One Piece - Chapter 1044 [manga]

[Ophis]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

So with the new information from the Gorosei, who is responsible for those things? Luffy's original character or the DF he ate that has those same properties?

I would add that the Gorosei are important and rare characters in the story. Oda wouldn't have them talking about frivolous things. They are basically the narrator in this chapter so their description of the DF is real

You are ignoring the most obvious and simple explanation to all of this, while raging about the most farfetched possibility of Luffy being possessed/controlled by his fruit...

It's obviously Luffy's own actions and will all along, and that he was able to awaken his devil fruit precisely because he himself embodied those ideals, which matched with what the Gomu Gomu embodied. You need to be a Warrior of Liberation to awaken the fruit in the first place, it's not the fruit that will make you one. There's a reason why no one has been capable of awakening the Gomu Gomu for 800 years since Joyboy...

The very same Gorosei you mentioned also said that Zoans have their wills and the Gomu Gomu has been running away from them for freaking 800 years, so the fruit choosing who is worth of using its powers should also be one of its capabilities, just like swords can.

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Now about the chapter itself, I honestly didn't like the direction Oda took with Luffy's powers. I've never been a fan of these Toon Force, power of imagination and other forms of abstract powers that can just be whatever the author wants. I also didn't like the visual of Luffy's G5 either.

Let's see how Oda will handle this and what limitations he'll add, but I'll probably still keep not liking it.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by OH&S

Firstly, they renamed the fruit because it had Nika's name in it. They were trying to scrub out Nika from history.

For centuries the WG has been trying to acquire the gomu gomu no mi because they knew of its true capabilities, obviously. They didn't want it to fall into anyone else's hands. The fruit hasn't awakened since the last Joy Boy 800 years ago, which is why the awakening was treated as a legend. If Nika had a DF that was relatively unimpressive, you think the WG would be freaking out like they are right now? Bullshit. Coincidentally, Nika the sun god shared the same name as the fruit, but that's clearly not the main reason they renamed it. They want it so badly because they know what it really is.

It's not about the success rate of killing Luffy. It's about a situation that warrants an appropriate response. For them to just respond now with this sense of urgency after 25 years is idiotic.

[necrolyte]

I like the chapter but I really don't understand why are people so protective of Oda when it is so obvious that this DF revelation is a retcon. I will just add a few more points supporting this + everything else already mentioned by other users.
1. We haven't seen a single DF before in the 1000 chapters of the series that changed the user's personallity like Luffy changed his after he awakened.
2. The single DF that was able to bring someone back to life was Brook's.
3. One more point supporting the retcon is what Gorousei said that zoan DF's have a will of their own, this is another inconsistency because we have never seen other zoan fruit showing any will. Up until now they were just fruits that give special powers.

One more thing to mention is that I am not a huge fan of this imagination/looney tunes power because I've seen it so many times before already.

P.S. I like One Piece a lot, it is in my top 3 of all time, but this is not a reason for me to close my eyes when there is clearly something ill-conceived.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by necrolyte

P.S. I like One Piece a lot, it is in my top 3 of all time, but this is not a reason for me to close my eyes when there is clearly something ill-conceived.

I agree. I'm a fan of One Piece and it's also one of my favourites. But that doesn't mean it's exempt from any criticism.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by necrolyte

3. One more point supporting the retcon is what Gorousei said that zoan DF's have a will of their own, this is another inconsistency because we have never seen other zoan fruit showing any will. Up until now they were just fruits that give special powers.

Actually, I'd say the fact Zoan fruits can be fed to inanimate objects which then come alive supports them having a will.

[MAX_COLA_POWER!]

F for Logias. With all these ancient and mythical zoans popping up, outside of Teach’s, they’ve become so common now.

[itachi-san314]

Yea, little did those loser Logia-using Admirals know back at Marineford that the little rubber rookie in front of them actually had the most ridiculous power of all

[Ophis]

Originally Posted by necrolyte

3. One more point supporting the retcon is what Gorousei said that zoan DF's have a will of their own, this is another inconsistency because we have never seen other zoan fruit showing any will. Up until now they were just fruits that give special powers.

