The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - Episode 23 Discussion / Poll [2009 added ep. 13]

[Sackett]

Originally Posted by Akka

I fail to see where Kyon has been overboard. A punch is quite tame compared to bullying and abusing people like Haruhi has done.

Wouldn't Hit A Girl is still very strongly felt by many of us guys.

[Heatth]

Originally Posted by Akka

I fail to see where Kyon has been overboard. A punch is quite tame compared to bullying and abusing people like Haruhi has done.

Some people don't believe violence solve anything. Also, Kyon is strong enough to be able to stop Haruhi from hiting Mikuru without having to punching her. Actually, this scne kinda prooves that only his intentions of stop her would be more then enough. Punching her would just make things worse, not better.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Heatth

But she did thought about Yuki's feelings in the end of this episode. She did allow Yuki goes to the computer club just after Yuki say she wants to. Quite better then smashing people head without thinking what the feel...

(I knew I would have to explain this episode...)

It's not that you need to explain it, Heatth. It's that you're making too much of it. Letting Yuki go to the Computer Club from time-to-time is just common decency; it's nothing to write home about. It certainly doesn't make up for Haruhi's mistreatment of the Computer Club during that episode.

Overall, Haruhi is villainous in Day of Sagittarius. It's not a good example of Haruhi becoming a better person. It really isn't.

Even before this episode started making me reconsider Haruhi's character, I viewed Day of Sagittarius as Haruhi near/at her worst.

It's where I got the idea of using Haruhi as a villain in my

Falcon Punch vs. Mikuru Beam, and...

Mobile Suit Melancholy: Operation Lolicon

YouTube series.

Also, the only villainous thing she did that episode was the kick. The humiliation of the computer club was their faut, not her (and they did cheat). They were right by wanting a ravange, but they really shouldn't need to cheat to won against some amateours(they did create the game, come on)

Heatth, I have to disagree. Haruhi shows no remorse whatsoever over stealing (in effect) their top of the line computer... which is exactly why Day of Sagittarius happened. She continues to delight in inflicting misery on the Computer Club, even after what she's already done to them. That's villainous, in my opinion.

[Akka]

Originally Posted by Heatth

Some people don't believe violence solve anything. Also, Kyon is strong enough to be able to stop Haruhi from hiting Mikuru without having to punching her. Actually, this scne kinda prooves that only his intentions of stop her would be more then enough. Punching her would just make things worse, not better.

It shows that he have been much too timid in the past, and should have opposed and yelled at Haruhi sooner and more effectively. But it doesn't mean that Haruhi hasn't earned by far the punch she was about to get.

[Heatth]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

It's not that you need to explain it, Heatth. It's that you're making too much of it. Letting Yuki go to the Computer Club from time-to-time is just common decency; it's nothing to write home about. It certainly doesn't make up for Haruhi's mistreatment of the Computer Club during that episode.

Overall, Haruhi is villainous in Day of Sagittarius. It's not a good example of Haruhi becoming a better person. It really isn't.

Even before this episode started making me reconsider Haruhi's character, I viewed Day of Sagittarius as Haruhi near/at her worst.

I strongly disagre of you here. How Haruhi is villainous on that episode? She did a kick and that is it(bad, sure, not not that bad, specially considering how violence is generally downplayed in anime). The rest of the episode was her being a large ham and playing with friends. She really did nothing really bad to the Computer Club. Even making then part of her brigade is nothing as she never make then do anything for he after that.

Allowing Yuki help the CC when she feel like it is really just common decency. Something Haruhi kinda lack before this episode(before Live A Live, actually). I neve say she becomes a good person just after Sighs, but starts to go on this way.

PP:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Heatth, I have to disagree. Haruhi shows no remorse whatsoever over stealing (in effect) their top of the line computer... which is exactly why Day of Sagittarius happened. She continues to delight in inflicting misery on the Computer Club, even after what she's already done to them. That's villainous, in my opinion.

Oh, this. Sure, but is about something that happened moths before. As I said, the CC was right about wanting revange, but they act pretty bad too. What I said is ther humillation on that episode was their fault. You said she was vilainious because she humiliated then, but they humiliate thenselfs. What they should have done is just pick their PC back (or talking to some autority). Their efeat and the lost of the laptops in Day of Sagitarius was their fault, they even agreed with that.

Originally Posted by Akka

It shows that he have been much too timid in the past, and should have opposed and yelled at Haruhi sooner and more effectively. But it doesn't mean that Haruhi hasn't earned by far the punch she was about to get.

