[Question] Origins of Isekai Shoukan & Tensei

[erneiz_hyde]

No, read the thread. It's not about the origin of isekai genre, it's the origin of the current fad. Those titles are so old it cannot possibly be relevant.

[0cean]

Haven't we all figured out by now that SAO is responsible?

[AnimeFangirl]

We have. Now we just have to figure out why 8/10 of them have some ridiculously cute creature as a mascot. Oh wait, I know, it's for merchandise reasons.

[0cean]

What are the ridiculously cute creature mascots from Overlord, Knight's and Magic, Youjo Senki, Kono Suba, Isekai wa Smartphone, Isekai Shokudou, Hai to Gensou no Grimgar, GATE, Drifters, No Game No Life, Log Horizon, Outbreak Company, Mondaiji-tachi and Oda Nobuna no Yabou? Or if those are the 20%, which anime are the 80%?

[RDNexus]

I'm also curious... I don't remember such creatures existing in stories like those...

[AnimeFangirl]

80% is a total exaggeration, but I made the comment because I just read three isekai manga in a row - Gaikotsu Kishi, The New Gate, Isekai de Kuro no Iyashite - with really cute pets popping out of nowhere.
And then there's Dungeon Nursery which has nothing but cute mascots.

[MisaoFan]

Originally Posted by 0cean

Incidentally, Elf o Karu Mono-tachi was the first late-night anime and made it a thing for anime to run at that time, which also resulted in the explosion of the otaku anime market. Since otaku didn't mind watching anime late at night. (Or recording it.)

Earlier attempts at late night anime started in early 70s and continued very rarely well into early 90s but this one did launch a flourishing late night anime boom from there.

[0cean]

Is there a list somewhere with other late night anime from before Elf wo Karu Mono-tachi?

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by 0cean

Haven't we all figured out by now that SAO is responsible?

It's not. SAO doesn't even belong to the isekai subgenre. If SAO was responsible we'd get more Death game stories instead, but nothing like that happened.


Instead it was a chain reaction. Isekai probably became popular because it not only makes world building much easier than any regular fantasy would, as the protagonist learns about the world together with the reader, so exposition is much easier to write than in normal fantasy, where very subtle writing is necessary to prevent non-sensical monologues about things the protagonist learned 10+ years ago or long info-dumps by an omniscient narrator, but isekai also has much more variety as a "stock" setting than many other popular genres like the "totally average and weak high school student with tsundere childhood friend suddenly meeting the main girl who then transfers to his school" or "magic highschool with a protagonist who is strong or overpowered but has to hide his power for political reason or because they trigger a trauma" and the like.

Due to isekai, webnovel writers could write fantasy much easier and created a new trend in Syosetsuka ni Narou, which also started getting more popular due to it. With the rising popularity of Syosetsuka ni Narou, it first started a surge of new light novels, most of which were on a level where they were far worse at sale than the absolute top, but they managed to snatch the sales just below the super popular titles, getting first week LN sales over 10.000, which is pretty impressive if you put aside the top-tier LNs.

Later those Syosetsuka ni Narou LNs got their own manga adaptations as well and therefore got even more exposure.

What made Syosetsuka ni Narou isekai series truly popular with anime might have actually been the combo of Overlord and Re:Zero in their own ways (their respective success was quite different in nature). Only afterwards did we start to get consecutive Syosetsuka ni Narou isekai anime adaptations one after another.

And the next potential successes for isekai anime adaptations would probably be Tate no Yuusha which had been really long awaited, as well as Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken, which managed get first week sales figures of about 30.000 per volume and even got it's manga adaptation into the top rankings, all even before getting its anime adaptation announced. And it seem that we might get both of them in the upcoming Fall season. I can't wait.

[RDNexus]

I don't think it was exactly the Death Game setting that got people attracted to the Aincrad Arc, but it's fantasy world with game mechanics. And OP Kirito, I guess...

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by xrick

I don't think it was exactly the Death Game setting that got people attracted to the Aincrad Arc, but it's fantasy world with game mechanics. And OP Kirito, I guess...

But then the anime we would see adapted would still try to stick closer to SAO's setting.

Doesn't it seem more likely that Overlord and Re:Zero, which unlike SAO are actually isekai, are the ones responsible for the recent isekai trend?

Also I am not entirely sure, but afaik SAO is not a LN that was published in Syosetsuka ni Narou as a WN before, right? So it seems rather unlikely for SAO to be the cause.

The first well known anime adaptation that I am aware of from Syosetsuka ni Narou is, off the top of my head, Log Horizon, so perhaps it was that which made the first impact.

[Tenzen12]

Whether we talk about fantasy setting or game mechanics SAO is pretty far from inspiring. Whole supernatural aspect is practically limited to fighting monster once per blue moon. In other hand, while SAO put lot of effort make game world, mechanics itself are pretty blurry and mostly just offhand mentioned.