This is not a point supporting the retcon though? Did you forget that inanimate objects can be fed Zoan fruits and thus gain "life"?

If I had to bet here, it surely wouldn't be on the will coming from the inanimate object.

[Galaxian]

Originally Posted by Ophis

This is not a point supporting the retcon though? Did you forget that inanimate objects can be fed Zoan fruits and thus gain "life"?

If I had to bet here, it surely wouldn't be on the will coming from the inanimate object.

The Zoan + inanimate objects feels more like Oda retrofitting something he already established than a clever set up decades in the making.

We first see on of these Zoan users in Alabasta beloing to Mr. 4, then after Eins Lobby Cody mentions that objects Zoans are a fairly new discovery by Vegapunk, and now we see that in Wano, a place so isolate from the rest of the world (an out of reach from the WG) to the point they don't even know the term Devil Fruit, has objects that have "eaten" a Zoan fruit.

This just feels like one of those cases when Oda realize that the new development he is introducing fits with a preexisting concept.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Galaxian

The Zoan + inanimate objects feels more like Oda retrofitting something he already established than a clever set up decades in the making.

Exactly. People are desperate to make this gigantic retcon fit somehow. When Kaku ate the Giraffe DF did he feel any change regarding willpower or did he just gain the power to change into giraffe forms? Kaido has an entire army of zoan DF users. Did their wills have any change from eating those fruits? Did the fruit choose them because their initial willpower mirrored its own? Again it makes no sense

[khoa1708]

ok so there's a couple of things I'm waiting for oda's clarification on:

- have what we been reading about luffy all these years luffy? or just joy boy's will put into luffy because of the fruit?

- if the WG was trying to keep this special "gomu gomu" fruit for hundred of years, why only have ONE CP agent guarding it?

- did oda just make up this mythical "nika" god? because the other mythical zoans are "known": phoenix, buddha, dragon, etc... nika seems random at best; a rubber god that has "toon force" powers?

some opinions i have:

I do NOT believe for one second oda had all of this planned or foreshadowed. I believe this Nika stuff was a recent decision. It's kinda funny to see fans dig and dig for obscure panels or information within the series to justify this Nika. Someone even said on the first ever cover page of the manga you can see a figure of Nika on the boat. I also don't believe that one skypiea scene with luffy dancing around the fire is foreshadowing of Nika either.

This new "toon" power seems like a Deus ex Machina brought into a story since the power of imagination can basically be written to defeat anything it goes up against. If Oda wanted to he could create something like, "oh Luffy fabricated this new special type of rubber that's so shiny where it's like a mirror and he used it to reflect the sun light into BB to defeat his darkness" or luffy pulled this random rubber hammer out of the ground to destroy all of Akainu's fireballs.

since when have we ever been told zoan fruits have minds/will of their own? this seems like a new addition too. So zoan fruits is like the ring of power in LoTR; it's trying to get back to its master?

[necrolyte]

Haha, I like this reference to LoTR
To the person who wrote about the inanimated objects being foreshadowing of this will power of Zoan fruits, to me it's more like retrofitting, as what Galaxian said but I don't actually mind people having different opinion so I will leave it at that.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by khoa1708

So zoan fruits is like the ring of power in LoTR; it's trying to get back to its master?

Yes. And Frodo also ate a biscuit imbued with the desire to save Middle Earth and carry the ring to Mt Doom

[Gerard07]

Still no spoilers for the new chapter?.

[Kanon]

Zoan fruits having a mind of their own is definitely retrofitting, but at least it fits relatively seamlessly into the narrative. Gomu gomu being a mythical zoan? That came out of fucking nowhere. It was only foreshadowed 30 chapters before (in a 1000+ chapter series), it's rather poor writing. And I still fail to see what it adds to the story.

[Tuor]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

Yes. And Frodo also ate a biscuit imbued with the desire to save Middle Earth and carry the ring to Mt Doom

Lembas is, essentially, food for the Will. So while it didn't give him the initial desire to take the Ring to Mt. Doom, it did strengthen his will to help him achieve it.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Zoan fruits having a mind of their own is definitely retrofitting, but at least it fits relatively seamlessly into the narrative. Gomu gomu being a mythical zoan? That came out of fucking nowhere. It was only foreshadowed 30 chapters before (in a 1000+ chapter series), it's rather poor writing. And I still fail to see what it adds to the story.

