(L) Arpeggio of Blue Steel (Aoki Hagane no Arpeggio)

[kagato3]

We would also have to take into account that most of the fog tech seems to mess with space (Klein feilds, SGC, mirror ring, likely corrosive torpedoes) so it Is possible that some of the damage they cause is not by force but are shunting mater into other time-space axises and not vaporizing them this may require less energy but since the physics required for that isn't real I can't say.

[DLRevan]

Originally Posted by synx

The corrosion radius seems a little... high. Given that we see Nagara 3 pages later and it is clearly not bisected like that the radius of the corrosive torpedo would seem to imply.

A much better event to calc would be 401 firing corrosive torpedoes at Haruna and Kirishima, since the radius of those is mostly in the water, and we get a nice view of exactly how much water they displaced. Water is also nearly constant in density at 1 kg/m^3.

From there we have to decide on exactly what mechanism is used to dissolve the material. He seems to be using the assumption that the individual nucleii of the atoms are torn apart, which given the lack of an expanding shock wave does not appear to be the case.

From the description of corrosive torpedoes "freezing" light in their volume of effect, we can reason that the most accurate description involves some form of M->E conversion. M->E conversion at low T and low v follow the formula E=Mc^2. This gets you a sillier number than what he got. He has 18TT. Using my assumptions this results in 839 tons of water being converted to energy, which would correspond to 839 m^3. 839 m^3 seems big until... you realize its a cube 9.43 meters across.

1 kg mass ~22MT from E=Mc^2

I'm lazy to calc it right now, but it should come out to somewhere in the petatons if you use my assumptions.

This has some staggering implications about how much energy a Klein field is able to absorb, since we don't see any petaton-level effects from the detonation of corrosive torpedoes, which apparently use a Klein field to contain the effects within the radius.

Of course we can always get some shenanigans about the matter being shifted into another dimension, in which case it's just uncalcable.

Due to the delayed effect of the the corrosive warheads, I think what we see when a torpedo strikes is not the gravitic effect itself, but some kind of triggering reaction. In which case the energy that is being absorbed by the Klein field comes from that reaction and the field neutralizes the warhead by dampening the reaction. Since the process is fictional, that reaction could be using any energy level the authors want. That would also explain why the mental models always seem to say something like "won't make it in time" and when they do, their hulls are mostly undamaged, implying that the actual damaging reaction hasn't occurred yet.

As adamant I am about Fog armor and Klein field potential with regards to nukes, I think storing and dissipating a petaton yield is just ridiculous even for a fictitious technology, neither does it correlate with the saturation levels Haruna and Kirishima reached from getting struck by normal munitions.

Originally Posted by synx

Okay so I found the equations. This is for skin friction drag

(snip)

Okay this is just full wtf. It's very clear that the authors didn't crunch the numbers.

Assuming that the only limiting variable is drag, and not output of the actual graviton engines, or other things. Either her reactors have a vastly higher output than her actual engines, or she has a dedicated capacitor that comes with the SGC. There are other plausible explanations.

650MW looks like about the right numbers though, for a ship travelling at over 100knots, taking into account the exponential increase in power required to combat drag. Typical nuclear subs have reactor outputs around 30-40 MW, if i'm not mistaken, with flank speeds of 30+ knots submerged.

[Tim yy]

I thought Iona's max speed was 80 nots when submerged, and Hakugei managed to reach 110 nots with its rocket engines and supercultivation technology.

That bring us to Zuikaku....with large enough engine output to levitate. ok, i'm lost where i'm heading with this...

[synx]

Originally Posted by Tim yy

I thought Iona's max speed was 80 nots when submerged, and Hakugei managed to reach 110 nots with its rocket engines and supercultivation technology.

That bring us to Zuikaku....with large enough engine output to levitate. ok, i'm lost where i'm heading with this...

I believe what you're trying to say is "Rule of Cool".

When 401 was fleeing from U-2501, Iori mentions she can't exceed 110 knots even if they were willing to damage the engines.

[kagato3]

You also run into a lot more problems the faster you go like the whole pressure wave in front of you the thing that can destroy planes if they aren't designed for supersonic flight.

[synx]

Originally Posted by kagato3

You also run into a lot more problems the faster you go like the whole pressure wave in front of you the thing that can destroy planes if they aren't designed for supersonic flight.

That is not a problem underwater. Speed of sound underwater is ~1500 m/s

[kagato3]

Its still there and in some ways worse as water isn't compressible like air is. As well as hull friction and stability issues.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by DLRevan

This is really being overrated. Even if you required one 50 megaton bomb to each Fog capital ship, the nuclear material being used is insignificant in terms of range of area pollution.

We are not talking about or two but several per ship.
If by capital ship you are referring to ships in the size of Yamato 1 definitely wouldn't cut it. Especially considering that you need to get through the Kleinfield first.
Lets also not forget that the ones making the nuclear calls are usually not the guys in the uniform but the ones in the suits who are usually smarter than irradiating the entire world.

