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Old 2012-07-22, 17:42   Link #10121
Knighto
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"She's so smart she becomes stupid"

Zenkichi telling Shiranui about Medaka during chapter 3.

That foolishness is one of the traits of Medaka I like the most, because it makes her human.
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Old 2012-07-22, 17:45   Link #10122
ccie20012
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I do not agree that the Medaka do it is incorrect.
Medaka is most worried about Zen - in the end she loves him.
Let's look logically.
Opponents released from captivity Ajimu.
That's their strategy. Their initiative.
They look like idiots to let free to armed enemy that will destroy them?
I do not think.
While Zen is in hostages Medaka will be forced to play someone else's game.
She will not risk Zen life.

Why did you decide that Anshin'in-san better? Medaka says is correct - save the Zen it is my work. In the end, Medaka won all why she should entrust the salvation of Zen the other girl. I'm not about jealousy. I'm talking about professional quality.

Last edited by ccie20012; 2012-07-22 at 17:57.
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Old 2012-07-22, 17:47   Link #10123
Knighto
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During Flask Plan Medaka injected herself not once but TWICE a syringe Kujira gave her without even not caring about its content nor what it would do her.

She's simply as described; so smart she reverts back to stupid. She has been that way since the day she was born.
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Old 2012-07-22, 17:48   Link #10124
Tenchi Hou Take
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccie20012 View Post
I do not agree that the Medaka do it is incorrect.
Medaka is most worried about Zen - in the end she loves him.
Let's look logically.
Opponents released from captivity Ajumi.
That's their strategy. Their initiative.
They look like idiots to let free to armed enemy that will destroy them?
I do not think.
While Zen is in hostages Medaka will be forced to play someone else's game.
She will not risk Zen life.
Aijimu is a near omnipotent god, which even their trapping would have failed. They had jack shit for her hence why they relying precisely on Medaka's idiosy to keep this farce going.

Regardless of how you look at it it was a terrible choice. For goodness sake if Aijimu was going all out she can even manipulate time.

That's why the author had to use this plot device to keep her in check.
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Old 2012-07-22, 17:50   Link #10125
Kurosu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
Yeah that reasoning doesn't work. If she's in love with him she'd want him to be alive, full stop. Unless your going to argue she'd rather him be dead than not be the one to save him. It's not even like she's after his affection he freaking proposed to her.
I'm being facetious, it's an illogical reason regardless. She knows she'll be able to save him, and that they'll be able to save him if Ajimu did it,
but she just wants to be the one to do it. Because love. And that's stupid. Because it's love.
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Old 2012-07-22, 17:52   Link #10126
Randrak42
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Honestly...I wouldn't mind Zen dying (though he is one of my favorite characters) and staying dead (Not even Ajimu could bring him back for some reason) if it taught Medaka a lesson.

Something like, the card Zen is trapped in ends up being destroyed by Momo in a rage after she loses to Medaka in her little game, which in turn makes it so the body ceases to exist and for some reason every skill Ajimu has of resurrection requires the body. Medaka learns this, is broken and just to be an epic troll Ajimu tells her that it would have never happened if she had let her pride aside and let her take care of things.

Something along those lines...
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Old 2012-07-22, 17:52   Link #10127
Knighto
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Why making a fuss? Medaka is simply dumb, that's it, so smart yet so dumb.

And again, some of you are jumping the bandwagon without waiting for things to unfold and know the reasons for her choices.
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Old 2012-07-22, 17:58   Link #10128
Randrak42
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Originally Posted by Kurusu-Shirudo View Post
Why making a fuss? Medaka is simply dumb, that's it, so smart yet so dumb.

And again, some of you are jumping the bandwagon without waiting for things to unfold and know the reasons for her choices.
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Old 2012-07-22, 18:04   Link #10129
Knighto
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Indeed, letting Ajimu do all the job would soon end this in a matter of seconds.

However, the estipulation Medaka added in the rules for this game makes me suspect she is planning something else. Why one hour? Whatever is the reason behind, it seems as allowing Ajimu take part in it would mess up with what she's planning to do.
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Old 2012-07-22, 18:38   Link #10130
Knighto
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You know this game could last even days, right? The added estipulation makes this Shiritori the longest syllabic wordplay. And in the exact amount of time they should give an answer many things can be done.
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Old 2012-07-22, 18:50   Link #10131
Tenchi Hou Take
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurosu View Post
I'm being facetious, it's an illogical reason regardless. She knows she'll be able to save him, and that they'll be able to save him if Ajimu did it,
but she just wants to be the one to do it. Because love. And that's stupid. Because it's love.
Point is this has nothing to do with love. If she trully loved him him being alive would be her main priority, people do ridicuclous things in order to prevent there loved one from dying. It's basically betting on his life. Just because you have 3 Aces in poker does that make it all right to bet your loved ones lives on that hand. You'll probably win but there's also a chance you won't hence why it's moronic and almost immoral to do it.

