[Umineko] Fan Fic EPX: The Witch of Despair VS Animesuki Detectives!

[Nadeor]

Originally Posted by Exilon

Ok, I'm ready to make a big post. :P
*Listening to worldenddomiantor and system0 while writing, to get in the mood*

Hum.... I think I'll say no to the trade, for now. Because it'll make us suppose more, and that's not really something I want. I'd prefer working with sure facts than suppositions like "more than half of x were at y, unless more than z was x" and things like that. --' If the witch would like to propose other trades, though, I will happily consider them.

Also, hi to the members of the chinese community ^^ I promise I'll try hard to defeat the witch of despair

Spoiler for mistake?:

This is quoted from the second morning.

"The three of them decided to check the guest hotel, and see what they can find; maybe the six of them had something urgent and had to go back to the guest hotel.
But, metaphorically quoting, to their surprise, the six of them are not in the guest hotel, the only one’s who were there are Rosa, Maria and the five servants: Kanon, Shannon, Gohda, Gumasawa and Genji, who were about to depart to the main building to make breakfast. As they were about to take their leave, they bumped into the three who rushed into the building like maniacs."

Am I missing something or Nanjo, that was supposed to be there, is missing? He appears in the next few lines, though. He was also staying at the guest hotel.

Spoiler:

Hum... I guess I'll start at the beginning.
Preivously, Nadeor told us to try and find the incident trigger.

So, in the first day:

- Eva has a certain plan that she wants to put into motion, probably with the objective of getting more money for herself. She knows something about Natsuhi and Krauss that we don't know about.
- Krauss is very greedy, and he wants to keep the money for himself. We know from one of the red statements that he loves Jessica, so he would do many things for her. However, his love for Natsuhi is questionable. He is also accused by Kinzo of not being able to tunk up of the consequences of his acts. Could this be a motive or a reason?
- About Rudolf, very little is known, so we don't know if he wants money or not.
- Although it seems Rosa needs money, she doesn't believe she can snatch any penny arguing with them. She could choose other methods, though. Also, with one of the red statements, we know she hates her siblings, and doesn't have that much of a connection with anyone else. But we know she's not the murderer, so she can be either an accomplice or the culprit. Her alibi is very weak anyway. Her knowledge of narcotics would help her if she wants to make Maria sleep for any reason, so she doesn't witness anything that Rosa doesn't want to.

The first twilight has many hindrances to it.
First, the only ones that can be safely ruled out of having been directly involved in it are the servants. Because,

1) Even though the three shown were "unconscious", they could be faking it.
2) Rosa's knowledge on narcotics. She could have drugged her child and left though the window. Same for Nanjo.
3) The other 6 just don't have any kind of alibi.

So, before anything else, WE NEED TO SORT OUT THE FIRST NIGHT, before we can try to solve the mystery itself.

But, one thing is certain. If someone died in the living room, it wasn't that night, but in the morning. So we can safely assume at least four of them were somehow moved (either by themselves or by someone moving them) out of the living room.
And into the woods. Which leads to my next point, maybe Krauss did see Jessica. But, from the red statement, if it was Jessica, she was just the accomplice. So she could have helped moving the bodies; maybe she doesn't know of the culprit's plan and thinks she's "being the accomplice" for another reason. Or she's luring the others; this is a very plausible possibility, because hanging six people needs time. Which makes me suspicious of Rosa, who purposedly stayed behind, although at this time no one was found dead yet. So, with this, we can rule out the ones that went to the woods. Meaning that one of the other 7 are at least the accomplices of the first twilight.

Spoiler for first twilight:

At least one of these people is somehow involved in the first twilight (in the morning), so at least one of these is the first twilight's accomplice:
- Kinzo
- Jessica (Suspicious. Krauss isn't psychic. I don't think he sees ghosts.)
- Natsuhi (Bread crumbs? ... no comments.)
- Hideyoshi
- George (not very suspicious; would he hurt Shannon?)
- Kyrie
- Battler (not very suspicious, he is "new" to the meetings)
- Rosa (HIGHLY suspicious. But it's the witch of despair after all,so...)
- Maria (Yeah, right. Maybe SHE is the culprit after all, but still...for the sake of my sanity, let's just be realistic.)

