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View Poll Results: Your favorite character tied with discussion | |||
Tohsaka Rin | 104 | 24.41% | |
Matou Sakura | 20 | 4.69% | |
Emiya Shirou | 18 | 4.23% | |
Ilyasviel "Ilya" von Einzbern | 37 | 8.69% | |
Saber | 153 | 35.92% | |
Rider | 23 | 5.40% | |
Lancer | 4 | 0.94% | |
Archer | 53 | 12.44% | |
Caster | 11 | 2.58% | |
Berserker | 3 | 0.70% | |
Voters: 426. You may not vote on this poll |
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2010-07-19, 22:30 | Link #341 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 39
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No, that just makes her a very good magus. Rin or Sakura could control him just as well.
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2010-07-20, 01:39 | Link #342 |
Onii-chan~
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To control a Beserker is one thing, to control them completely while they are insane is another. Take Kariya for instance, a poor magus, on scale with... hmmm, lets say Sakura (who wasn't a skilled magus in comparison to all the others who fought; Shiro would compare with Uuryu), and he couldn't control Beserker at all when he was insane. Heracles had a higher level of Mad Enhancement, making him even more difficult to control as a Beserker; Sakura would've faulted instantly, and I doubt anyone BUT an Einsbern could've controlled such a Beserker whilst insane.
Additionally, I would've preferred the Ilya path Oh look, Saber, Rin, and Sakura are all dead... time for Shiro to mentally break down.
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2010-07-20, 03:47 | Link #343 | ||
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Every single time she controlled berserker? Seeing that tiny loli with that huge monster behind her calmly going 'kill them all.' oh yes, that was badass.
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With Sakura this is exactly what happened. They tried too hard. I'm not a stone-hearted person, in fact it's quite easy to get me feel for characters and to have me cry for them. I cried at the end of Utawarerumono, I cried several times during Clannad, I cried during One Piece (over a friggin ship no less) but there comes a point where you can simply be trying too hard to get me to pity a character. Sakura was one of these. "Here's a poor girl, she's being mistreated by her brother. Sad, huh? But that's not all! She's also being controlled by a worm implanted by her grandfather! Oh, and that worm makes her a crazed sex-slave too! What, still not enough? Okay then, she was raped for most of her life! By worms! Oh, and she's Rin's sister, taken away from her when she was very young, are you having pity for her yet? Oh, and that brother we mentioned? He rapes her too! Are you pitying her yet? Well here's some more! All she really wants is to be loved by the guy she admired when she was young! And she can't! And now the one she loves is trying to save her, while she doesn't want him to risk his life! No pity yet? In that case, she was also manipulated by Zouken to unconsciously kill people! And she feels really, really bad about it! Are you pitying her her yet? Are you? Do I have to spell it out for you? SAD CHARACTER! THIS IS A SAD CHARACTER! PITY HER!" And that's all I can remember. I'm sure I even missed a few things I've forgotten since. This is what we'd call 'forced drama.' Yeah, Sakura has lead the most sucky life out of the entire cast, so statistically speaking we should feel sorry for her. But you know what? They tried too hard. Beating me to death with reasons to pity someone works counterproductive for me. For me, if you make your drama more subtle, I find it coming across much stronger. That's why I don't like Sakura that much. Her entire route was tossing more and more 'pity poor Sakura' cards on the pile. Sakura was a character created purely to feel sorry for, and like most characters of her kind, she missed the point by trying too hard. Last edited by Keroko; 2010-07-20 at 06:08. |
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2010-07-20, 11:48 | Link #345 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 39
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But this whole attitude still astounds me. That you can not like a character because her life sucked too much, even though that's not her fault. You've certainly not made me any fonder of Ilya, in any case. Just because her suffering isn't outlined explicitly on screen, that doesn't make her a 'better' or 'more rounded' character. Quote:
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2010-07-20, 12:28 | Link #346 |
Onii-chan~
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Ilya loved Berserker because for the past few months, he was always there for her and would do anything to protect her. Even without his sanity, the one thing he wanted to do was protect her, because she reminded him of his first family. They became dependent on each other, and the bigger person gets killed. Now how do you act? Everything you've wanted for the past ten years was within your grasp, and you lost it, you lost someone who would always protect you, and now, your life is in the hands of the person you hate more than anyone. How could an 18 year old girl NOT break down.
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2010-07-20, 13:48 | Link #348 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 38
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2010-07-20, 16:29 | Link #349 | ||||
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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I don't dislike Sakura because 'her life sucked too much' I don't like Sakura because the game keeps beating me on the head with the 'bag-o-suffering' every other paragraph. Like I said, it's a case of trying too hard. Bad writing. Yeah, sure, from an outside perspective if you compared Sakura's life to Ilya's and asked someone who they pitied the most, they'd say Sakura, no doubt. But then when you play the game you get those reasons stuffed down your throat again and again and again to the point where you're going "Allright! I get it! I have to pity this girl! Can we please get on with the story now?" Quote:
Last edited by Keroko; 2010-07-20 at 17:03. |
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2010-07-20, 17:22 | Link #351 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 39
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2010-07-20, 17:45 | Link #352 | |||||
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Which, you know, is an opinion. Hence why you saw it differently: because you have a different opinion. Quote:
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And Sakura isn't the final boss, Angra Manyu manipulating her is. After all, as you have so fervently been pointing out so far, Sakura never did anything bad, she was always being manipulated. What was the final battle is the regular 'damsel in distress needs to be saved from the claws of evil (Angra Manyu) by the hero.' Last edited by Keroko; 2010-07-21 at 03:58. |
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2010-07-20, 18:14 | Link #354 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 39
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No, but having big boobs or being sympathetic also doesn't make you a poorly-written character, or one lacking in a personality....