Originally Posted by Tim yy

So..if a heavy cruiser such as Maya is capable of producing 3 of these attacks simultaneously. You still think conventional Nukes will be a viable option against Fog ships with this type of technology?

Come on, nukes were already a century old technology in the Arpeggio world, probably was obsolete even before the conflict with Fog started.
As such creative bunch as us, I wonder why we aren't really moving away from it?

Her Klein Field is still an energy shield, which triggers the rule that you basically need to bombard it with energy yourself until it breaks down.
Lets also not forget that Maya would have caused it with all her weapon systems and not just 1 torpedo per Target.

And didn't someone say an apreggio character spoke about nuking one of them in a theoretical manner? I think thats how we got back to the topic...

[Tim yy]

I'll upload some more resources, I'm sure there are ppl here who can read Japanese and do a translation. Most of these have already been translated into Chinese. Can someone confirm if these are in the English manga chapters as well?

Spoiler for page 1:

Spoiler for page 2:

Spoiler for page 3:

Spoiler for page 4:

[synx]

Which volume are these from? I'm guessing it's 8?

[00Zy99]

I'm pretty **** sure that nothing with an image of Zuikaku was ever translated into English.

[DLRevan]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

We are not talking about or two but several per ship.
If by capital ship you are referring to ships in the size of Yamato 1 definitely wouldn't cut it. Especially considering that you need to get through the Kleinfield first.
Lets also not forget that the ones making the nuclear calls are usually not the guys in the uniform but the ones in the suits who are usually smarter than irradiating the entire world.

Those 'smarter' people you're talking about will be even more willing to use those nukes. I assume you're talking about world leaders....politicians. Whom rightly have the duty to consider all aspects of well-being for their country, including economic, military and even prestige. It is only logical to use a couple hundred nuclear weapons (two-stage ones at least) and risk contamination (the amount of which you still overrate) as opposed to the current situation of humanity at the moment, as I've already said.


@Tim yy: You've seen the chinese versions then? It looks more like a glossary with short descriptions than the information blurbs we had before.

[synx]

Originally Posted by DLRevan

Those 'smarter' people you're talking about will be even more willing to use those nukes. I assume you're talking about world leaders....politicians. Whom rightly have the duty to consider all aspects of well-being for their country, including economic, military and even prestige. It is only logical to use a couple hundred nuclear weapons (two-stage ones at least) and risk contamination (the amount of which you still overrate) as opposed to the current situation of humanity at the moment, as I've already said.


@Tim yy: You've seen the chinese versions then? It looks more like a glossary with short descriptions than the information blurbs we had before.

These are also the same guys whose solution to incoming nukes was to shoot them down with bigger nukes.

[vincent_marata07]

Just blast the nuclear bomb outside the earth's atmosphere to create an EMP just to cripple them!

[Xero8420]

Alright, geniuses. What's with the nuclear weapons talk? I don't remember anyone of them using them against each other. They maybe smart enough not to use them as they concern of the long-term effect of the environment after using them. Remember, this story starts with the aftermath of global warming. And humanity will not risk to jeopardize the global environment again. It's like make or break decisions on their fate rather than as tactical/strategic decision to win a war, but at what cost? (which would result to a worse outcome)

[synx]

Originally Posted by Xero8420

Alright, geniuses. What's with the nuclear weapons talk? I don't remember anyone of them using them against each other. They maybe smart enough not to use them as they concern of the long-term effect of the environment after using them. Remember, this story starts with the aftermath of global warming. And humanity will not risk to jeopardize the global environment again. It's like make or break decisions on their fate rather than as tactical/strategic decision to win a war, but at what cost? (which would result to a worse outcome)

The environment is already wrecked due to you know, all the nuclear subs that just sunk.

[DLRevan]

Originally Posted by synx

The environment is already wrecked due to you know, all the nuclear subs that just sunk.

Well over a hundred of those.

Not to mention around a dozen american supercarriers, plus the Charles de Gaulle.

[AC-Phoenix]

^
We don't know which ships exactly sank and which where kept similar to the way the Japanese Marine keeps their ships save.

Originally Posted by Xero8420

Alright, geniuses. What's with the nuclear weapons talk? I don't remember anyone of them using them against each other. They maybe smart enough not to use them as they concern of the long-term effect of the environment after using them. Remember, this story starts with the aftermath of global warming. And humanity will not risk to jeopardize the global environment again. It's like make or break decisions on their fate rather than as tactical/strategic decision to win a war, but at what cost? (which would result to a worse outcome)

which is exactly the discussion in a nutshell.

[Tim yy]

@Tim yy: You've seen the chinese versions then? It looks more like a glossary with short descriptions than the information blurbs we had before.

It's not in the any of the scanlations in Chinese neither. Some fans like us did a side thread and posted translations in his own words, they were very lose and I didn't like them very much.

These seemed to be from a "special booklet" notice they are pages 27-30 of that booklet. I can't get to the bottom of this now.

[Xero8420]

Originally Posted by DLRevan

Well over a hundred of those.

Not to mention around a dozen american supercarriers, plus the Charles de Gaulle.

And some Russian subs too.