeveloped, it would not dependent on you.

Also... What do you want them to do? Simply take away the source of nutrition, and let the fetus die in the mother's womb?

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by -KarumA-

A few centuries ago times were a lot different than now, are you going to send women back to the kitchen as well?

I'm just saying "their body isn't ready" isn't quite true. They are, physiologically speaking, ready.

Then what do you think of people who would just use abortion as an excuse to have unsafe sex and not use your brain, I know a couple who had sex when she was 14 she got knocked up and kept the child and still made the same stupid mistake of getting knocked up with the guy twice a year after. I agree that you can't say no to people getting an abortion but I find it stupid that some people will use it as a solution to a problem caused by their own stupidity, I would say educating and possibly therapy next to the abortion would be good then to let them know how they can prevent getting pregnant, but I hate the idea of abortion being this like 'daily thing' when they should just use their brain and have save sex, like a common saying that a minority ruins it for the rest

I'd say that they're idiots, but I don't see how discouraging them from getting an abortion is a solution. If anything, you should encourage them to have their tubes tied and stop polluting the genepool.

Prevention, education? Sure, but those are for before the pregnancy. Once the pregnancy's there, abortion is a perfectly good answer. (Of course, that doesn't preclude educating them so they'll avoid the next unwanted pregnancy. But none of that is saying "Oh, they were being idiots, so they shouldn't have an abortion.") Please also note, nobody here but Kayos is advocating using abortion as a substitute for sex ed and contraceptives.

[kayos]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

nobody here but Kayos is advocating using abortion as a substitute for sex ed and contraceptives.

Please don't put words in my mouth, I'm not advocating for abortion, I'm just stating what it is and what it's doing. Abortion is the destruction of life in development and if you look at it from an sadistic optimistic POV... this world is becoming overpopulated with it's limited numbers of resources at hands. The medical field are still advancing in their cure to prolong and retain life. With new babies being born every day what would happen to this planet if people stopped having abortion? The consumption of resources would increases and we would probably be reduced to China's one child policy method but I doubt that would happen.

Sex ed and contraceptives method are fine but the only thing that's 100% effective in preventing pregnancy is abstinence.

BTW I don't encourage abortion, I despised the concept use of taking away any form of life (or life in development for that matter)... unless it threaten the extinction of another life.

[Cub-Sama]

I think abortion is morally wrong, it isn't the baby's fault you got knocked up! Why kill it? You wouldn't kill a baby that has been born so why kill an unborn baby that hasn't even had the chance to live yet, do you know how many people want a baby and can't have it so if you can't keep the baby put it up for adoption! Don't kill the poor thing and next time don't have unsafe sex, you wouldn't like it if your parents had an abortion when they were pregnant with your siblings so why should you do it to your own child?

[Amray]

This question appears to be more personally opinionated and debated about than that of animal testing. Which also means that people will have their own views on the matter and will most likely never change them no matter what the opposers say. Therefore flame wars are not necessary.

I think it is quite unfair to be honest, but some say that the child has nowhere near developed to know that it is living yet anyway and therefore it does not matter. That is true although the bearer is still taking out a life that could be which can seem quite unfair under certain circumstances. I can understand that if a baby was growing inside a female as a result of a rape incident then it could be very hard for them to deal with, but that is obvious and I suppose I could somewhat understand if they wanted to rid of it given the circumstance. Being raped is one bad thing, but bringing up a child whos father abused the mother and victim could be extremely hard to cope with, as well as the fact thay she was abused in the first place. That is just my opinion though. You cannot change it.

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by Amray

This question appears to be more personally opinionated and debated about than that of animal testing. Which also means that people will have their own views on the matter and will most likely never change them no matter what the opposers say. Therefore flame wars are not necessary.

Flame wars are never necessary, but it isn't true that nobody can change their mind on this issue. This is one of those issues where people take an initial stance based on emotion. Their lines of reasoning may be unclear, and in reality they may even logically disagree with their emotional reaction. Reasoning it out will help others to understand their own feelings better, and perhaps to reverse their stance.

