2020 US Presidential Election Discussion (primary & general)

[Guardian Enzo]

Not to mention felony bank fraud. The presidency really is the only thing keeping him from being in prison for life, which is why he'll burn the country to the ground before he gives it up.

[Jaden]

A true American would say the real tragedy is how the government stole €750 from Trump.

[cyberdemon]

A true American would hold him accountable

[ganbaru]

It do not say anything about the probably-illegal part of the latest leak but still might interest some peoples here.

Saagar Enjeti: Dems, Never Trumpers Forget They ARCHITECTED Corrupt Tax Code Gamed By Trump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBBz45PbheI

[Guardian Enzo]

G*d damn, what a shitshow that was.

[Magin]

I keep hearing that the debate was nothing but a pure shitshow. And yet... I'm pretty sure that's what's been said about at least one presidential debate every time there's an election.

Let's wait to find out if there'll even be a second one. Oh wait- the media is LOVING the attention, so of course there's going to be more (gotta be talked about to get tons of ratings)

[Guardian Enzo]

No.

This was not what was said about prior debates - because this was not prior debates. This was an out of control sociopath on a crack rant.

[The Green One]

Is there even a point in having any more debates if this behavior is all that's going to happen?

[Magin]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

This was not what was said about prior debates - because this was not prior debates. This was an out of control sociopath on a crack rant.

Sorry, but going to have to refute this one. In primaries, Obama vs Clinton. Maybe Obama vs McCain wasn't horrible. Obama vs Romney, I think called a shitshow at least once. Then Dem primaries again- Clinton vs Sanders. Then of course, Trump vs Clinton.

In all those, according to Internet folk, it was "what a shitshow" or "what a mess"

Of course, Republican primaries are just low-hanging fruit.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by The Green One

Is there even a point in having any more debates if this behavior is all that's going to happen?

Biden will show up if they hold them, because Trump hurts himself more than anything with a display like this (as the polls and focus groups show). You'd like to think the next moderator will at least try and keep Crackhead Don under control, but who knows?

However, I do think there's a very real chance Trump may bail on subsequent debates because as it becomes more and more apparent that he's going to lose big, his strategy will be to deligitimize the process as much as possible.

[SeijiSensei]

I'm with Dan Balz on the Washington Post on this one:

No one alive has ever seen a presidential debate like Tuesday night’s unseemly shout fest between President Trump and former vice president Joe Biden — 90 minutes of invective, interruptions and personal insults. It was an insult to the public as well, and a sad example of the state of American democracy five weeks before the election.

This has been called the most important election in generations — some say in the life of the country. But that’s not what people who tuned in saw. Partisans will call winners and losers as they see them, and those judgments will be predictable. Collectively, this was not a night when the country could claim victory. Instead, it was quite the opposite.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...0ea_story.html

No debate I've watched, and I've seen many, came close to last night's horror show.

[monir]

Originally Posted by Magin

In all those, according to Internet folk, it was "what a shitshow" or "what a mess"

Not even close.

First thing first... you can't refute anything when you don't seem to have seen many of them. This wasn't a debate, especially at this stage of this election. I don't remember a presidential debate such as this. You can very easily see for yourself by pulling up a few videos on youtube. Even the primaries, GOP and Dems, aren't anything like this. Again, you can go to youtube and watch them for yourselves.

This was appalling. This was atrocious. Don't know who lost, but I'm certain neither can claim to be a winner here. Yuck!

[Key Board]

Does it matter if it hurts Trump?

Are there really any fence sitters this late into the election?

If you had issue with Trump before, this won't change your vote.
And if you're a trump supporter, it won't either.

If someone is still a fence sitter this late, and I think they 'll probably stay a fence sitter to the end and probably not vote at all.
Because clearly they don't understand or care about the issues enough.

Who is this debate for, really?

//

[Magin]

Originally Posted by monir

Not even close.