Rosa's actions are also quite weird, or at least the timeframe is. so she goes to the fridge, and takes out some cake for Maria. Since the fridge is found empty later on, this could suggest some things:
1) She drugged Maria (put something in the cake) so she would sleep. This way, Rosa can do whatever she wants, like helping hanging the first six.
2) The cake was the last thing on the fridge.
3) Maria and rosa decided to end the fridge's stash food.
4) Someone (or she) took the food out and took it to the forest or the place where "someone" is hiding.
The mud she found on the carpet is most likely dirt that someone left when they entered (after all, it's raining heavily outside.).

Later, they all returned to the guest hotel. (Genji seeing things at the forest, could have either been someone hiding, or just his imagination.) Of course, rosa is nowhere to be found (what a surprise.). I'm ignoring the ashes Nanjo found on his tray, they might have some significance, but I see none for now.

In the main building, dinnaly the first six are found. I have explained this before.. the culprit just used the windows, so this isn't really a closed room, despite what's written in the text. ...also, one of the red statements from nadeor bugs me. they are not definitly dead, but they are indeed dead. So.. what the heck? Does this mean that some of them are not dead, but faking it? their faces are perfectly fine, so body-faking is not possible. (I guess.) and Nanjo also confirms their deaths, so if they're not really dead... then Nanjo is an accomplice as well; maybe he is being blackmailed. After all, there's one thing you can't fake- heartbeats. and if someone did use a fake body, Nanjo would notice it.

Next up, Genji calls out Krauss alone. ...this is highly intruiguing, at least for me. why would he do it? There isn't much infomration on this yet, so I'm not going to analyse this further, but maybe Kinzo asked of this, or Genji is an accomplice (I doubt this though.) And finnaly, the second twilight, even though Krauss and Kinzo weren't really close. for this first scene, I doubt this didn't happen, because we have an omniscient point of view. We only know that Krauss was pulling the trigger. about their dialogue, maybe they were talking about the inheritance?

Now, after this, Rosa and Genji arrive. Notice that what we are told is told from rosa's perspective, so things might have not happened the way they say it did. ... And if that is so, then Genji is necessarily involved. (He could be being blackmailed.) I think Rosa's description is a little far-fecthed as well, because if what she said is true, then it would mean that she returned to the main building even before the first six were hanged, ...and was somewhere where she couldn't hear, see or smell anything of what was happening in the living room. ... And it would also mean that she didn't hear the six come in, see the bodies, leave, and then Genji and Krauss coming back. Sorry, but for me, this is just practically impossible. Either Rosa lied or she's paranoid, or she's involved with this.

they return to the main building and find that Kinzo and Krauss disappeared. Oh, what a big surprise. I wonder where they went. If we're unlucky, then Krauss, Rosa and Genji are all in this togheter, or Rosa is the one being blackmailed. Either way, the living room door that's opened seems like a red herring to me. I mean, DEAD people don't walk. Unless they're NOT DEAD. This kinda interferes with one of Nadeor's red statements.

Whoever left the letter in Kinzo's room, either:
1) Wanted the money to be distributed like this (and which one of the siblings in their right minds would want this, I guess)
2) Doesn't really care for the money, the will was written by Kinzo, and has a completely different intention.

However, someone left the witch's note in the same fashion as the first twilight. either this is the same culprit or some other culprit took advantage of it. However, if the there are two different culprit's, and the first twilight's culprit left the first note, I don't see why he/she would not want to continue the twilights; unless his/her plan was stolen. (EP3 anyone?)

