Off-Topic Discussion Related to the Weapony shown in the GGO Anime

[bietchie11]

Just let me ask you a question. When you are a sniper that aim to kill people, which gun will you choose.

M82A1 or M40A1?

[DMurphy]

M82A1. Longer effective firing range. Apparently.

(No, I don't know that just off the bat, I spent about five minutes on Google trying to find a satisfactory answer to said question.)

[bietchie11]

Ok, one guy, 3 to go.

That's the question for anyone reply to my previous comment.

[Znail]

Originally Posted by bietchie11

Just let me ask you a question. When you are a sniper that aim to kill people, which gun will you choose.

M82A1 or M40A1?

Only advantage of the M40 is less weight to carry around.

[bietchie11]

No more guy. Ok let's me answer this.

The right question is M40A1.

For the intent role, you can say the only thing M82A1 has over M40A1 is power/"damage".
Which actually means nothing.
I will post more details why it is so later, right now i got to go.
Peace!!!

P/S: GGO reminds me of Battle Royale in ARMA 3.

[Znail]

Originally Posted by bietchie11

No more guy. Ok let's me answer this.

The right question is M40A1.

For the intent role, you can say the only thing M82A1 has over M40A1 is power/"damage".
Which actually means nothing.
I will post more details why it is so later, right now i got to go.
Peace!!!

P/S: GGO reminds me of Battle Royale in ARMA 3.

This is not true. Other advantages for the M82:
Shorter time before the bullet reaches the target, ie less need to lead the target.
Less impact from winds.
Can mount better scopes. The scope used by Sinon in this episode would be pointless on an M40 as the drop off and wind drift would force you to aim so far away from the target that you can't see the target.
Semi-automatic fire lets you hit multiple targets before the sound of the first shot arrives.

The only advantage for the M40 is that it's easier to carry around. But it has no advantages in putting the bullet where it counts.

[Esebian]

Originally Posted by bietchie11

Just let me ask you a question. When you are a sniper that aim to kill people, which gun will you choose.

M82A1 or M40A1?

Well I personally would need more info for that question: in real life or in GGO? (I take the same scenario as granted ;-))

In real life I would take the M40 anytime over the Barret.

Reasons for that: The barret is the sniper with the most recoil I know of, it is impossible to shoot it standing without breaking both your arms, possibly even killing you.

That sniper is used as an anti-materiel rifle meaning its power is used to get through amouring, not to shoot at normal people.

The M40 gets the same job done (killing a bunch of people like in this episode), yes it has less power and can't get through armour, but you don't even need that much power in the first place.

In GGO I probably still would use the M40 even though stats makes the choice much harder.
Yes the Barret is semi-automatic but the recoil unless it is fixed at its place simply doesn't let you fire consecutive shots with any aim behind them.
On the other hand one of its problems, the heavy weight, doesn't play a huge role when you have a strength stat.

Still that sniper would be overkill Especially if you aim for headshots, as those are almost everytime insta-kills, the power behind the shot is completely unrelated.

EDIT: Failed with my quote

[Znail]

Originally Posted by Esebian

Yes the Barret is semi-automatic but the recoil unless it is fixed at its place simply doesn't let you fire consecutive shots with any aim behind them.

It's not as bad as one would think. It got the muzzle break, recoil dampning and it's large mass. So the actual recoil is on par with a smaller rifle like the M40.

[Esebian]

Originally Posted by Znail

It's not as bad as one would think. It got the muzzle break, recoil dampning and it's large mass. So the actual recoil is on par with a smaller rifle like the M40.

Well but this whole equipment makes the sniper much worse against single "little" targets like humans once you get over 1 km distance.

In GGO because of the aim assistence this doesn't play that much of a role but it still takes quite a long time to aim with the assistence properly for a long distance so the semi-automatic function isn't really that important.

The only reason why somebody would use an anti-materiel rifle in GGO is for 3 things:
1. use the power to shoot through cover
2. use the power for redirecting the movement of your body, e.g. shooting while standing would let you "fly" backwards to dodge shoots
3. use the power for outranging another sniper but that point is incredible hard to achieve as you would need detailed knowledge about the enemies sniper long before you enter his shooting range

Sinon uses her Hecate II most likely for reason 1 and a variance of 3, namely the long distance sniping in general. On the other hand this became her problem this time as she was over 1 km away from her squad so it took her much time to get to them.