This is the issue I'm talking about. By most humans concepts of love she's doing the exact opposite what most people in love would do.

This ofcourse assuming she's not doing this for an entirely different reason that has nothing to do with saving Zenkichi. But from face value, i'm unable to brush this this aside as "love".

Last edited by Daniel E.; 2012-08-05 at 21:30.
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Old 2012-07-22, 19:02   Link #10132
Knighto
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^The first course will be completed in 4 exact hrs, that alone should give anyone here an idea. Clearly, Medaka has something else in mind, and she doesn't want Ajimu to take part in the game nor to end things with one sweep because it would be counterproductive, likely.
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Old 2012-07-22, 19:06   Link #10133
Tenchi Hou Take
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurusu-Shirudo View Post
^The first course will be completed in 4 exact hrs, that alone should give anyone here an idea. Clearly, Medaka has something else in mind, and she doesn't want Ajimu to take part in the game nor to end things with one sweep because it would be counterproductive, likely.
This was what I was guessing I just hope I'm right.
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Old 2012-07-22, 19:07   Link #10134
Kurosu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
Point is this has nothing to do with love. If trully loved him him being alive would be her main priority, people do ridicuclous things in order to prevent there loved one from dying. It's basically betting on his life. Just because you have 3 Aces in poker does that make it all right to bet your loved ones lives on that hand. You'll probably win but there's also a chance you won't hence why it's moronic and almost immoral to do it.

This is the issue I'm talking about. By most humans concepts of love she's doing the exact opposite what most people in love would do.
You're judging her based on things an actual person would do. This a manga, this is Medaka. She's anything but regular.
And according to her, she's not betting on anyone's lives. To her, there's a 100% chance of success. She is so confident in herself, that she knows she'll win,
so there's no need to worry. Taking that into consideration, why shouldn't she be reckless with these kinds of decisions?

The way she sees it, either Ajimu or herself can end this completely. In such a case, she wants to be the one to do it, because of her pride and love for Zenkichi.
It's kinda petty in a way. But she hasn't been given a reason to doubt her abilities, with her kind of conviction such a thing was to be expected.
Which is why I'm confused why people are getting all riled up.
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Old 2012-07-22, 19:24   Link #10135
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by Kurosu View Post
You're judging her based on things an actual person would do. This a manga, this is Medaka. She's anything but regular.
And according to her, she's not betting on anyone's lives. To her, there's a 100% chance of success. She is so confident in herself, that she knows she'll win,
so there's no need to worry. Taking that into consideration, why shouldn't she be reckless with these kinds of decisions?

The way she sees it, either Ajimu or herself can end this completely. In such a case, she wants to be the one to do it, because of her pride and love for Zenkichi.
It's kinda petty in a way. But she hasn't been given a reason to doubt her abilities, with her kind of conviction such a thing was to be expected.
Which is why I'm confused why people are getting all riled up.
It's the obviously logical discrepany that she knows Aijimu could do it for certain with a higher percentage of success than she can for obvious reasons. It's my poker example again it's the difference between betting a family members life on 3 aces regardless how lucky you are and choosing not to bet there life at all or practically not. Fact of the matter is what she's doing is riskier than Aijimu's method. Why is she taking that risk, pride. That in itself he fucked up.

You shouldn't be taking that risk regardless how small on someone elses life. It's not even like said person was given a choice in this. Manga logic or not it's messed up regardless how u look at it.

It's not even like she's never lost before. She lost to Zenkichi.

I'm not saying these her actual reasons they probably aren't but if the current situation doesn't really change then she's being extremely dodgy.
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Old 2012-07-22, 19:26   Link #10136
Wolfenstein
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The anwser is simple: Medaka's arrogant as shit. And she's underestimating her opponents, and being more than a tad selfish. It's not like Anshin' san dosen't have her own feelings towards Zenkichi she wants to act upon.

But, like it's been said, she is one helluva stupid human being. In love. So it can be expected. And it's completely understandable. It's just that she's so bland and boring about it...
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Old 2012-07-22, 19:30   Link #10137
ccie20012
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You trust too much Ajimu and do not trust Medaka.
Ajimu said - I can save everyone.
Medaka said I could save everyone.
Why Medaka must give the work to someone else.
I think we should have more confidence in the choice of Medaka.
Do you think that if the Medaka said - let's Ajimu do it - then the next moment everything would be done.
But I guess the next time or Ajimu again would be captured or Zen would have died.
The main reason - the enemies are not complete idiots, they would have never released Ajimu, if it did not have an absolute technique to combat it.
They could just say - we free anyone, but not Ajimu (!) And Zen.
I would give Medaka opportunity to do their job.