Spoiler for second twilight:

At least one of these is directly involved with the second twilight:

-Kinzo
-Krauss
-Genji
-Rosa

-Natsuhi
-Jessica
-Hideyoshi
-George
-Kyrie
-Battler

-Maria (she is able to write, after all.) -.-' <-- not taking this one seriously.

and now, for one of the most controversial parts of this whole EPX!!!

"“I…Impossible…But…But how…Can this be…?”
Shannon and Kanon, who remained on the side, noticed something wrong about Nanjo, and both of them had a different look on their faces.
Sometime unnoticed, a murderous scent was delivered by somebody.
Then, when everyone started thinking, a shadow secretly moved behind Nanjo, and whispered something into his ears without anyone noticing. Nanjo immediately froze, and unable to speak another word due to the fear that pressed against him."

...........What?! ...I don't know how I'm suppoed to analyse this; I mean, Nanjo is not alone, yet "something"whispered" in his ear. And what did he notice? Could it have been some message he saw, or soemthing that wasn't supposed to be there and the writer is just "metaphorically speaking"?

And now for the final part, which is a complete meltdown. Motives for the final twilights are kinda unknown, but if we follow the red statements, then at least one of the servants is involved. Also, Rosa appears out of nowhere and knocks on the door of the main building. If I recall correctly, and if the background setting is the same, the meeting room isn't the only room in the guest hotel that has a TV. Pff, and what if rosa was the one to lock the door, purposedly? Once again, the windows of this room could have been used, but it is weird how the servants keys appeared there. ...One (very awkward) possibility is that one of them snatched the keys of the servant's room while Eva and Rudolf were talking, or that someone else entered the building without them noticing and stole them.

this turned out to be quite a huge post, but hopefully this will help clear many stuff and open ways to new theories. Meanwhile, Nadeor, have fun torturing us~
Requests for recitals will begin spamming soon enough, teehee~

Eh...sorry about that, I guessed I missed Nanjo while translating.
Hold on, let me go fix it...

It sure looks like to me that you guys are getting the hang of this thing
but will you be able to defeat the witch-sama?
Remember, it was 14 to 1 last round, and yet it all came down to nothing

[Nadeor]

Well actually you guys are torturing me Exilon =.=
I will have to translate that much to chinese for those guys...
And the Solution Arc is about...3 times longer than the Question Arc...
Spare me, Witch-sama T.T

So I guess since nobody else replied, the deal is off then...
Alright, got that~

[Asashio123]

Great analysis, Exilon. Stuff like that is really helpful to people like me. XDD

And of course, I'll say "hello" to the Chinese Umineko Community.

Spoiler for Recitals:

Anyways, now that the deal is called off, I'll ask for some recitals.

'Murderer' and 'culprit' are referring to the same person.
Someone on the island, other than Kinzo, has their own gun.
Nanjo did not lie about anyone's death.
At least one of the first six victims died naturally.
The removed shrine mentioned at the beginning has some significance to the murders.

And also,

All of the 'survivors' of the incident are perfectly alive and well in the current day. (Well refers to both physically, and mentally.)

The last one probably won't help with solving the mystery, but meh.

[Nadeor]

Spoiler for Recitals:

Someone on the island, other than Kinzo, has their own gun.
Nanjo did not lie about anyone's death, but he is not always sure.
At least one Of the First six victims died naturally.

All of the survivors of the incident are perfectly alive and well in the current day. The 'well' here refers to both physically and mentally.

[Nadeor]

Extra supports from the chinese side:

Spoiler for 2nd wave of Recitals:

Natsuhi's death is somewhat connected with the 'secret' which Nanjo had told Eva.
Natsuhi has some connections to the shrine

[Asashio123]

Very interesting...

Spoiler for Response to 'Recitals':

Then, I'm thinking that Natsuhi died naturally (as deducted from her headaches, and Nanjo and Eva's discussion, it seems that she had some sort of illness, and died of that, as opposed to being murdered). If she was ill, this can also explain Krauss and Eva's 'discussion' after dinner.