Sorry, didn't understand(really). What I said is just grabing her wist would be way better for her (and for the world) then punching her.

[Triple_R]

Heatth - If you want examples of Haruhi being good, the best example is her trip to the island villa, imo.

There, she...

1) Shows sincere and frequent thanks to Koizumi's "relatives" for hosting her and her Brigade.

2) Shows sincere concern for Kyon after his body breaks her fall. In the anime, this includes her flashing perhaps her sweetest smile ever towards him.

3) Is genuinely helping everyone have a good, playful time.

4) Is actually quite troubled and upset over a man seemingly being killed. She's actually showing some modicum of concern for a stranger.


Also, I don't recall her doing anything jerkish in that two-parter. That was Haruhi at her best, imo.

[GMT]

This week on Sighs IV The Day Kyon Learned About his Hypertension

- Nagato practices for World's Strongest Woman Contest!
- Taniguchi catches amoebic dysentery!
- Old-Timey Floating Hat Left Behind Cartoon Gag!
- JELLO-WRESTLING!
- Haruhi considers her future career directing porn!
- Kyon gets angrier, and ANGRIER! Kyon's got a plan . . . by God, if it weren't for stupid goddamned Itsuki, I'd knock that psychopath INTO NEXT FUC . . . ahem . . . sorry.
- Koizumi practices for his future career as a spineless jellyfish Paris Hilton's publicity agent corporate yes-man!
- Brave Mikuru is brave! (And shows better film-making sense than the director. )
- Kyon's RAGE!!11 starts to WARP REALITY! And BREAK THE FOURTH WALL! It changed the BGM! THE BGM!!!
- "What kind of evil do I have to do to live here?" Oh if only you knew, Kyon. If only you knew . . .
- Mikuru vs A Tequila Sunrise Sweet Sake! () A winner is flawless cockblocking by Kyon of Itsuki! Sorry Itsuki, no hot drunken sex for you!
- Mikuru gets Itsuki for . . . Itsuki!
- Kyon gets ANGRIER, and ANGRIER!!11 Yelling at Haruhi, issuing DEATH THREATS to Itsuki!
- *hic* Brave Mikureu 's br -thud-
- The Scene! The Fight of the Century! Kyon vs Haruhi for the Heavyweight Champ'nship of the WORLD!
- Kyon finally SNAPS! GRRAWR, ANGRY KYON IS ANGRY!!11 WE'RE GONNA TRY MY PLAN NOW! I'M GONNA GIT YOU GOOD, YOU CRAZY PSYCHOTIC BRATTY BI . . . GODDAMNIT, STUPID ITSUKI . . . ahh, that crazy Kyon, reaching through the fourth wall and hijacking my keyboard again.
- Itsuki kidnaps Kyon! White doves! KAWAII!!!
- Haruhi is the Alpha and the Omega! Repent, sinners, for the end of the world is nigh!
- Melancholy Haruhi Kyon is melancholy.
- Kyon = Taniguchi? Poor Kyon . . . you'll be scarred for life.
- Haruhi in a ponytail . . .
- Itsuki: "Damnit, Kyon! I said make up with her, not have hot makeup sex in the clubroom with her! You're such an idiot all the 'effin time most of the time sometimes, I don't know why I bother."

Spoiler:

No, they didn't really have hot makeup sex in the clubroom. Haruhi's so easy to please, Kyon should've just gotten her a kitten. Seriously. Though imagine how the movie would've turned out if they did have sex . . . poor Mikuru . . .

~~~

Coming next week!

Spoiler:

- Kyon gets a pet cat.
- ZOMG the cat TALKS!
- EPIC FILM EDITING!
- Kyon saves the day. AGAIN!

We've learned a valuable lesson, children. That no matter how utterly freakin' insane your boss is, you should do what he says. Without complaint. Or else, he'll destroy the world you're going to be a non-conformist and we can't have that, now, can we?

[Takamura Mamoru]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Falcon Punch vs. Mikuru Beam

You did this?

It's what got me into watching Haruhi.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Takamura Mamoru

You did this?

It's what got me into watching Haruhi.

That's incredibly cool. Yep, I'm CanadianHeMan from YouTube.

Gihren Zabi as Haruhi's dad just struck me as really funny and fitting at the time.

Of course... given how Falcon Punch vs. Mikuru Beam ends, I'm not sure how popular it'll be on this board.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Falcon wins?

[Heatth]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Heatth - If you want examples of Haruhi being good, the best example is her trip to the island villa, imo.

There, she...

1) Shows sincere and frequent thanks to Koizumi's "relatives" for hosting her and her Brigade.

2) Shows sincere concern for Kyon after his body breaks her fall. In the anime, this includes her flashing perhaps her sweetest smile ever towards him.

3) Is genuinely helping everyone have a good, playful time.

4) Is actually quite troubled and upset over a man seemingly being killed. She's actually showing some modicum of concern for a stranger.


Also, I don't recall her doing anything jerkish in that two-parter. That was Haruhi at her best, imo.

I was looking for exemples after Sighs. That is why I didn't use Lone Island (I agree with you, anyway). Also, you kinda did miss my point. I wasn't saying exemples of her being a good person but for exemples that show she can empathize with other people feeing.

That is why allowing Yuki have fun is a good exemple, she obviously didn't like(and said so many times) having one of her brigade members being 'used' by other people. However she did concede after seeing Yuki really wanted to.

Having this in mind, the baseball game is another exemple, as she did give up the tournament for the other team sake (she said it was because she had enough fun already, but she agreed only after Kyon explaining how bad they were).

[Aqua Knight]

Kyon's the man!
Instat 100/10
He should have punched her though.

[FlashFumo]

Wow. I was seriously impressed with this episode. The animation and art was top-notch. The acting was perfect, too. Aya's best performance imo.

Insta-10.

[Aqua Knight]

One thing bothers me though, when Kyon was saying," I don't care you're an animal ...." was he actually saying this or just thinking??

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

Falcon wins?

Well, it's been up for a year, and if I can't spoil something I made myself it's pretty bad... yeah, Falcon wins, but Mikuru lives (whereas Falcon dies stopping her). That's the compromise I made since I gave up trying to count the vote totals from the trailer that I made.

Originally, I was going to have whoever got the most votes win - at first, Falcon jumped out to a huge early lead, but Mikuru really gained steam later on. Eventually, I said 'screw it', and did the compromise ending.

[typhonsentra]

My favorite touch in the episode is just how well they portrayed Haruhi being hurt by Kyon's reaction to the fight with Kyon, in the novel he obviously doesn't notice so her reaction to him is barely mentioned but here we get to see all the details nicely. How when first confronted she doesn't know how to react so she takes about 2-3 seconds to decide to be angry with him but once she's on a role she doesn't break again to respond to his comments until the punch comes.

And after words, they way they portray her fighting back the tears was so well done, even better than I'd hoped for. The animation direction coupled with Hirano's voice acting really drove the point home.

[Ascaloth]

Episode 23 article is up:

[RIUVA] Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu (2009), Episode 23: Suzumiya Haruhi no Tameiki IV

This. This is the Suzumiya Haruhi I remember. 10/10.

[Vexx]

There's an old Twilight Zone episode that is illustrative of just how badly Haruhi could go left unchallenged.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_...ilight_Zone%29

Haruhi has a bitter vindictive streak that needs to be corralled - the other side of the Goddess. If there's any event that warranted a slap, this comes closest to it (though no one, not even Kyon, is sure he wasn't going to punch her in the face).

This episode is absolutely necessary to remind the viewer just how precarious the situation is. The Twilight Zone episode I reference shows where a completely unchecked Haruhi might lead to.

[Airman8]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Maybe you're right, Akka. This episode is really making me reconsider Haruhi.

I want to like her character a lot, since she can be so dynamic and entertaining and fun, and her character design is gorgeous, but... maybe I've gone too easy on her in the past.

... I've always been a sucker for a pretty face.

Well, keep in mind this is still an early stage in the series and she has a long way to go. We can't have our best Haruhi defender lose faith! All I'll say in order to avoid spoiling is that when I read Disappearance I got a very different impression of Haruhi. I think you have a lot to look forward to with Haruhi from a character development perspective, and a lot more good HaruhixKyon scenes. I think they have one of the funniest relationships I've ever seen in anime.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Airman8

Well, keep in mind this is still an early stage in the series and she has a long way to go. We can't have our best Haruhi defender lose faith! All I'll say in order to avoid spoiling is that when I read Disappearance I got a very different impression of Haruhi. I think you have a lot to look forward to with Haruhi from a character development perspective, and a lot more good HaruhixKyon scenes. I think they have one of the funniest relationships I've ever seen in anime.

Well... with that sort of encouragement, I'm back in the Haruhiist fold.

After all, as this episode shows, Haruhi turns darkness (doves) into light, and she even makes the flowers blossom and bloom.