[bietchie11]

First, let me clarify this:
when i said "power/damage": i mean Kinetic energy = muzzel velocity(bullet speed) X bullet mass (weight).
If i said M82A1 has more power, i already mean its bullets travel faster.

Now, details about why M40 is more suitable:

Spoiler:

1) Normally, a scouting sniper team will do this:
Crawl=>look=>crawl=>look=>make a call=>crawl=>look=>make a shoot=>crawl and repeat.
Basically, they crawl a lot and shoot very little.
2) The only way for a sniper team to survive is not out-shooting the enemy. There are only 2 guys at best. They need to be not seen. You can’t kill someone, you can’t see.
a. Never shoot more than 3 shot at a same location. Shoot, relocate and shoot.
b. Try to make their profile as low as possible, blend with the surrounding.
3) Accuracy is what values most.
4) Normally, people want to rack up as many kills as possible.

For 1) reason, weight plays big role, really big. The lighter their guns, the bigger their Area of Operation.
For 2) their survivability:
a) M40A1 offers less weight that means you can relocate more quickly => less chance to get spotted, more chance to shoot more in a specific amount of time compared to using M82.
b) M40A1 is smaller, makes less noise, give less muzzle blast. Furthermore, M82 is semi-auto so the cases are auto-ejected and fly at high height to the side of the gun. M40’s bolt action gives you freedom to eject it whenever you like, and NOT let them fly out of the gun. You would appreciate semi-auto rifle of your enemy sniper.
c) It is common knowledge that bolt-action rifles offer superior accuracy over semi-auto rifles.
d) For killing people, one 7,62x51mm NATO can do the job splendidly. 12,7x99mm is just over-kill. 12,7x99mm should weight 4-5 time and 3-4 times bigger 7,62x51mm.
Each .50cal (12,7x99mm) should kills at least 4 people to worth the shot. Or kill a high ranking officer, since one officer worths more than 10 others.
That’s why M82’s operator tends to shoot cars than shoot people. 1 car carries 4-5 people. You disable a car = you disable 4-5 people = worth the shot.
If a M82 sniper kills a person, a M40 sniper need to shoot a person and fire 4 more rounds over that enemy’s dead body to be as wasteful as the M82 guy.

TLDR: Basically, with the same ammunition weight and space, guys with M40 can rack up more kills than with M82.
M82, with all the sacrifice in weight, size, profile, ammunition, it doesn’t give much advantage compared to M40 in term of killing people. They are better off used to shoot car and equipments (like radar).

Trivia:
+) it’s not that M40 can’t get a powerful scope. They are more than capable of equipping a big scope with that long picatinny rail, they just don’t need it. Do you see a sniper scope on sub-machine guns before? Yeah, they never need it.
+) Snipers often wait 1-2 days to take a single perfect shot, enemy hiding behind wall is not exactly their big concern.
+)Oh yeah, people don't automatically lock on each other. Further range means you have more area to scan. Most of the time, it's not really an advantage.


Next question:
Do you know in which case M82 is used? And how it is used? How does it fit its task?

[SPARTAN 119]

Originally Posted by bietchie11

Just let me ask you a question. When you are a sniper that aim to kill people, which gun will you choose.

M82A1 or M40A1?

Definitely M82A1. The weapon has a far longer range, faster rate of fire with its semi-auto action, longer range, and High Explosive Incendiary Armor Piercing ammo capable of knocking out just about anything short of a main battle tank.

I'd even say the Barrett is a cut above Sinon's Hecate because of the aforementioned semi-auto action, as well as the larger ten-round magazine.

[Darsovin]

The original question has a lot of assumptions and it's very difficult to make any blanket recommendation of one rifle versus the other. It's more of what's the best tool for the job and the work environment.

I would primarily carry the M40A1, or even better a semi automatic precision rifle chambered in 7.62 NATO. Easier to carry and allows you to keep up with the group and return consistent, accurate fire. More than adequate at engaging human targets at typical ranges.

The Barrett M82A1 is proven but fills a very specific niche which others have already explained. For me the downsides are too much to make it a primary weapon. And to be honest, the 50 BMG round is way overkill for a soft target. The rifle system is extremely bulky, unwieldly, and heavy! Good for a fixed position but not if you're gonna have to pack it up and hustle. Muzzle blast is HORRIBLE! I challenge anyone to fire more than 2 magazines and claim they're still having fun. I sure wasn't being next to that stupid muzzle brake, but to be fair the blast is worse at the sides. The blast also will kick up any dirt and debris around you giving away your position. But if you want to ensure first hit kill probability it's your best bet.

