Schwarzesmarken - Novel Discussion

[grevierr]

Just read some more of Imouto Lyz background.

Spoiler for Imouto's background:

Spoiler for NTR warning. Do not read if you cannot take it.:

Lyz was captured and gangraped by the Stasi.
She wanted to give her first time to her brother.
Told that it was all recorded, and would be shown to her brother unless she does what they say.
She agrees. Axmann (The Stasi Armed Police Security Force "Grey Beast" as per chapter 2) was the one who broke her. He tells her after the first time "Don't worry, I won't be touching you. I'm a guy who likes cleanliness, and after your new friends had fun with you, you're filthy."
She undergoes training to be a fem-fatal sleeper operative, getting her body used to get information for the Stasi. She also ends up being the secret mistress for the Security Force. She believes Axmann planned to us her that way from the start.
Constantly crying for Oni-san to save her when she is alone, but knows her body is too defiled already, having lost count of how many had had her.
After the events in Schwarze with Irisdine getting captured, she is blindfolded in Theodore's arms, apparently before her execution at his hands (not sure about this until I read that part.)

[Fireminer]

What! I JUST CAN'T UNDERSTAND AGE'S TWISTED MIND!!!

Finally decided that gonna change that fact in mine Muv-Luv fic (but have to read more of this).

[Alastor Mobius Toth]

Originally Posted by grevierr

Just read some more of Imouto Lyz background.

Spoiler for Imouto's background:

Spoiler for NTR warning. Do not read if you cannot take it.:

Lyz was captured and gangraped by the Stasi.
She wanted to give her first time to her brother.
Told that it was all recorded, and would be shown to her brother unless she does what they say.
She agrees. Axmann (The Stasi Armed Police Security Force "Grey Beast" as per chapter 2) was the one who broke her. He tells her after the first time "Don't worry, I won't be touching you. I'm a guy who likes cleanliness, and after your new friends had fun with you, you're filthy."
She undergoes training to be a fem-fatal sleeper operative, getting her body used to get information for the Stasi. She also ends up being the secret mistress for the Security Force. She believes Axmann planned to us her that way from the start.
Constantly crying for Oni-san to save her when she is alone, but knows her body is too defiled already, having lost count of how many had had her.
After the events in Schwarze with Irisdine getting captured, she is blindfolded in Theodore's arms, apparently before her execution at his hands (not sure about this until I read that part.)

Oh man. I so wish I knew enough moonrunes to read this on my own; I do have that side-story, but I never read it in detail because of that, and unlike with Sylwia, the art is very non-indicative of what has happened. That said, Axmann did act like a complete ass in the beginning from my limited understanding, and I wondered what was with that...and now we know.

Spoiler for DRAMA:

Seriously, execution at this point is literally being mercy-kill for Liz. It also makes me wonder...If Liz's parents were executed, and Liz carried off to Stasi Rape Train, then what the hell did happen to Theodore? He does mention being "interrogated" (which probably involved having a car battery wired to his balls), but other than that, he was effectively left alone. That seems, a bit...well, weird, because I don't buy for a second that Axmann/Beatrix wouldn't fuck with him just to keep some sort of pseudo-bargain with Liz.

INB4 Theodore's real family (he's adopted after all) being some sort of big-wigs since Nazi Germany, and they covertly bailed him, leading Stasi to take out all their anger on Liz. But that's, uh, wild, wild speculation on my part.

Anyway, I am now seriously concerned for Irisdina's well-being, now that she's a guest at Stasi holding cells.

@Fire
Welcome to Communist block. The really scary part is that while it's somewhat exaggerated, it's not entirely baseless in real life. Stasi really was composed of the most fucked-up and ruthless people in the entire country. And they *loved* ruining people's lives for shit and giggles.

[grevierr]

Originally Posted by Alastor Mobius Toth

Spoiler for DRAMA:

Seriously, execution at this point is literally being mercy-kill for Liz. It also makes me wonder...If Liz's parents were executed, and Liz carried off to Stasi Rape Train, then what the hell did happen to Theodore? He does mention being "interrogated" (which probably involved having a car battery wired to his balls), but other than that, he was effectively left alone. That seems, a bit...well, weird, because I don't buy for a second that Axmann/Beatrix wouldn't fuck with him just to keep some sort of pseudo-bargain with Liz.

INB4 Theodore's real family (he's adopted after all) being some sort of big-wigs since Nazi Germany, and they covertly bailed him, leading Stasi to take out all their anger on Liz. But that's, uh, wild, wild speculation on my part.

