(L) Tamako Market

[zeniselv]

i migth give this a try because kokoro connect washed the bad taste i had with these designs, also past kyoani productions were midly amusing and pretty good repectively. I just find dull the lack of variety in character designs, the protagonist, the glassed girl, and the loli look very similar, and the male leads of this and past two kyoani productions have the same hair, and they werent the only ones within those animes, but im aware this is probably to ease it a little for the animators.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Midonin

Ah, sounds like romance will be secondary to more K-ON! esque themes. I can work with this much more.

Originally Posted by Kanon

It sounds like it will not be a romance, after all. The slice of life/iyashikei aspect of the series takes precedence. I'm totally okay with that

What's wrong with romance?

Honestly, anime lately needs more good romances more than it needs more good slice of life shows (going by more liberal definitions of "slice of life" anyway).


To be fair, I fully expected this show to be very K-On-esque, and I was/am Ok with that. Nonetheless, it's very disappointing to know what it transitioned from.

It went from a romance in a Rome-like place with lots of fantasy elements to a slice of life show in Japan with one fantasy element. In other words, it went from "different" to "conventional". Pretty disheartening, especially since this is an anime original, where anime going a bit outside of its comfort zones is often key to it becoming great.

[DragoonKain3]

Originally Posted by ultimatemegax

Mochikura Ooji (voiced by Atsushi Tamaru)
Tamako's classmate and childhood friend.

Well, I'm in.

Now I'm just wondering if Ooji is the Prince 'remade' as the childhood friend (you know, having the name Ooji and all) or if they are different people.

[Midonin]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

What's wrong with romance?

For me, it mostly has to do with the fandom getting so fixated on shipping that it often ends up ignoring other things like atmosphere or theme. I don't mind there being some of it, but when it becomes the primary focus, I just tune right out. That's the primary reason why I watch romantic comedies for the comedy.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

It went from a romance in a Rome-like place with lots of fantasy elements to a slice of life show in Japan with one fantasy element. In other words, it went from "different" to "conventional".

There are more things that can mark a series as being "different" than its premise. Again, atmosphere, theme, direction, writing - a unique identity can come from any one factor, and it doesn't necessarily need to be premise.

Not to mention all stories go through several revisions. Sometimes ideas sound good on paper, but pulling them off in a way that's entertaining for people to read becomes a challenge. That's just part of what goes into creating art.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Midonin

For me, it mostly has to do with the fandom getting so fixated on shipping that it often ends up ignoring other things like atmosphere or theme. I don't mind there being some of it, but when it becomes the primary focus, I just tune right out.

Just out of curiosity, then, do you have any favorite anime romances?

Personally, I like watching a good romance at least once in a while.

There are more things that can mark a series as being "different" than its premise. Again, atmosphere, theme, direction, writing - a unique identity can come from any one factor, and it doesn't necessarily need to be premise.

It's possible, yes, but it's less likely now with the premise going from "different" to "conventional".

Not to mention all stories go through several revisions. Sometimes ideas sound good on paper, but pulling them off in a way that's entertaining for people to read becomes a challenge. That's just part of what goes into creating art.

Exactly. And KyoAni took the less challenging route. In other words, the less ambitious route.

I still think this will be a good show, but it's disappointing to see that KyoAni had a real chance to go a bit outside of its comfort zone, but whiffed on it.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Midonin

Sometimes ideas sound good on paper, but pulling them off in a way that's entertaining for people to read becomes a challenge. That's just part of what goes into creating art.

It just sounds like instead of challenging themselves the staff decided to keep things simple.

Of course you're right in that atmosphere, theme, direction, writing are quite important (in fact I tend to value them much more than premise)

It's just that since this is the k-on staff and k-on really never did anything for me the one thing that would have intrigued me was the different premise,now that it's gone I can only hope to be pleasantly surprised.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

What's wrong with romance?

Honestly, anime lately needs more good romances more than it needs more good slice of life shows (going by more liberal definitions of "slice of life" anyway).

You misunderstood my post. I never said there was anything wrong with romance. I would have been okay with that too, even more so since the synopsis made it sound like it would be unconventional.

I disagree with your statement though. Good romances are more easy to come across than good slice of life shows especially in the iyashikei subgenre. I consider myself lucky when I can find one of them in a season (this season, it's Hidamari).