Anyway, we're clearly not going to agree here, because your opinion of Sakura is totally different from mine, so let's just drop it, shall we...? |
2010-07-21, 03:57 | Link #355 |
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Huh.. how did that happen? Guess something went wrong with that last edit. Ah well, that's why we have delete buttons.
Anyway, I'm quite ready to agree to disagree, that's why I constantly keep saying that all of this was my opinion and that the points I raised were just my reasons for not liking Sakura. Last edited by Keroko; 2010-07-21 at 05:33. |
2010-07-28, 02:35 | Link #356 | |
Casting a spell on you...
Graphic Designer
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Now Keroko, I think you might be mistaken about Nasu putting it on too thick with Sakura's backstory, you've already said that you dislike Sakura (and before you say anything about that, I'll say it verrrry slowly, you don't hate Sakura, but you don't like her either.), and through that you are unable to empathize(something different than sympathy or pity) with her. Her story is more than just a story of pity, she endured, and endured without hating the world or hating her abuser. That's real strength to me. In this story we have her facing many different things at once that is: 1.) The state of her body 2.) Being possessed by Angra Mainyu 3.) Having her personality altered and twisted as a lesser Grail 4.) Her past, and trying to pick up a bit of what she lost so long ago. 5.) A love she had almost given hope on And all within the span of less than two weeks.Sure it was a lot to swallow, but this was her story. Saber and Rin both had an allegiance to duty and honor, Ilya had her lonliness and regret. Shirou had his heroism. These themes were all over the VN, and Nasu pointed them out over and over. But I hear too often that people felt like Sakura's story made them pity her. Like it was a chore. But really you can't make someone do anything, they either like the character or they don't, they can either feel for them or they cannot. You see a starving kitten mewing for food, and let's say you feed it. It was you who decided to feed it, it was you who thought about its well being. Its fine if one doesn't like a character, but it doesn't mean that the character did something wrong, you just merely didn't resonate with it. People like Kotomine, however reprehensible he may be, because they found something sympathetic and decided, "hey this guy ain't so bad." Hell, the same is said for Gil and Shinji, even Zouken. Rather paradoxical isn't it? So I wanted to go over a few things I think about her and comb through the route with a bit of analysis, maybe we all might learn something. I think that saying Dark Sakura could ever been seen as just strong is wrong. There is no strength there. There is none of the quiet strength that endured there. Sure you can like her for being powerful, but that 'strength' she had was empty. That power perverted who she was, and almost cost her a great deal. It wasn't worth it. But we can be thankful for the regeneration that took care of the mother worm, that was pretty much the only good thing about it. What quite a good of people fail utterly to realize was that Sakura is in no way a yandere. Nasu very blatantly would show her 'yandere side' and right after that you would see the tell tale signs of shame, regret and frustration at a self emerging that she was disgusted with. She had no information with which to combat it and since AM was eating away at her sanity, along with every Servant absorbed, the human being known as "Sakura" was eroded down. This was akin to the way Shirou was breaking down with Archer's arm, where she lost memories, and had trouble figuring out where she was, who people were,and what day it was, and it got worse and worse as the route went on. Hell, after that gold bastard skewered her, she had to hold together herself with magical energy to even move, Rin even said that surviving such an ordeal would cause her to go insane. But even as her mind was breaking apart, and she went through unimaginable pain, she would show Shirou a smile. When he tried to kill her the second time, I doubt anyone can fathom what she was thinking that night, under those covers. But what we saw was that, no matter how guiltless she was of the situation, the only thing on her mind was, "Someone like me broke the pure boy that ran under the setting sun and fought for a dream." That isn't a selfish person. The selfish people would be the ones who orchestrated this war, the selfish people are the ones who experiment on children and hurt innocents in the name of power and ambition, the selfish people would be the magi who know that there are people who are willing to use that great power for a disastrous end and yet allow such a ritual to continue. Now as to her real strengths, look at the scene "Distant Twilight" where you could see that Sakura may not have liked the way she was raised, but she didn't complain about it. She told Shirou the nature of the magics that were engraved upon her, but she never asked for pity. As she spoke, he noticed that Sakura had the same level of level-headedness and sharpness of mind that Rin had, just she wasn't as blunt. It was amusing how she teased him but gave him tips at the same time. Doesn't this sound like someone to you? Shirou was telling us of her strength all along, and it is a strength that goes unseen in the limelight of tsundere magic slingers and blonde swordswomen, and that was the strength of her heart. In summation, when you think of Sakura and her story, I'd say, look between the lines and see that she was a worthwhile and strong person, in her own way. I may like Sakura the most, but I won't say anything in detriment to Saber and Rin, because I found things to like about them too. Look beyond pity, and try to understand, even a little of what Nasu was trying to say about her in this story. It wasn't about pity. It is yet another tale of the cruelty and callousness of magi and their road to ambition. Oh and here are a few fanfiction I wish to endorse for just this topic: http://nrvnqsr.proboards.com/index.c...ay&thread=5842 http://nrvnqsr.proboards.com/index.c...ay&thread=5856 http://nrvnqsr.proboards.com/index.c...ay&thread=6043 Ironically enough, this was written by a forum member who openly admitted to disliking Sakura. |
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