Yea, the will of the zoan fruits is barely worth mentioning compared to the other stuff. I'd even be fine with Luffy's new cartoon powers if his fruit just remained the Rubber DF. It makes sense for the Rubber DF awakening to turn everything into cartoonish rubber-like material. No need at all to make it a mythical zoan with ambiguous powers and a will of its own that matches Luffy's.

I don't see what these new retcons add either. They clearly will be important for the future of the story, but that also means that it won't end up making total sense.

[MAX_COLA_POWER!]

Yeah I have to agree about Luffy's fruit staying as a paramecia rather than changing it into a mythical zoan too. With Yamato's possible joining and the number of them increasing to 2, where will that leave Chopper's, Robin's, and Brook's abilities? I rather have their own fruit abilities evolve in a way that doesn't change their schematic completely and lower their value as crewmates, like is Brook gonna be a Will-o-Wisp logia now? Is Robin gonna be a Super Paramecia that can make bloom entire architectures? And which mythical/ancient being can we add to Chopper's basic Human Human fruit? Looks aside and the cartoony beatdown towards Kaido aside since I never cared much for villain characters regardless of backstory, that's my only gripe with this move.

[OH&S]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

I agree. I'm a fan of One Piece and it's also one of my favourites. But that doesn't mean it's exempt from any criticism.

This is a general response but... of course One Piece and Oda aren't exempt from any criticism. You only have to go read the past chapter threads for this very arc to see people freely criticizing the ongoing events. Hell, even I've had some choice words for how I've felt the raid has progressed and whether its been satisfying or not.

But usually when people are fairly criticizing the series, its over events that have actually happened as opposed to whatever headcanon or fanfiction everyone seems to be up in arms about in this thread.

• Its fair to not like the cartoony aesthetic of Gear 5th; that's a personal opinion.
• Its fair to question the potential plot holes opened by the Gomu Gomu Fruit being the Nika Fruit; there's valid discussion to be had there.
• Its fair to have the opinion that this development is a retcon; the first direct foreshadowing for this happened less than 30 chapters ago.

But I swear, every other argument put forth sounds like people imagining the worst outcome without there being any supporting evidence in the manga. Almost as if they want to criticize it.

• Its not fair to complain about Luffy having the power of imagination when that was the description of his base abilities which he's been doing the entire series.
• Its not fair to complain about Luffy seemingly being possessed or having a "personality change" when all he's doing is laughing his ass off.
• Its not fair to suggest that there's ANY ambiguity the Nika fruit has mentally compelled him to do whatever actions he's been doing the entire series when Zoan DFs have never worked like that in the entire series (let alone this arc) and we've already seen the events in Luffy's life that shaped him into the man he was at the beginning of the series.

As for everyone questioning WHY this development had to happen; the answer is: it didn't HAVE to happen but its better for the story that it did when you consider the overarching themes of the story.

I'm just going to drop these two videos to expand on that point:

YouTube

https://youtu.be/tUOIDttL0NU

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YouTube

https://youtu.be/JLN-jkq0h0k

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[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by OH&S

But I swear, every other argument put forth sounds like people imagining the worst outcome without there being any supporting evidence in the manga. Almost as if they want to criticize it.
[*]Its not fair to complain about Luffy having the power of imagination when that was the description of his base abilities which he's been doing the entire series.

Why doesn't Katakuri have the power of imagination then?

[*]Its not fair to complain about Luffy seemingly being possessed or having a "personality change" when all he's doing is laughing his ass off.

He did die. Keep that in mind. I'm 50/50 on him being possessed, but it's fair to bring it up

[*]Its not fair to suggest that there's ANY ambiguity the Nika fruit has mentally compelled him to do whatever actions he's been doing the entire series when Zoan DFs have never worked like that in the entire series (let alone this arc) and we've already seen the events in Luffy's life that shaped him into the man he was at the beginning of the series.

Again, you're ignoring what the Gorosei said. Who brought freedom to Alabasta and put a smile on their faces?