[Midonin]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Just out of curiosity, then, do you have any favorite anime romances?

Hidamari Sketch's Sae/Hiro/Natsume love triangle. It's developed really gradually, but at this point, the bond between Sae and Hiro is so strong that the characters don't even need to comment on it to know it's there. (Natsume is still left out in the cold. Such is her lot in life.)

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Exactly. And KyoAni took the less challenging route. In other words, the less ambitious route.

But that's the thing with challenges - they're also less likely to be polished. I really hate to pull out quotes, instead preferring to speak in my own words, but there's something to be said on this.

"Your manuscript is both good and original, but the part that is good is not original and the part that is original is not good."

Something conventional can be more efficient, and, once it doesn't have to polish its premise, can focus on other things. A lot of my favorite works are based entirely on this notion.

[Reckoner]

This is so disappointing.

RRR is right here, irrespective of how you feel about what kind of show it has become, there is the fact that they seemingly decided to go from something more unconventional to conventional. I been waiting for this studio to go and do something really different lately, but it seems we been robbed of that opportunity once more.

Unfortunately this makes it all the more souring because the new details coming out sound like something that might be practically unwatchable for my tastes. But I guess time will tell. This doesn't seem to have much potential in any case.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kanon

You misunderstood my post. I never said there was anything wrong with romance. I would have been okay with that too, even more so since the synopsis made it sound like it would be unconventional.

Right. We both liked the possible yuri here. That's why I was surprised by you being cool with less romance.

Anyway, thanks for the clarification.

I disagree with your statement though. Good romances are more easy to come across than good slice of life shows especially in the iyashikei subgenre. I consider myself lucky when I can find one of them in a season (this season, it's Hidamari).

Well, to be fair, I'm speaking as someone with pretty high standards for good romances. Also, I'm thinking "Romance as the primary genre".

Originally Posted by Midonin

Hidamari Sketch's Sae/Hiro/Natsume love triangle. It's developed really gradually, but at this point, the bond between Sae and Hiro is so strong that the characters don't even need to comment on it to know it's there. (Natsume is still left out in the cold. Such is her lot in life.)


But that's the thing with challenges - they're also less likely to be polished. I really hate to pull out quotes, instead preferring to speak in my own words, but there's something to be said on this.

"Your manuscript is both good and original, but the part that is good is not original and the part that is original is not good."

Something conventional can be more efficient, and, once it doesn't have to polish its premise, can focus on other things. A lot of my favorite works are based entirely on this notion.

I get your point, but my view is that KyoAni has "been there, done that" almost a dozen times over already.

For a company as successful as them, it would be nice to see them take a real artistic challenge every now and then. Yes, a risk can blow up in your face, Guilty Crown-style (still, that was nonetheless commercially successful). But it's also where you're most likely to find your Madoka Magicas.

[Midonin]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I get your point, but my view is that KyoAni has "been there, done that" almost a dozen times over already.

But they have enough talent and support from the people that know them that, as long as they feel comfortable with what they're doing, who are we to ask them to come back to England? They don't "owe" it to anybody to be artistic - in fact, they may even be artistic already and people are overlooking the "low" nature of their medium in the Western world that the real technical qualities that make something a work of art - and that's how most works of art come about, by accident. This time, I'm going to quote a friend of mine.

"Art is not produced by highfalutin dudes in puffy shirts studying and analyzing what worked and then replicating it. Art is produced by the populist mass media by complete accident. Only time and distance separate Falstaff from Fonzie or Optimus Prime."

I think I've wrung out this analogy enough.

[desrtsku]

She has a little sister ... She has a little sister ... She has a little sister ... and she's a cute loli ...
Dammit, I'm so weak!

[Tyabann]

Personally, I wouldn't hate "high school in modern Japan" as a setting quite so much if it weren't the 'default' option nowadays, and if it weren't for shows like this, that could have been far more interesting, being turned into that for whatever reason.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Midonin

But they have enough talent and support from the people that know them that, as long as they feel comfortable with what they're doing, who are we to ask them to come back to England? They don't "owe" it to anybody to be artistic - in fact, they may even be artistic already

Oh,I see what you did there

But I doubt Triple_R is about to go try and kidnap kyani staff members until they give him Harushi S3

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by totoum

Oh,I see what you did there

But I doubt Triple_R is about to go try and kidnap kyani staff members until they give him Harushi S3

lol! Good one.