Anyway, I am now seriously concerned for Irisdina's well-being, now that she's a guest at Stasi holding cells.

Theodore managed to join the army after getting tortured, though I'm not sure of the events leading to that since I haven't read that part. The NVA and Stasi are political rivals, so they couldn't really touch him without an excuse. That's why they had to send Lyz in to get Irisdine.

[Alastor Mobius Toth]

Yeah, I understand that.

My point is though, they already had him. If they really wanted to be evil, all they had to do was to let Beatrix into his cell, and let nature run its course.

They did it Liz with, why wouldn't they do it to Theodore?
...Unless of course, we just don't have that part of the story yet. Or because it was *that* horrible.

[grevierr]

One theory I have (based off several spy stories again) is that its an organization, without compartmentalized cells. So with Imouto already undergoing training, if they took in Theodore as well, there would be a risk of them meeting, thus spoiling the plan to use Lyz. They probably let him run loose to have a hold on Lyz. Not to mention that if Oni-chan knew Lyz was in with the Stasi, he would know who screwed him over as well, since he always thought she was dead.

[wavehawk]

Originally Posted by Alastor Mobius Toth

They did it Liz with, why wouldn't they do it to Theodore?

- Because they need Theodore for something. Something he wouldn't be able to do if he was already turned like Liz was. I haven't read much of Schwarzemarken to make a guess, but it would have to be something that would be at the very least predictable for Theodore to do, something he would not be able to do if he was already broken by the Stasi.

The question is what.

...or maybe Theodore is some sort of Manchurian Candidate.

[Alastor Mobius Toth]

@Grev

Fair point.

Of course, you could always use the argument that this knowledge could be used to break him further ("Your sister is alive, and working with us, and we can do anything to her., so keep quiet and do what we say"). He doesn't have to be work directly with Stasi - they had a huge army of informants, and they could use Liz as a leash for Theodore, while keeping Liz unaware of the situation. A bit risky perhaps, but workable.

@Wave
That would imply that Stasi would have to manipulate the army extensively to get Theodore where he is today...if they did that, they wouldn't really need Liz to get hard evidence on Irisdina.

Unless this is some kind of reverse-Xanatos speed chess gambit between Stasi leadership. One guy saves Theo, and expects him to go ballistic when he learns the truth; Theo instigates NVA revolt, and in process, a bunch of Stasi/NVA top guys kill each other. The instigator is then able to expand his power, because his rivals are dead.

You can say it's a....*draws glasses* Master plan. *YYYYEEEEAAAAHHHHH*

[Fireminer]

The stain of Communism must be burned. Maybe letting the Pact collapsed is not a bad idea after all!

(But then I wouldn't have my favorite Mig and Su. Just imagine Makabe in a crimson custom Mig-31. The Red Comet. Shirogane could be the White Shooting Star, too.)

Seriously, I don't understand you European! You're the start of many things, but also the end of a lot other.

[black knight iust]

Originally Posted by wavehawk

- Because they need Theodore for something. Something he wouldn't be able to do if he was already turned like Liz was. I haven't read much of Schwarzemarken to make a guess, but it would have to be something that would be at the very least predictable for Theodore to do, something he would not be able to do if he was already broken by the Stasi.

The question is what.

...or maybe Theodore is some sort of Manchurian Candidate.

(that movie was on last night)
maybe they hyprotized him or used some kind of subliminal message on him to have him do something when certine conditions are met. (something Russia did to Adam West in family guy.)

The stain of Communism must be burned. Maybe letting the Pact collapsed is not a bad idea after all!

I beleave this calls for something called ....... I bealeave political purge.

[wavehawk]

Originally Posted by Alastor Mobius Toth

You can say it's a....*draws glasses* Master plan. *YYYYEEEEAAAAHHHHH*

- And to maximize the effect: "Theodore...I am your father..."

Yeah, I went there... Seriously, though...that might even be plausible...

[black knight iust]

Originally Posted by wavehawk

- And to maximize the effect: "Theodore...I am your father..."

Yeah, I went there... Seriously, though...that might even be plausible...

I was waiting for Walter or what ever his name is to go. Theo ....... I am.... your father.

[ServantOfPriss]

Welp, so much for my hopes of Beatrix getting out of this alive.

Because as evil as she is (I heard she "rapes" Pham once), she's just too damn...good, to put it in a way.