Originally Posted by Cub-Sama

I think abortion is morally wrong, it isn't the baby's fault you got knocked up! Why kill it? You wouldn't kill a baby that has been born so why kill an unborn baby that hasn't even had the chance to live yet, do you know how many people want a baby and can't have it so if you can't keep the baby put it up for adoption! Don't kill the poor thing and next time don't have unsafe sex, you wouldn't like it if your parents had an abortion when they were pregnant with your siblings so why should you do it to your own child?

The term "kill" is already biased. There is also a great difference between ending the life of a baby that has been born versus one that is in the womb, but where the major difference begins is a point of great debate.

As for the argument "you wouldn't like it if your parents had an abortion on you" - well, I wouldn't be around to care, would I? Not knowing what nonexistence is like, I can't say whether I'd have preferred it that way.

[Ascaloth]

Originally Posted by Cub-Sama

I think abortion is morally wrong, it isn't the baby's fault you got knocked up! Why kill it? You wouldn't kill a baby that has been born so why kill an unborn baby that hasn't even had the chance to live yet, do you know how many people want a baby and can't have it so if you can't keep the baby put it up for adoption! Don't kill the poor thing and next time don't have unsafe sex, you wouldn't like it if your parents had an abortion when they were pregnant with your siblings so why should you do it to your own child?

Association Fallacy, Aristotelian-era petitio principii, ignoratio elenchi, argumentum ad misericordium.

If you want to come back, do so with an actual argument.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by kayos

Please don't put words in my mouth, I'm not advocating for abortion, I'm just stating what it is and what it's doing. Abortion is the destruction of life in development and if you look at it from an sadistic optimistic POV... this world is becoming overpopulated with it's limited numbers of resources at hands. The medical field are still advancing in their cure to prolong and retain life. With new babies being born every day what would happen to this planet if people stopped having abortion? The consumption of resources would increases and we would probably be reduced to China's one child policy method but I doubt that would happen.

You seriously think abortion is making a dent in population growth? I don't have the numbers, but think about it. In the world, how many abortions are there, for how many births? For that matter, how many "natural" miscarriages? How many infant deaths?

Sex ed and contraceptives method are fine but the only thing that's 100% effective in preventing pregnancy is abstinence.

For the purpose of population control, sex ed and contraceptives are good enough.

[Jazzrat]

Originally Posted by kayos

The medical field are still advancing in their cure to prolong and retain life. With new babies being born every day what would happen to this planet if people stopped having abortion? The consumption of resources would increases and we would probably be reduced to China's one child policy method but I doubt that would happen.

Sex ed and contraceptives method are fine but the only thing that's 100% effective in preventing pregnancy is abstinence.

Actually, education and development makes a bigger dent on population growth as parents choose to focus their resources to ensure their children to have higher education level, better healthcare and nutrition to meet the requirement of current society for a better prospect.

I ll take my chance with contraceptive instead of giving up sex

[Melody 2007]

I think it depends~
if you don't have the ability to raise a child~~it's good for you to do that~~
but~~~anyway~~we must take the responsbility for what we've done~~
so...don't do anything stupid~~

[JMvS]

In a perfect world no woman would have to face this choice...

But our world is far from perfect.

Advocating it as a mean of contraception or population control is almost criminal I think: a surgical act messing this much with the boundary of life and death should be the exception, especially as it is NOT innocuious.

The topic is especially heated over the problem of viable premature vs late pregnancy abortion.

A better education is the key I think, and not one that prone condom as the panacea! Sex-education should produce responsible youngsters, not some that enjoy a sexual life tagged "safe" as long as they follow "the rules".

I think abortion can be advocated in some extreme situations: like a life-threat to the mother, or her risking psychological damages. Socially motivated pregnancy rejections should be presented adoption first I think.

[Anh_Minh]

Any choice made - to have sex or not, to keep a kid, put it up for adoption or abort it - should obviously be an informed choice. Regardless of whether the abortion is "socially motivated" or not.

[JMvS]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Any choice made - to have sex or not, to keep a kid, put it up for adoption or abort it - should obviously be an informed choice. Regardless of whether the abortion is "socially motivated" or not.

I concur. Information on all the aspects is the most important thing regarding such a choice.