Neither is flaw on its own (there is obviously plenty other flaws though), but again not something you would want copy. With current isekai trend being all about mechanics, dungeon crawling and world ow sword more importantly magic, there is very little influence to be seen.

Log Hora in other hand have both aspects in full force.

[erneiz_hyde]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

Also I am not entirely sure, but afaik SAO is not a LN that was published in Syosetsuka ni Narou as a WN before, right? So it seems rather unlikely for SAO to be the cause.

You've got that backwards. Because SAO got popular, Narou became more relevant since it proves that self-published stories can be successful too. THIS is why SAO is the root of the current fad.

[Tenzen12]

Current fad of web novels, not isekai in particular.

[RDNexus]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

Also I am not entirely sure, but afaik SAO is not a LN that was published in Syosetsuka ni Narou as a WN before, right? So it seems rather unlikely for SAO to be the cause.

That's where you're wrong, my friend. SAO WAS a WN before being officially published as a LN series, thanks to Accel World's publication.
As a WN, it ended on the recently finished Alicization Arc in the LNs. And, as far as I know, it was quite popular on Narou.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Whether we talk about fantasy setting or game mechanics SAO is pretty far from inspiring. Whole supernatural aspect is practically limited to fighting monster once per blue moon. In other hand, while SAO put lot of effort make game world, mechanics itself are pretty blurry and mostly just offhand mentioned.

Neither is flaw on its own (there is obviously plenty other flaws though), but again not something you would want copy. With current isekai trend being all about mechanics, dungeon crawling and world ow sword more importantly magic, there is very little influence to be seen.

Log Hora in other hand have both aspects in full force.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

You've got that backwards. Because SAO got popular, Narou became more relevant since it proves that self-published stories can be successful too. THIS is why SAO is the root of the current fad.

Granting webnovels turned lightnovels a chance at getting an anime adaptation might indeed be influenced by SAO. But it seems far too fetched to credit SAO with anything beyond that, escpacially since all anime adaptations are STILL made from properly published LNs, not directly from WNs, so a WN still has to be popular enough by itself to receive an LN publication, otherwise there is not even a chance for an anime.

Also:

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Current fad of web novels, not isekai in particular.

This.

Originally Posted by xrick

That's where you're wrong, my friend. SAO WAS a WN before being officially published as a LN series, thanks to Accel World's publication.
As a WN, it ended on the recently finished Alicization Arc in the LNs. And, as far as I know, it was quite popular on Narou.

But what does it have to do with the current isekai trend? The fact that the content-influence of SAO is missing, as Tenzen pointed out, makes it rather hard to believe that it's on the shoulders of SAO or the various spin-offs.

Again, it seems more like Log Horizon, Re:Zero and Overlord are the main cause for the current isekai trend in anime.

As for syousetsu, at least for us here in the West, or more specifically Animesuki Forums, the main cause of popularity of syousetsu can be generally attributed to 3 WNs, as far as I am aware: Tate no Yuusha, Mushoku Tensei and Arifureta. Death March also, but to a much lesser extent.

I just don't see how SAO fits into that "role" of being the vanguard of the isekai trend. It feels off in so many ways.


EDIT: Why is this thread in the Recommendations sub-forum? Shouldn't it be in General Anime instead?

[RDNexus]

About SAO, my OP intends to go back to what made Isekai a trend first in Japan and then out here, not just the West.
What people over here may find most interesting and appealing may not be the same to the japanese folks. Still, it doesn't seem to stray much

About the thread being in this sub-forum... Some time ago, a Mod advised me to make threads like this one in this sub-forum.

[Rinvelt]

Originally Posted by xrick

That's where you're wrong, my friend. SAO WAS a WN before being officially published as a LN series, thanks to Accel World's publication.
As a WN, it ended on the recently finished Alicization Arc in the LNs. And, as far as I know, it was quite popular on Narou.

No, he's right, SAO was published on a personal site, not Narou. First Narou success was indeed Log Horizon.

[wuhugm]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

It's not. SAO doesn't even belong to the isekai subgenre. If SAO was responsible we'd get more Death game stories instead, but nothing like that happened.

Class Transfer to isekai is a death game in a sense

See first part of Genocide Reality
Suterareta Yuusha no Eiyuutan
Arifureta
etc etc
There are a lot

"Nothing like that happened" my ass

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by wuhugm

Class Transfer to isekai is a death game in a sense

See first part of Genocide Reality
Suterareta Yuusha no Eiyuutan
Arifureta
etc etc
There are a lot

"Nothing like that happened" my ass

SAO only cause the genre to boom, but like i said, SAO is responsible for none of the current template. The 1st template is MT, and successive series build upon the core of that template. SAO world building and writing style is vastly different from current Isekai trend. The only that SAO affect the most in my eye is introductions of OP protag, which other Isekai copy. The game turn real is responsible by both Overlord and Log Horizon, which set the template of game world = Isekai. Newer Isekai born by cutting bit of this side and add that side more. Re:Zero only share the world building, beside that, i hardly count Re: zero into the current trend