[Manga] Chapter 498 Discussion

[ragnos007]

Originally Posted by SuigetsuKun

What are you havering about, boy?
Suigetsu has been amazing the day he was born and don't tell me no sh!t about Lee 'cause he's just a weakling compared to anyone now, especially compared to Suigetsu. He won't compare. His time's over. stop running off at the mouth and get some glasses. Lee could not do anything to Suigetsu. To Lee, Suigetsu is invincible. He can't be defeated with mere taijutsu.

not exactly buddy. Think about it for a second. Yes Suigetsu is strong and has a special ability to turn into water (since he is made of water i think it was said). Now think to the Gai vs Kisame fight. Kisame summoned WATER sharks that were practically impervious against gai's taijutsu. But when Gai opened the gates the strength of the chakra being released was able to kill them. But we still dont know enough about Suigetsu's water morphing ability. It might need a mental link to activate it. What i mean by that is that suigetsu might have to think about turning into water. If thats the case then the match would be a draw because neither would be able to do anything to each other - Lee being really fast and able to dodge suigetsus attacks and suigetsu would have to turn to water to deal with lees attacks. Basically it would be a bad matchup. Not to mention that suigetsu has lost his Swordsman Blade. I never really understood how that sword was special anyway... Anyone want to fill me in on that.
When you compare that sword to Samehada and the Hiramekarei that Chojiro and those lightning blades from the filler anime, then Suigetsu sword is/was just a big long sword with a whole in it. Nothing really was revealed about it that made it special enough to be a sword of the 7 swordsmen.

[ragnos007]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

Indeed... one thing i still don't recall ever hearing an answer for is WHY the truth of Naruto's parents was hidden from him; especially after Naruto found out about the kyuubi inside of him

Maybe Naruto might have started demanding respect because of his progeny. Maybe the villagers would scorn yondaime for his heartlessness for sealing it in his own son. Maybe Naruto would have been slagged even more for being so dumb and stuff considering he is the son of a genius. Minato said that if it was revealed that naruto was his son it would have caused problems.

[james0246]

Minato said that if it was revealed that naruto was his son it would have caused problems.

Yeah, no matter how stupid it sounds, Minato explained that Naruto's heritage was hidden to protect the little bugger (initial speculation was focused on Iwa, but the Kumo-douche brigade is slowly climbing up the most wanted list).

[felix]

Originally Posted by ragnos007

Maybe the villagers would scorn yondaime for his heartlessness for sealing it in his own son. Maybe Naruto would have been slagged even more for being so dumb and stuff considering he is the son of a genius.

The truth was not hidden from the higher ups, only the kids (the parents would call him the fox kid). Its easier to go with the predictable outcome of being a nobody then with the not so predictable son of dead genius.

That said your hypothesis that it was done to protect him from aggression caused by his stupidity is invalid. The fox was sealed when he was a baby, they had no way of knowing how stupid he was back then when the decision was made.

ps. red haired naruto would have been better

[christinemarie]

Originally Posted by felix

The truth was not hidden from the higher ups, only the kids (the parents would call him the fox kid). Its easier to go with the predictable outcome of being a nobody then with the not so predictable son of dead genius.

That said your hypothesis that it was done to protect him from aggression caused by his stupidity is invalid. The fox was sealed when he was a baby, they had no way of knowing how stupid he was back then when the decision was made.

ps. red haired naruto would have been better

- Classic Naruto [limited chakra, can mass produce lots of kagebunshins, can't use FRS without being damaged.]
- Sage Mode Naruto [5 minute limit, all stats are boost, can use 1~2 FRS, can sense any chakra of any individual. Can only use 2~4 kagebunshins]

-----
- Red-Haired Nine Tails Kyuubi Form Naruto [not yet confirmed, probably better than Sage Mode Naruto.]

-----
- Immune to MS Classic Naruto [not yet confirmed, can only be achieved if Sasuke or Madara is his opponent, can't use any other abilities.]

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by james0246

Yeah, no matter how stupid it sounds, Minato explained that Naruto's heritage was hidden to protect the little bugger (initial speculation was focused on Iwa, but the Kumo-douche brigade is slowly climbing up the most wanted list).

I was actually more or less fine with that explanation until this chapter. But now we know that his mother Uzumaki Kushina had special chakra (which Naruto most likely inherited) that Kumo coveted badly enough to kidnap her, yet they gave Naruto her last name... Makes perfect sense, there's no way they'll ever figure it out this way!

And I have a hard time believing no one knew Minato and Kushina were together, so the adult villagers are most likely all aware of who Naruto's parents are.