So, in that case, please recite;
Natsuhi died of natural causes.

Wow, this is getting quite fun. Thank you to the Chinese forum for extra help and such, thanks to Nadeor for volunteering to translate both EPX and our responses, and of course, thanks to the Witch-sama for bringing up such an interesting mystery. (Of course, I'm not trying to suck up to you guys, ahah~)

[Goose Boy]

Im stressed.... but well we know that the Whole thing is connected to...

Spoiler for Something that almost surely is wrong:

Im coming frustrated... but... anyways...
Natsuhi had some connection with the shrine... what connection would have a high class lady with religion? its silly... what about if she tried to "free" the witch so she can help her with her "problem".... or simply she didnt liked it and asked krauss to dump it away...

If her sickness is related to the shrine AND is something to be shamed about AND causes headaches AND she didnt wanted to taste gohda´s food... she is anorexic.... but i cant see its connection to the shrine... or she thinks oyashiro sama wants to punish her .... because she stole the mirror and maked her look fat or anything like that... women are so complex....

But well it is also related to jessica and the other things... and krauss couldnt kill his own daughter nor eva nor rudolf... must be a servant...

The red text said it all alone: it is kumazawa or gohda... why the old hag and fat man would kill their misstress? it is nonsense... they must fellhatred.
GOHDA NO, he pleased natsuhi too many times... but the envious old hag could... also she had acces to the tea... but it is only the 1st twilight the others i dunno... the ... are so annoying right?...

Genji is totally sure that killed krauss as kinzo (had) a heart attack and blamed him... he knew kumazawa´s intentions and feeled regreted of it in the "servants massacre room" and... the GREAT UMINEKO DISASTER ocurred...

Want the following in red:
-Krauss was killed by a gun.
-Genji respected krauss

[Nadeor]

Alright Then~=v=+

Spoiler for Recitals:

Krauss was killed by a gun
Genji respected krauss
and also...
The Forest has Nothing To do with this entire incident
The envelopes which contains the copies of the epitaph, were all made by the same person. By 'Made' meant putting the copy of the epitaph inside the Envelope, then sealing it.

[Nadeor]

Oh, something from the Witch of Despair herself:

Spoiler for From the Witch:

I am here to apologize on an issue regarding to the story
Appearently, when I designed the chessboard, I forgot to put in the Storage House (EP1 first Twilight) and the Chapel (EP2 first Twilight) in here.
So yes, just to make it fair:

The Storage House and the Chapel from the original work has nothing to do with anything in this EPX, just treat it as if it never existed.

And here for some more recitals:

Spoiler for More Recitals:

The copies of the Epitaph and the Will are in separate envelopes

For Exilon:
-Kinzo's will which was left in his study, was left there under the knowledge of the Culprit
-Rosa knew the reason of which why Maria went to 'sleep', by 'sleep' here meant a state of unconsciousness.
-If 'Oyashiro-sama' exists in this story, then 'Oyashiro-sama no Tatari' will not fall upon the straight and honest Natsuhi.
-Natsuhi's death has somewhat a connection with the killings
-Natsuhi did not die of Anorexia (This one's for Goose Boy to praise his imagination)

[Asmodeus]

Spoiler:

-natsuhi die was an accident
-The murderers couldn't be Kanon & Kumasawa
-Eva is the murderer and Nanjo knows it

[Golden Witch Drugs]

Here we go then :3

Spoiler for Recitals:

- The tea was drugged
- Rudolf is a smoker
- The bread crums on Natsuhi's dress were from the cake that Rosa fetched for Maria
- The culprit always took the keys and put them in the envelopes
- Nanjo knows who the culprit is
- The shadow that whispered something chocking to Nanjo was the culprit
- At least one of all the victims took suicide

[Nadeor]

Spoiler for Recitals:

-Rudolf is a smoker, so are Hideyoshi and Krauss
-Nanjo knows Who the culprit is
-The Bread Crumbs on Natsuhi's dress were NOT from the cake Rosa fetched for Maria
-The shadow that whispered something chocking to Nanjo could be the accomplice, culprit or the Murderer

[Exilon]

Just a reminder to everyone. Treat what's written in black as the opposite in red. (Don't make this a constante rule, though.)