First thing first... you can't refute anything when you don't seem to have seen many of them. This wasn't a debate, especially at this stage of this election. I don't remember a presidential debate such as this. You can very easily see for yourself by pulling up a few videos on youtube. Even the primaries, GOP and Dems, aren't anything like this. Again, you can go to youtube and watch them for yourselves.

This was appalling. This was atrocious. Don't know who lost, but I'm certain neither can claim to be a winner here. Yuck!

Just to be pedantic, because I do agree that it was horrible... though mind you, I haven't actually watched a debate since probably before Obama was President... I think Trump vs Clinton was on about the same level: Trump being Trump, interrupting, going over time, etc... I clearly remember that debate session also being called a shitshow.

[monir]

Originally Posted by Magin

Just to be pedantic, because I do agree that it was horrible... though mind you, I haven't actually watched a debate since probably before Obama was President... I think Trump vs Clinton was on about the same level: Trump being Trump, interrupting, going over time, etc... I clearly remember that debate session also being called a shitshow.

Did you see this? You will need to see at least a snippet of this to get a grasp of why it is considered nothing like past presidential debates. Trump vs Hilary debates were nothing like this. Not even close. Watch a few ones after watching this and then you can sidestep the other people's opinion on what's called shitshow.

[Sheba]

Fence sitters and/or those who call themselves libertarians are not going to do anything. This is what I got from social networks. They will not show up (and those are almost forgiven) and there are those who stated they will show up but vote for whatever unicorn candidates they have in mind.

Look guys, the two party systems sucked ass, we all know that. You want to sabotage the system to make a point? EVERYONE in democracies said that. Instead we got Brexit, we got the French having to chose between a candidate who is in bed with the rich or a raging nationalist lunatic, and we got Trump.
You will never have the guts to go in the streets and overthrow the system because you know very well it means renouncing a life of comfort, barely held together by the governments. But you are perfectly fine inflicting misery on the rest of the people who are not you. This is how the average joe in the future will judge you.

[Jaden]

Trump was the exact same as he's been in the press rooms for the past 4 years. No filter, no manners, no humility, total "King of America" attitude. It's kinda mesmerising to watch.

Watching Biden makes me kinda nervous, I keep anticipating that he loses his cool and focus around Trump. This time, he held it together for the most part.

I imagine Biden will get a small bump if all the debates go like this, since it's reassuring to people like Joe Rogan, who had concerns about Biden's mental acuity, and thus couldn't quite get on the Biden train despite being left-leaning.

Fence-sitters are always going to exist, since it's not like most people feel that threatened by an election result. They're gonna get by regardless.

[OH&S]

A range of analyses and reactions from slightly left leaning YouTube news show host PhillyD to the anarchist left-wing Vaush.

Philip DeFranco:

YouTube

https://youtu.be/Sm3pGT7FhyU

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Kyle Kulinski:

YouTube

https://youtu.be/cGUAQs5Xyns

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David Pakman:

YouTube

https://youtu.be/cp3v8ZDu2_E

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James Vaush:

YouTube

https://youtu.be/ooTm8mCP4Gc

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The consensus being: yeah America lost. But if forced to choose, Biden came across better solely due to Trump being an unhinged authoritarian maniac.

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by Key Board

Are there really any fence sitters this late into the election?

The summary at FiveThirtyEight shows Biden at 50.6% and Trump at 42.9%. That leaves about 6-7% undecideds. People who are still undecided at this point are less likely to vote than partisans, so of that 7% perhaps four won't vote. That leaves three percent to divide among the candidates. Even if Trump took them all he'd still be far away from victory.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...eral/national/

In contrast, on October 1, 2016, fully sixteen percent was undecided. Clinton lead Trump 43.5-40.5.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...ational-polls/

[kari-no-sugata II]

Trump's running out of time for sure. 538 are giving him a ~20% chance currently but that's only because there's still about a month to go - if the election was tomorrow there'd be no time for a turnaround and his odds would be about 10%.

But instead of turning things around he's digging himself in deeper...

Fingers crossed for a clear and decisive result on election night (looks more likely than before).