[ragnos007]

Originally Posted by Kanon

I was actually more or less fine with that explanation until this chapter. But now we know that his mother Uzumaki Kushina had special chakra (which Naruto most likely inherited) that Kumo coveted badly enough to kidnap her, yet they gave Naruto her last name... Makes perfect sense, there's no way they'll ever figure it out this way!

And I have a hard time believing no one knew Minato and Kushina were together, so the adult villagers are most likely all aware of who Naruto's parents are.

lol yeah thats an awesome point i never really thought of it that way. Perhaps they did know and the whole secrecy thing was so that naruto wouldnt know. Perhaps if naruto knew from the beginning that his parents sealed the fox in him that he would grow up hating them with a passion and hating everyone else more so.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by ragnos007

Maybe Naruto might have started demanding respect because of his progeny. Maybe the villagers would scorn yondaime for his heartlessness for sealing it in his own son. Maybe Naruto would have been slagged even more for being so dumb and stuff considering he is the son of a genius. Minato said that if it was revealed that naruto was his son it would have caused problems.

- Or it might have inspired Naruto to live up to his father's legacy
- Ya, cause sealing the demon inside a orphan is SOOOO much less heartless
- Or, again, it might have inspired Naruto to live up to his father's legacy
Ya in those cases you're dealing with complete unknowns... i mean we've seen children of famous people before and they almost never turn into douche's in kohona... it's all in how you raise em' (another mystery is the question of who the hell raised Naruto for the first 12 years of his life)

AS for the danger to naruto... currently having trouble seeing it...
If it was because of the ninetails; well saying that Naruto was the son of the 4th does not at all peg him as the host (So you got reason to keep the demon tight lipped but not his heritage)... Being the son of yondiame as well does not seem to fly because he's not the only child of a famous guy who must have killed many enemy ninjas in his time. Now there's the special chakra of kushina, but as Kanon pointed out he carried his mother's name; not to mention his mothers name alone could easily lead enemies to make the connection to Minato... I also don't think Naruto knowing would have exposed him; i mean the rest of the village has managed to keep the secret just fine, so would one loudmouth kid make much of a difference... afterall, what exactly are the chances that whatever danger threatened Naruto would ever actually hear Naruto himself say that he's the son of minato? honestly, if Naruto's life is so threatened, just give him a pair of jounins to act as his foster parents (again someone needs to raise him anyway)

Ya you'd think Minato would be more clear with Naruto as to WHAT kind of danger might have been caused by him knowing about his family... Afterall, one would think that he should be WARNED of anykind of potential future threat to his person, and deserves a EXACT answer of why he had to grow up alone, without even knowing who his parents were when EVERYONE seemed to know... really i think knowing WHY knowing who his father was would have lead to danger would be pretty damn important information for him... but no i guess we don't get that...

[SuigetsuKun]

Originally Posted by ragnos007

But we still dont know enough about Suigetsu's water morphing ability. It might need a mental link to activate it. What i mean by that is that suigetsu might have to think about turning into water.

Well... he certainly does not have to think about it. He is made of water. The downside is that he has to drink a lot of water. Samehada ran through him and that took a lot of chakra from him, but it did not hurt him because there's neither flesh nor blood. It's his ability... making him almost as invulnerable as Madara with some special downsides. I wonder if Orochimaru's experiments made him like that or if it's been his ability ever since and thus a Kekkei Genkai.

Originally Posted by ragnos007

Not to mention that suigetsu has lost his Swordsman Blade. I never really understood how that sword was special anyway... Anyone want to fill me in on that.
When you compare that sword to Samehada and the Hiramekarei that Chojiro and those lightning blades from the filler anime, then Suigetsu sword is/was just a big long sword with a whole in it. Nothing really was revealed about it that made it special enough to be a sword of the 7 swordsmen.

Kubikiri Hōchō (首斬り包丁; English "Executioner's Blade"; Literally meaning "Decapitating Carving Knife"): A giant knife with a butcher-knife-like appearance, the wielder can use the hole on the blade to grab an opponent's head and decapitate them, hence the name. It has a detachable handle to make it easier to carry around.

It seems hard to explain... I mean Kishimoto introduced that blade long before he decided on exaggerating in any possible way. The sword was introduced as one special weapon. It's been proven by Sasuke that this blade is a chakra blade (it can absorb the user's chakra), so using this sword as a fuuton or raiton user might have a completely different outcome than using it as a suiton user (which does not make sense)... but I admit that this one is not as special as the other swords we've seen so far and it has been destroyed by Killerbee and Raikage.
Samehada seems to be on a complete different level, but that sword is dangerous, too. It takes the user's chakra, so you need to have a giant chakra pool to begin with. In addition, it gives you the chakra of your victims.