[M.A.D]

Originally Posted by bietchie11

Next question:
Do you know in which case M82 is used? And how it is used? How does it fit its task?

According Wikipedia, The M82 is good for punching holes through people hiding behind covers, enemy facilities and/or vehicles, thanks to its wide range and high piercing power. Basically, it's more effective against materiels than people

Anyway, are you making this a quiz show?

[.Mero]

M40, Accuracy International L118A1, Cheytac Intervention, Robar 308, Remmington MSR all better for anti personal.

M82 is NOT a anti personal rifle, its primary anti vehicle, so as said, better stick to the 7.62 nato's, even the .338 would be pushing it as anti personal imho

btw i like my bolt action :P

[SPARTAN 119]

Originally Posted by Darsovin

The original question has a lot of assumptions and it's very difficult to make any blanket recommendation of one rifle versus the other. It's more of what's the best tool for the job and the work environment.

I would primarily carry the M40A1, or even better a semi automatic precision rifle chambered in 7.62 NATO. Easier to carry and allows you to keep up with the group and return consistent, accurate fire. More than adequate at engaging human targets at typical ranges.

The Barrett M82A1 is proven but fills a very specific niche which others have already explained. For me the downsides are too much to make it a primary weapon. And to be honest, the 50 BMG round is way overkill for a soft target. The rifle system is extremely bulky, unwieldly, and heavy! Good for a fixed position but not if you're gonna have to pack it up and hustle. Muzzle blast is HORRIBLE! I challenge anyone to fire more than 2 magazines and claim they're still having fun. I sure wasn't being next to that stupid muzzle brake, but to be fair the blast is worse at the sides. The blast also will kick up any dirt and debris around you giving away your position. But if you want to ensure first hit kill probability it's your best bet.

You have a point there, when I answered, I assumed that the OP referring to something similar to the situation Sinon was in- sniping at distances of greater that one kilometer from an elevated position, where a one-shot kill is important.

For ranges of less than 1000 meters, a 7.62mm would be more effective. In the case of choosing the bolt-action M40 over a semi-auto such as the M21, it is again, a situational thing- are you trying to take out a single target, like an officer or a hostile sniper, or are you providing overwatch at a shorter range, say about 500 meters, or acting as unit marksman. For a single target or at longer range, bolt action is usually more accurate, but for multiple, closer targets, a semi-auto, or even a DMR (many of which are essentially assault or battle rifles equipped with high-power scopes and other modifications for long range fire) may be preferable.

[Znail]

Bolt action was mostly an advantage in WW2 era as automatic weapons had some gas leakage and thus a loss of power. For modern weapons so is that advantage basically null and void.

[kyp275]

Originally Posted by Esebian

The barret is the sniper with the most recoil I know of, it is impossible to shoot it standing without breaking both your arms, possibly even killing you.

Nope, the biggest problem with shooting the M82 standing up is the weight distribution of the rifle – most of the weight is out front in the barrel, so unless you’re just a beast, your supporting arm is going to have trouble holding that rifle up. It is doable though, but may lead to funny stances
That said, you’ll certainly not die firing it in standing up, nor break your arms, or shoulder, or wrist, or anything for that matter. Like the other posters said, it really isn’t that bad.

As for the OP’s claims, it really boils down to the mission and scenario, and frankly contains far too many assumptions. Depending on the mission, you may be mounted (no, you really don’t want to patrol Anbar on foot), or you may potentially have to deal with VBIED etc. Without more specifics, a blanket claim saying so and so rifle is better is akin to saying this car is the best at racing, without saying whether it’s road course / drifting / autocross / drag / offroad etc.

[YF19EX]

One of my favorite proofs that a M82/107 is not as bad to the shooter as some people would claim. And of course some madskillz or damn lucky shot.

[l.kostas]

List of the weapons used in the anime. There are pictures of how the weapons are irl:
http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Sword_Art_Online_II

[Znail]

And a contender for this thread shows up, Accuracy International Arctic Warfare Magnum, the one sniper rifle that isn't a .50 that managed to the break dominance of .50 long range kill records. But it's not exactly known for it's silence, even with a silencer. They may have been thinking of the Accuracy International Arctic Warfare Suppressed, wich features a 711 mm (28 in) long suppressor/barrel and fires subsonic ammo very silently.