I'll post some requests later on. Be ready for a huge load. Nadeor~ :P

[Goose Boy]

Okkk.... natsuhi is the most enigmastic here... i dont have so much time so....

Spoiler for More:

Natsuhi is hated by her servants... except gohda who wanted to kill kumazawa... XXX im in ahurry

[Goose Boy]

One more thing... want the following in red:

Spoiler for STATEMENTS:

-Natsuhi faked her headache of the first night.
-The conditon natsuhi has is embarrasing
-The culprit had respect to natsuhi.
-Kyrie seducted the killer ( thetie /breast thing)

[ClockWorkAngel]

Time for part two.

Also could you recite the ones from part one?

Spoiler for Recitals:

Kinzo was one who wrote the will.
Natsuhi is suffering from an illness.
The item that Eva is threatening Krauss with is directly about Natsuhi.
Jessica was the first to go to Natsuhi's room after Natsuhi entered it.
Natsuhi was still alive when Jessica went into her room.
Jessica discovered Natsuhi's body.
CLARIFY: The Blonde Person Krauss saw running was not the culprit, the murderer, or the accomplice and The person Krauss saw was Jessica. What did Krauss see?
Krauss saw Jessica's body.
The murderer, culprit or an accomplice had moved through the guest house during that time frame.

Spoiler for Part Two:

[Morning 8:15]

POI: The bread crumbs could be from many things, and I wouldn't at all be surprised to know that the crumbs were perhaps poisoned or drugs.

RECITE: The bread crumbs on Natsuhi's dress were from something she ate.
RECITE: Natsuhi was given a drug.

So we find the bodies hanging all pretty like in a locked room. How convient. It's great that Genji has a key right? So convient~!

RECITE: The door to the living room was not locked.
RECITE: Genji only pretended to unlock the door.

[Morning 9:40]

Krauss would not shoot Kinzo, and to add to that, no one heard the gunshot.

POI: Genji is the only one witnessing this. He's really suspicious, but it might only be coincidents.

RECITE: Genji witnessed Krauss shooting Kinzo.
RECITE: Genji shot Krauss. He also shot Kinzo.

But I really doubt it.

[Noon 12:00]

People leaving the guest house to die. We can be sure that Eva, Rudolf and Nanjo did not commit these murders.

[Afternoon 13:30]

Now everyone else dies, nice to see no?

POI: Rosa could probably have killed those guys while Maria was sleeping, I'm in that group that believes Maria was drugged. Besides, she had 3 and a half hours, it wouldn't be hard.

[Afternoon 14:00]

THe discovery of the corpses. Nothing much to say.

POI: Rosa hasn't lost her child, she's really lucky!

That is to say, she is still the most suspicious, but we'll see.

[Exilon]

Here comes the load! ^^ Please bear with me, witch-sama, but I have not asked for anything in a while. So excuse me if this looks too much.

Spoiler for asked for recital:

- Eva's plan involves Battler, George, Krauss, Jessica or/and Natsuhi.
- Rudolf is not in need of money.
- Krauss would never hurt Jessica, directly or indirectly.
- Krauss doesn't really care about Natsuhi's death.
- Someone died in the living room.
- Jessica is an accomplice.
- There is "magic" involved in the culprit's motive.
- The culprit of the first twilight is the same culprit of all the other twilights.
- Rosa is an accomplice.
- Rosa is being blackmailed.
- The three that woke up togheter in the morning were all drugged.
- Everyone that was in the meeting the first night, was drugged.
- Neither Natsuhi nor Kinzo were murdered.
- Krauss was shotm and this is what provoked his death.
- Kinzo wrote the will that is read by the gang.
- By the morning of the second day (after 5:00 AM), not all of the first six were dead.
- Natsuhi has a plan.
- Genji is an accomplice.
- Genji killed Krauss.
- Some characters are being blackmailed, aside from Krauss.
- Love is involved in the reason of why some characters were killed.
- Before the fourth until the eight twilight, some servants have a discussion.
- The discussion mentioned in the statement above, did not lead to the death of any of the servants.
- When they are found after the eight twilight, all of the servants are definitly dead.
- One of the first six is not actually dead, when Nanjo confirms his/her death.
- Rosa lied about having seen Kinzo and Krauss after their discussion.
- Rosa's action mentioned in the statement above, was not forced. She did it voluntarily and not because she was being forced to.
- Rosa drugged or sedated Maria to make her sleep at least once.
- None of the murders were motivated by anger or rage.
- Kanon doesn't approve of Shannon's relationship with George, and could bring himself to kill George.
- George and Battler are only victims; they are not the murderer, the culprit or the accomplice of any form.
- What Kinzo and Krauss are talking about when they're discussing is the will/inheritance.
- The division of the money is the reason why Krauss is angered at Kinzo during the time they are discussing.

:P That's all. For now. I think I overdid it, though. meh--' sorry Witch-sama!

Edit: lol, some of the things I asked for were also asked by CWA in the previous post. Same line of thought :P

[Nadeor]

OMFG you guys are really trying to kill me aren't you O_O
Despite that I'm the Twilight Envoy, I am still not as powerful as Witch-sama...
However, here're SOME of your recitals.
Do not JUST YET take those which I did not recite as refused, I will tell you guys when I complete the list, since some of them requires the witch of Despair herself to see it.
Some cheerings from the Chinese side, wishing you the best and they are really impressed of how awesome you guys are doing.

Looks like two weeks really are a lil bit too long =v=

Spoiler for RECITALS (Not yet Complete):

Kinzo was one who wrote the will.
Natsuhi is suffering from an illness.
The item that Eva is threatening Krauss with is directly about Natsuhi.
Eva's plan involves Battler, George, Krauss, Jessica but not necessarily Natsuhi.
Rudolf is not in a real need of money, despite of what it was told in the original work, but Rudolf was definitely needing a general sum, just not as greedy as the rest of his siblings.
There is magic involved in the culprit's motive.
Neither Natsuhi Nor Kinzo was murdered
Love is involved in the reason of some characters' death
Kanon doesn't approve of Shannon's relationship with George
George and Battler are only victims; they are not the murderer, the culprit or the accomplice of any form.

Wow you guys are good...O_O
Two weeks really are too much for you guys to get closer to the truth...I should have limit it down to one week...
Guess I should eliminate more recitals =_=|||

[Exilon]

Well, I'll be waiting for all the recitals to be posted. AAW Nadeor, don't make it harder than what it already is... <<

Is Natsuhi's illness a real one? Hum, I recall looking in wikipedia for headaches as a symptom right when I played EP1 because her headaches were quite suspicious but I didn't come up with anything out of the ordinary.

Spoiler:

Well, seems I was rewarded with some recitals, and good ones, too. =) this should help clear many things up. but now we get one more question to solve. If magic is involved in the culprit's reason... ...what did the culprit really want to accomplish? From what it seems, none of the greedy siblings have caused this. (Kinzo's will). this might exclude Eva and Krauss hinting that Eva had a plan that was, well, screwed up because of someone else's plan.
also, what is this? Battler and George, possible murders? Oh, interesting! I wonder if they knew about Eva's plan. ...I've an idea for the next recital request, teehee~ ^.^

[Goose Boy]

Im terribel at this... but now i return to my rosa theory....

Spoiler for More:

Rosa did it all... but wasnt the culprit.... and due to my other theory about kanon... i will link both together with the envious hag...
Now i need some answer before formulating any theory:

-The culprit is the mastermind and can be also more people.
-There is only one culprit, the others are accomplices.