Well, I won't go into detail here. Suigetsu wants to collect all the seven swords.

[Luminion Lancer]

Originally Posted by Kanon

I was actually more or less fine with that explanation until this chapter. But now we know that his mother Uzumaki Kushina had special chakra (which Naruto most likely inherited) that Kumo coveted badly enough to kidnap her, yet they gave Naruto her last name... Makes perfect sense, there's no way they'll ever figure it out this way!

-Actually, if Kumo went after Naruto while concluding on his surname that he must be related to Kushina (which he is) they'd end up the bigger douchebags than Konoha. Think about it; they tried and failed with Kushina which resulted in Konoha being aware of their intentions, which means making a second attempt is rather stupid. If they made no subsequent attempts on her then that means one of 2 things: they could not get at her or they lost interest. So either way, Naruto is safe from Kumogakure (unless this alliance proves to bite him in the ass later on).

Originally Posted by Kanon

And I have a hard time believing no one knew Minato and Kushina were together, so the adult villagers are most likely all aware of who Naruto's parents are.

-Remember, the villagers of the past were quite the dickheads when it came to discussing Naruto. They would have preferred it that he disappear back then. On the other hand, Naruto's heritage was likely kept under radar by Sarutobi Hiruzen (Sandaime Hokage) in both Konoha and outside it. He likely made another rule not to discuss Naruto's parents or something.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by SuigetsuKun

It seems hard to explain... I mean Kishimoto introduced that blade long before he decided on exaggerating in any possible way. The sword was introduced as one special weapon. It's been proven by Sasuke that this blade is a chakra blade (it can absorb the user's chakra), so using this sword as a fuuton or raiton user might have a completely different outcome than using it as a suiton user (which does not make sense)... but I admit that this one is not as special as the other swords we've seen so far and it has been destroyed by Killerbee and Raikage.

It hasn't even been shown to be a chakra blade, Sasuke can do that with any kind of metallic weapon thanks to the properties of Raiton jutsu.
Zabuza's sword is just a victim of power inflation like most things introduced at the beginning of the story.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by ragnos007

If thats the case then that would mean that every sensor type is a kekkei genkai. That said then Fu Yamanaka (danzous escort) has 2 kekkei genkai. Perhaps even those who can control bijuu (like bee) have a kekkei genkai because its clear that not everyone can control a bijuu. But they are just technicalities.
Also the Translation of kekkei genkai into Bloodline Limit is incorrect aswell because if its not in your family then it cant be a bloodLINE limit. Bloodline means family either predecessors and/or successors. If its not in your family it can't technically be considered a bloodline. Just a special ability, a special inner strength.

Every ability is genetical, and we know how that works: sometimes you can see the ability manifest very often and sometimes very rarely. Very rarely asian or black people are born with blue eyes or white people with black skin. We can say that the rinnegan is the most rare ability, but the genetic data that makes the rinnegan is passively present in many people in the narutoverse. The byakugan seems to be a dominant gene, most of the Hyuuga have it (i don't know if the data book says anything about that). So i guess that almost every ability's inheritance can be called a "bloodline" in a sense that it can be inherited. Then there may be genetical mutations that probably cannot be inherited, but i guess such non-inheritable mutations are only a few, for example Juugo.

Originally Posted by Poetic Justice

I think there's strong evidence to suggest that Kishi did a 180 on minato's personality halfway through the series. He was originally planning on him being more like naruto but decided to do a switcheroo instead. So much for consistency.

I can see evidence for the opposite only. Where did you see that?
We know that Minato didn't have any special abilities/demons like Naruto or the Uchiha, but despite that he became hokage and was a very smart person, since even the all-knowing 3rd hokage learned from him a jutsu. In the Kakashi gaiden we see that he could see the weaknes in kakashi's jutsu the first time he saw Kakashi using it. When Jiraiya compares Naruto to Minato he tells Naruto that he is stupid compared to the 4th hokage. Naruto and Sasuke always survived because of their special powers, someone like Minato had to be much smarter to survive, not having any haxx-ability like a huge demon or eyes-that-can-evolve-forever. A hot-headed guy like Naruto with no help from kyuubi would already be dead. People who are able to think about plans to help their family and village even when they face death are like Itachi, Minato did set up his seal to help Naruto far in the future, just like Itachi did plant something into Naruto and then into Sasuke while he was on his death.

