Character Discussion - Lelouch

[bladeofdarkness]

lelouch made himself the focus of all the new hate in order to make people forget the old ones
and in that regard he changed the world in the most extreme way
people die and are born
buildings are built and torn down
hate remains for decaeds after the fact and poisons everything (and trust me, i come from a part of the world where old hate is a very real thing)
and lelouch's death was a way to get rid of that one problem that is the hardest one to put aside (and as a side note, he also stopped shnizel's plan)
he made it possible for a former japanese terrorist (the freaking ace of the black knights)
to attend a britannina academy
the academy itself being part of a symbol of britannian cruallty and ocupation (the tokyo settalment. which both kallen and suzaku admit is a constent reminder of japans shame and defeat)
and no one seems to have any problems with it
he made it possible for the new PM of japan to marry a britannian woman (a baroness)
and no one cares

he may not have rebuilt houses
but he sure as hell built some bridges

[NyxOne]

Well, Kallen attended Ashford without any sort of interference before...even when she was a terrorist.

And Ashford was one of the most tranquil places, frankly, in the entire series. If it was viewed with scorn and disgust as a 'symbol of occupation', Kallen wouldn't have bothered to make friends with the student council. (It isn't like she hates every Britannian in the series.)

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by NyxOne

Well, Kallen attended Ashford without any sort of interference before...even when she was a terrorist.

until her ID was exposed
back then no one (aside from milly) even knew she was japanese
let alone a part of the resisstance
from the looks of the epiloge she now attends ashford without hiding who she is (she rather wears the guren USB proudly)

and the symbol is the settelment itself
which ashford is a part of
and no offence ment what so ever by what im about to say
but the point of the post wasnt really about ashford
its about how hate is much harder to get rid of

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by Witacume

Death is not necessarily redemption.
don't confuse redemption with sacrifice.

But that's exactly what Lelouch is doing.
For Suzaku, it was always about redeeming himself.
For Lelouch, it was probably a sacrifice, yes, but also a self-inflicted punishment.

I think Lelouch always wanted to live. But I also agree that pride and guilt made him change his mind. He wanted to redeem himself, and to him, his end was not a sad one.
But I pity him nonetheless, because I think he - just like Suzaku - deserved so much more happiness in his life and that his fate was a rather cruel one.
And that's why I like the open ending. I don't care what was confirmed, I will stick to the anime and continue to think that maybe, just maybe, he got an unwanted chance to truly overcome his countless emotional scars and psychological issues.

[NyxOne]

Even though the anime itself is not an open ending and we see Lelouch die.

Whatever works.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by NyxOne

Even though the anime itself is not an open ending and we see Lelouch die.

We also know that there is a code that makes people immortal and that C.C. talked to Lelouch when he was already dead.
Therefore, I will continue to live in my little land of make-believe where everything is possible. ;P

[NyxOne]

And C.C. can talk to the dead. Marianne. Lelouch is probably in the World of C.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by NyxOne

And C.C. can talk to the dead. Marianne. Lelouch is probably in the World of C.

Hu? C.C. talked to Marianne after she was truly dead?
Did I miss something? o.o
But yeah, I agree with you... Lelouch is probably dead. ;P

[NyxOne]

No, not then, but before Turn 21. She was still dead then in the physical realm anyway.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by NyxOne

No, not then, but before Turn 21. She was still dead then in the physical realm anyway.

But just how dead was she?
Ah, well, doesn't matter, I guess. Back to Lelouch.
I pity him even more than I pity all the other characters.

[bladeofdarkness]

then in that case i would like to believe that the entire final arc (ep 21-25) was all a nightmare suzaku was having while being knocked out (after having fallen down the pit after the fight with bismark) and didnt actually take place at all

1)lelouch didnt join forces with the guy who blew nunnaly up mere hours before, take over britannia and then turned himself into the most hated bastard in history (and then had suzaku kill him)

2)suzaku didnt join forces with lelouch right after finally having had a breakdown and was starting to be an actually interesting antagonsit (and certinatly didnt become zero)

3)C.C didnt get her memory back after having finally realising that she actually has feeling for lelouch only to stand around doing nothing for the last 4 eps (and still not being able to admit she likes lelouch when asked about it in ep 24)

4)kallen didnt kiss lelouch one moment and then three minutes after become his most determind enemy (to the point where both C.C and SUZAKU!!! have to SAVE HIM from HER)

5)sunrise did NOT bring half the fucking cast back to life (most of all nunnaly, and gilford)

6)becouse she was never broght back to life, nunnaly certinatly did NOT NUKE ANYONE

7) the OOBK were not dumb enough to join forces with the guy that xing-ke himself said was too dangerus to be trusted, DESPITE him having no other forces aside from the mordred and the damocles (which xing-ke said from the start that he doesnt want him to use)

8)shnizel didnt turn out to be so pathatic that he couldnt even use his nuke spamming fortress to attack the FLANKS of Lelouch's army before the battle
and since point 7 made it clear that the OOBk were not dumb enough to joing forces with him, they were naturally not dumb enough to HAND HIM COMMAND OF ALL THEIR FORCES
and he didnt fall for the same trick that mao did (only for an even longer time and more complex talk)

there
isnt it fun to pretend that stuff that happend didnt actually happen
i admit that its "probable" that all these things happened
but it could still all be suzkau's dream

[Nogitsune]

If you want to believe that, feel free to do so. o.o

[Jaime Kordek]

Man, Suzaku has some weird dreams.