Before I give all to the hands Ajimu - see prev chapters (this Arc) Ajimu won at someone? She just sat in jail.

Put yourself in the Medaka place. Ajimu that can be easily captured, and it did not come out to freedom itself. Yeah, maybe she did not care - free or not. Can not get - well, sit here.
Living a Zen or dead - in the end it for her is not priority number one.
There is a saying - "if you want to do something good, do it yourself."
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Old 2012-07-22, 19:40   Link #10138
Naginoura
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@Sol Falling: It's Momo and Shichika... Momoko reduces the beauty of Momozono Momo into nothingness while Ichika turns Shichika into Kazune... Nisio's names are special, so it gets really annoying to see them misspelled over and over again. ;;;;

@Tenchi Hou Take: It's "father figure (Tsurubami Fukurou)" not father (Kurokami Kajiki)... As Kujira pointed out, their father is safe and doing well...

There is no higher percentage than 100%. She is 100% sure both she and Ajimu have a 100% chance of saving Zenkichi and as Cross said, she wants to be the one to save him. We as the readers and those around her might see it in a different way, but this is the way Medaka sees it and as long as people around her agree to it and don't interfere, we have no right to judge.
You can call foul all you want, but next week or the week after that or the week after that or the week after that something will surely make all this make sense in a spectacular fashion, so there is no need to discuss it.

(What Cross means isn't manga logic in any way, it's the common sense of Medaka's own world --a world governed by whimsy more than anything else.)

In the end, the whimsical god would just create a new universe and revive Zenkichi there or just give up and erase the universe all together. We can't fathom how those without equals think now, can we... If the rules doesn't suit her, she'll remake them.


@ccie20012: If there is something Ajimu cannot do, it's because she doesn't want to do it yet. She is as omnipotent and omniscience as it gets. However, she is too whimsical and because she existed far longer than the universe itself, time is probably nothing to her. Waiting to see things unfold without helping -- that's what she was doing, not simply "staying in jail" because she couldn't leave.
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Old 2012-07-22, 19:40   Link #10139
Kurosu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
The anwser is simple: Medaka's arrogant as shit. And she's underestimating her opponents, and being more than a tad selfish. It's not like Anshin' san dosen't have her own feelings towards Zenkichi she wants to act upon.

But, like it's been said, she is one helluva stupid human being. In love. So it can be expected. And it's completely understandable. It's just that she's so bland and boring about it...
This, pretty much.

Though, did anyone really expect Anshin'in to just end the arc right now by god-moding it?
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Old 2012-07-22, 19:58   Link #10140
Tenchi Hou Take
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naginoura View Post
@Sol Falling: It's Momo and Shichika... Momoko reduces the beauty of Momozono Momo into nothingness while Ichika turns Shichika into Kazune... Nisio's names are special, so it gets really annoying to see them misspelled over and over again. ;;;;

@Tenchi Hou Take: It's "father figure (Tsurubami Fukurou)" not father (Kurokami Kajiki)... As Kujira pointed out, their father is safe and doing well...

There is no higher percentage than 100%. She is 100% sure both she and Ajimu have a 100% chance of saving Zenkichi and as Cross said, she wants to be the one to save him. We as the readers and those around her might see it in a different way, but this is the way Medaka sees it and as long as people around her agree to it and don't interfere, we have no right to judge.
You can call foul all you want, but next week or the week after that or the week after that or the week after that something will surely make all this make sense in a spectacular fashion, so there is no need to discuss it.

(What Cross means isn't manga logic in any way, it's the common sense of Medaka's own world --a world governed by whimsy more than anything else.)

In the end, the whimsical god would just create a new universe and revive Zenkichi there or just give up and erase the universe all together. We can't fathom how those without equals think now, can we... If the rules doesn't suit her, she'll remake them.


@ccie20012: If there is something Ajimu cannot do, it's because she doesn't want to do it yet. She is as omnipotent and omniscience as it gets. However, she is too whimsical and because she existed far longer than the universe itself, time is probably nothing to her. Waiting to see things unfold without helping -- that's what she was doing, not simply "staying in jail" because she couldn't leave.
Your pedantic, you knew what I meant she considered him to be her father like an adoptive father would though he didn't actually adopt her.

That's not how it works she admitted Aijimu is a more powerful and that she could easily save him, but she'd rather take the risk a risk she was well aware of, she didn't even completely understand the rules of their game back then, so ofcourse she knew the risk, you can't be 100% in a game you don't know the rules of, unless your honestly going to argue for that which case lol... she was confident in her abilities and wanted to fight for Zenkichi, but it's clear as day she was taking a risk on his life.
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