Add to all this that people change, that's the really interesting part, so both Naruto and Sasuke will be different at the end of the manga. Naruto already underwent a change where he became kind of a jesus-naruto. If you began to read this manga at the point where Naruto is attacked by kumo ninja and beaten by them would you even guess that in the beginnin of the manga he wanted to fight with everyone and so on.

[SuigetsuKun]

Originally Posted by Hunter

It hasn't even been shown to be a chakra blade, Sasuke can do that with any kind of metallic weapon thanks to the properties of Raiton jutsu.
Zabuza's sword is just a victim of power inflation like most things introduced at the beginning of the story.

Well, in that case it does not make sense he introduced it. Most readers had forgotten about the sword or didn't care what happened to it. Instead, they even manipulated the plot from manga to anime and so on. It does not make sense to re-introduce the blade in order to destroy it, but that's exactly what happened.

[yakumo-chan]

Originally Posted by SuigetsuKun

Well, in that case it does not make sense he introduced it. Most readers had forgotten about the sword or didn't care what happened to it. Instead, they even manipulated the plot from manga to anime and so on. It does not make sense to re-introduce the blade in order to destroy it, but that's exactly what happened.

I have a feeling that the Executioner blade will have its meaning in the late chapters..... cause... why bring it back???? to see it destroyed??

dont you guys even ask yourselves why the executioner blade is one of the swords of the seven swordsmen???

it looks pretty normal to me if you ask me.... maybe it has a hidden power inside it...

[iBeast]

Minato reminds me of a much much much stronger Kakashi with no weakness and more purpose. Kushina probably resembles Sakura most physically, but mentally and power wise I say no.

And yea I can't believe Sasuke's mother was a jounin...his parents looked pretty weak to be honest...

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by SuigetsuKun

Well, in that case it does not make sense he introduced it. Most readers had forgotten about the sword or didn't care what happened to it. Instead, they even manipulated the plot from manga to anime and so on. It does not make sense to re-introduce the blade in order to destroy it, but that's exactly what happened.

That sword was just a tool to advance the plot. It is in Suigetsu's character to not simply follow Sasuke's orders but have his own goals as well, so Kishimoto invented this sword-mania for him. The other reason is to show that there still is some level of connection between Sasuke and Naruto, when Sasuke looks at the bridge named Naruto we see a faint smile on him, he still didnt destroy his connection with team7.

The destruction of the sword also meant that the theme of the manga is getting darker, i mean Suigetsu is a funny guy and his sword-collecting is something unrelated to the main plot which is quite serious as opposed to Suigetsu. As Sasuke fell into the darkness Suigetsu was removed, since his funny behaviour does not fit the Sasuke-theme now

[Nite-Wing]

Didn't sasuke lose his kusanagi sword when fighting Danzou?
Theres been a lot of that lately.

[Poetic Justice]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

I can see evidence for the opposite only. Where did you see that?
We know that Minato didn't have any special abilities/demons like Naruto or the Uchiha, but despite that he became hokage and was a very smart person, since even the all-knowing 3rd hokage learned from him a jutsu. In the Kakashi gaiden we see that he could see the weaknes in kakashi's jutsu the first time he saw Kakashi using it. When Jiraiya compares Naruto to Minato he tells Naruto that he is stupid compared to the 4th hokage. Naruto and Sasuke always survived because of their special powers, someone like Minato had to be much smarter to survive, not having any haxx-ability like a huge demon or eyes-that-can-evolve-forever. A hot-headed guy like Naruto with no help from kyuubi would already be dead. People who are able to think about plans to help their family and village even when they face death are like Itachi, Minato did set up his seal to help Naruto far in the future, just like Itachi did plant something into Naruto and then into Sasuke while he was on his death.

What i meant was that Kishi intended for minato to be the carefree trickster type guy based on some of his panels in kakashi gaiden. As opposed to his now established silent demeanor. He instead gave the traits to kushina.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Poetic Justice

What i meant was that Kishi intended for minato to be the carefree trickster type guy based on some of his panels in kakashi gaiden. As opposed to his now established silent demeanor. He instead gave the traits to kushina.

Hmmm, don't really see it...

During the Kakashi Gaiden Minato was easy-going, but still serious and somewhat stern, even during the non-battle scenes. Nothing particularly pointed to him being a carefree prankster. As someone else pointed out, I think his personality most closely resembled present-day Kakashi if anything (which was probably intentional).

His characterization has been pretty consistent, which is probably why it was decided Naruto would inherit his mother's personality because Minato had already been established as calm and collected.

[Poetic Justice]

There were certain cover images which suggested it, Like this one.