Anyways though, I don't really think of Lelouch as a figure to be pitied, at least, not in the finale. Zero Requiem was just about the only event in his entire life that went exactly as he had hoped, it was his triumph, and he died knowing that he was successful, and that those closest to him understood what he had done.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by Jaime Kordek

Zero Requiem was just about the only event in his entire life that went exactly as he had hoped, it was his triumph, and he died knowing that he was successful, and that those closest to him understood what he had done.

I agree with that.
Still, I think he deserved a happy life... not a happy death.
Oh well. I guess that's what fanfiction is for.

[Knight Of Zero]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

I agree with that.
Still, I think he deserved a happy life... not a happy death.
Oh well. I guess that's what fanfiction is for.

He can have a happy life if he chose to but
he rather not for the sake of his goal

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by Knight Of Zero

He can have a happy life if he chose to but
he rather not for the sake of his goal

I know. *sighs*
But that's just one more reason for me to feel sad every time I am reminded of Zero Requiem.

Don't get me wrong, I loved the ending - I just want to hug Lelouch.

[Masterkeyes2]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

I am just saying that with Gundam, Tomino could create Zeta Gundam using Char, and Bright as the only main characters from the original Gundam series because those two where so developed.

Would anyone watch a Code Geass series starring an entirely new cast with Suzaku and Ougi as the two leaders?

The Ougi Slap!

....alright you have a point there. And I agree anyway-Lelouch basically made the show what it was. Personally I wonder what Tanaguichi originally planned for Lelouch's story in R2 if this wasn't the original idea. At the very least it would be cool to see it in a manga-format or an abridge movie version.

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by youngde

I'm sorry, but if he was just dying to satisfy his own pride and because he had some psychological need to heap all of the blame onto himself, that is the biggest load of crap I've ever heard of. He didn't have the right to leave all the people that loved him behind to care for the peace he sacrificed so much for. That's just a major cop out.

A quote from an interview with Okouchi

"However, Lelouch says in the first episode: “Only those prepared to be shot are allowed to pull the trigger themselves.” If you were to think of that as his pride, then I think his getting shot (killed) in the end was a logical end"

http://animeotaku.animeblogger.net/2...louchs-coffin/

Lelouch believed that people can not prey on the weak (Lelouch did that, and tried to atone for it with his death), and those who shoot must be prepared to be shot (to prove that Lelouch had himself killed).

Keep in mind that we are talking about a man who lectured a bunch of men with guns about his philosophy and then had them kill themselves, proving that the only reason he did that was to prove how superior he is to them.

Originally Posted by Masterkeyes2

....alright you have a point there. And I agree anyway-Lelouch basically made the show what it was. Personally I wonder what Tanaguichi originally planned for Lelouch's story in R2 if this wasn't the original idea. At the very least it would be cool to see it in a manga-format or an abridge movie version.

If you read the page I just posted, it states that the ending was the planned one. No matter what happened between the end of the first seasons and Lelouch's death, Lelouch was going to die.

[eaglei3]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

A quote from an interview with Okouchi

"However, Lelouch says in the first episode: “Only those prepared to be shot are allowed to pull the trigger themselves.” If you were to think of that as his pride, then I think his getting shot (killed) in the end was a logical end"

http://animeotaku.animeblogger.net/2...louchs-coffin/

Lelouch believed that people can not prey on the weak (Lelouch did that, and tried to atone for it with his death), and those who shoot must be prepared to be shot (to prove that Lelouch had himself killed).

Keep in mind that we are talking about a man who lectured a bunch of men with guns about his philosophy and then had them kill themselves, proving that the only reason he did that was to prove how superior he is to them.



If you read the page I just posted, it states that the ending was the planned one. No matter what happened between the end of the first seasons and Lelouch's death, Lelouch was going to die.

I seriously hated his explanation of "those who are pulling the trigger must be prepared to be shot themselves." It is one thing knowing you are putting yourself at risk when you shoot. But to simply let yourself be shot is an entirely different thing. I think he tried using that phrase in a way that did not work for the anime's end personally.

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by eaglei3

I seriously hated his explanation of "those who are pulling the trigger must be prepared to be shot themselves." It is one thing knowing you are putting yourself at risk when you shoot. But to simply let yourself be shot is an entirely different thing. I think he tried using that phrase in a way that did not work for the anime's end personally.

I never liked it in the first place, it makes no sense

Of course soldiers are prepared to be shot that's why their soldiers. The idea that somehow Britannians are so racist that they just join to kill other nations is just stupid. If Britannia is that evil than how can Zero's plan work?