I really wish CARNELIAN makes an artbook exclusively for the Schwarzesmarken girls, 30 pages for each.

[wavehawk]

Originally Posted by ServantOfPriss

Welp, so much for my hopes of Beatrix getting out of this alive.

Because as evil as she is (I heard she "rapes" Pham once), she's just too damn...good, to put it in a way.

- "And, behold, here cometh a chariot of men, with a couple of horsemen. And he answered and said, Babylon is fallen, is fallen; and all the graven images of her gods he hath broken unto the ground."

I'd imagine that...if the writer of Schwarze did more research, I could imagine Irisdina making this quote in comment on the Stasi...

[black knight iust]

Originally Posted by wavehawk

- "And, behold, here cometh a chariot of men, with a couple of horsemen. And he answered and said, Babylon is fallen, is fallen; and all the graven images of her gods he hath broken unto the ground."

I'd imagine that...if the writer of Schwarze did more research, I could imagine Irisdina making this quote in comment on the Stasi...

y do I suddenly think of this song after reading that
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9IfHDi-2EA

[Alastor Mobius Toth]

So, this was posted on YouTube today:

Basically, Schwarzesmarken VN preview.


And yes, everyone is speaking entirely in German. I can't really say how accurate it is, but it sounds quite fluent. I'm kinda not really sure about the voice that's supposed to be Irisdina; she sounds way too young for me, especially when compared to Katia.

Too bad we don't get to hear Beatrix, but then again, universe might have ended if we did that.

Anyway, my hype. It is on. Things are looking up this time.

[Sumeragi]

I need to fund this.

Irisdine and Lyz..... their voices are perfect.

[ServantOfPriss]

Originally Posted by Alastor Mobius Toth

So, this was posted on YouTube today:

Basically, Schwarzesmarken VN preview.


And yes, everyone is speaking entirely in German. I can't really say how accurate it is, but it sounds quite fluent. I'm kinda not really sure about the voice that's supposed to be Irisdina; she sounds way too young for me, especially when compared to Katia.

Too bad we don't get to hear Beatrix, but then again, universe might have ended if we did that.

Anyway, my hype. It is on. Things are looking up this time.

All this Ostalgie...

Those are genuine Germans. Look at the credits. Irisdina is voiced by an...Irisdina.

This must be made into a VN, or an anime, and have Ai Orikasa as Beatrix.

[Mazryonh]

Originally Posted by Alastor Mobius Toth

Basically, Schwarzesmarken VN preview.

And yes, everyone is speaking entirely in German. I can't really say how accurate it is, but it sounds quite fluent. Anyway, my hype. It is on. Things are looking up this time.

I wonder if anyone "in the know" here can confirm whether this German is period-accurate to East Germany in the 1980s. It's not usual for the Japanese to go "whole-hog" on this sort of thing. Still, it's no guarantee that the whole VN will be like this.

Originally Posted by ServantOfPriss

All this Ostalgie...

Those are genuine Germans. Look at the credits. Irisdina is voiced by an...Irisdina.

Actually, Irisdina's German voice actress' first name is just listed as "Iris" in this video.

And frankly, this does put a bit of a damper on my hopes. Given the expense of outsourcing voice recording to a German studio, it's likely that this VN will just be a kinetic novel retelling of the novels with more CG art and voiced dialogue (to cut down on the expense of voicing different routes).

I was also hoping that this would be an 18+ visual novel (Carnelian's specialty). If indeed this is going to be entirely recorded in German, there goes that possibility, since I doubt that the Germans have an equivalent to how Japanese seiyuus can make (censored) noises for eroges/H-OVAs (albeit under pseudonyms) and still have a respectable day job.

Originally Posted by ServantOfPriss

This must be made into a VN, or an anime, and have Ai Orikasa as Beatrix.

I would have preferred someone like Hitomi Nabatame or Ryouko Tanaka myself, since both are quite capable of voicing "femme-fatale" characters with deep voices very well and have had plenty of experience making (censored) noises for 18+ media. If it's not going to be 18+, someone like Sayaka Ohara or Atsuko Tanaka could work great.

[faiz blaster]

Originally Posted by ServantOfPriss

All this Ostalgie...

Those are genuine Germans. Look at the credits. Irisdina is voiced by an...Irisdina.

This must be made into a VN, or an anime, and have Ai Orikasa as Beatrix.

Why her? I know some of her works and while she is good I can't see how she would fit for Beatrix.