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Personally, I wouldn't hate "high school in modern Japan" as a setting quite so much if it weren't the 'default' option nowadays, and if it weren't for shows like this, that could have been far more interesting, being turned into that for whatever reason.

Agreed. Romance to slice of life, many fantasy elements to one fantasy elements... Those changes, while probably not ones I'd make, aren't ones that I think are all that big of a deal.

But the setting change really is disappointing. And to be fair, this isn't just a knock on KyoAni, but on anime as a whole. I like many anime shows with a Japanese high school setting, but that setting is becoming a bit of a creative crutch now.

But that's probably my last word on that.


I still think this will be a good show because KyoAni simply does not do shoddy work. As long as the writing quality is at least competent, this should be a good show.

[Violet Rabbit]

...

I just became more interested after seeing the other characters.

[ultimatemegax]

Additional information from the Newtype feature with just Yamada.

-Don't you want to try a new project? That's how I received this story two years ago. The show is set in the shopping district because I wanted to try and express "the concept of kindness." It focuses on a mochi shop since it's a fundamental part of Japanese culture or perhaps it's because it gives off a joyful feeling.

-I think people's faces express happiness whenever they say "mochi." That's why you should say it that way instead of "mochi."

-I think this work will turn out well if we're able to provide the viewers with a sense of happiness from Tamako's smiling face. It's that way from being raised amongst many warm people.

[Hiroi Sekai]

Originally Posted by ultimatemegax

-I think people's faces express happiness whenever they say "mochi." That's why you should say it that way instead of "mochi."

That's why we named our last puppy "Mochi". That could be the reason the tagline "Rice cakes, freshly pounded" sounded dangerous to me.

[Pocari_Sweat]

Spoiler for Somewhat off-topic rant about anime romances:

Midonin does have a point here regarding romance being detrimental. Let's face it, when romance is a major element, a significant number of anime fans are so shipping focused that they ignore everything else or if it involves some kind of love triangle/pentagon etc. go up in arms and dismiss a show if their favorite pairing doesn't win (e.g. *cough* True Tears *cough*). Not to mention anime romances tend to be pretty banal most of the time in they are nearly all about the formation and not about what happens AFTER a relationship is formed. Main reason why I'm liking Sukitte Ii na Ya a lot this season. Although it's not the standard of Kare Kano or Bokura ga Ita, but it's relatively close in that department. Frankly, I've been turned off anime romances for a while now in that I'm kind of sick of romance series, particularly one with Yuki Kaiji like beta males wishwashing for 12 episodes or heaven forbid 2 whole cours before the relationship is actually formed.. then the series just ends! Sorry, I rather have pure SoL and little or no romance if that's the case.

In regards to "slice of life" and "high school settings" in general, yeh it's definitely overused. As a subgenre recently, there's been a lot of "friendship" based anime too which I don't know when it exactly started but I do know it started to skyrocket in number since Anohana's massive success. I'm not exactly sick of it yet since a significant number of shows I liked this year came from this theme (Natsuiro Kiseki, Tsruitama and Tari Tari being examples) but there is indeed a "higher threshold" it needs to obtain on the execution side for it to be great. Tari Tari achieved that execution scale with flying colors so it passed, but something like Natusiro Kiseki probably not. The currently airing Chuunibyou does not either for me.

Tamako Market will then now need to somehow be extraordinary in its execution to stand out from the pack. If it's anything like the faffing about and "huur duuur laugh at semi-mentally disabled girls doing cute things" K-on was, then no it will personally not work on me and I'll dismiss it straight away. If it's something like Tari Tari or Hyouka which somehow made really generic premises into something truly great then I'm all for it. Execution is key here.

[Midonin]

I think we agree on the thesis statement, but the reasoning we'd use for why we agree with that statement comes from totally different angles - basically, everything after the second sentence isn't necessarily what I was implying or agree with. As for the rest... I consider K-ON! to be the series that probably had the most impact on me of any anime in the past few years, so I stand by why I'd be glad if this series is closer to it in style.