Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Unless you got a source saying otherwise, I daresay the Strike Freedom is more expensive to build than the Infinite Justice, given the Voiture Lumiere system and Super DRAGOON systems. Not to mention the more advanced joints they had to make for it, and the extra beam shield compared to the Infinite Justice...

My source is playing Texas Hold'em in the Gold room of a Monaco Casino...

But the point is: We'll never really know, because Injustice didn't do much of $hit with all the $hit it had, like literally nothing compared to SF... So I stand by my Gucci bag endorsement...

[Rising Dragon]

Well, your reasoning sucks, frankly. The Infinite Justice's equipment was mostly standard stuff. The Strike Freedom and Destiny had the really complicated systems built in.

[wingdarkness]

Please don't let my playful comparisons to galaxy planets and Gucci bags get to you...I was content with the coolness of my first post, frankly...You were the wrong fish...Gonna throw you back OK?

Infinite Justice may not have cost more than SF, you may be right...

[The American Average]

considering the next episode is going to be a recap, i wonder if there will be new scenes and such like a picture clip show or something.

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by The American Average

oh boy dat meer

Needed more bouncing boobs.

[S.Freedom]

Ugh I feel a headache coming on after watching Luna's reactions to meer/Lacus get close to Athrun. And it only get's worse after she finds them in the same room. *facepalm*

I mean I know she has the hots for him. But come on, she "knew" Lacus was his fiancé, what did she reasonably expect their interactions would be like?

[Aquaman OS]

Lacus was never clingy to him before though, nor was she bitchy to other women or....anyone really. But since Meer doesn't seem to have any kind of understand as to what Lacus is actually like other than a speechmaker and singer, she doesn't know this.

Probably just her noticing how "different" Lacus now is. And unlike the male techies who were all just "Oh well I like slutty large chested Lacus better anyhow" Luna got annoyed instead.

Of course their engagement was publically cancelled, and Athrun was publically known to have vanished from Plant for two years, so why Meer is still acting like they're still engaged when nobody, not Athrun or Durandal himself have given any indication this is the case is either Meer not knowing what was actually going on, or Meer just desiring Lacus's life, Athrun included.

[monster]

I doubt Lunamaria would know any better than Meer about how Lacus conducts herself in private.

As for their engagement being cancelled, I'm guessing people would know that Athrun sided with Lacus over his own father. So it doesn't really matter if his father cancelled the engagement, to those who don't know, Athrun was still with Lacus.

[quagmire]

Another thing I wondered.... Why didn't Athrun tell Nicol about Kira? If anyone would have understood, it would have been him. He wasn't like Yzak and Dearka who would call him a coward, etc if they found out. But, Nicol would have understood.

That fact could have saved his life since he may not have made that suicide run to let Athrun escape since he could make a decent bet Kira would not have dealt the fatal blow to Athrun.

[Rising Dragon]

Why?

Because how else would they have that conflict at the halfway mark?

[Kuroi Hadou]

Isn't the better question "why would he tell Nicol?"? As far as I can remember, Athrun did everything he could to keep his connection with the Strike's pilot a secret.

[Rising Dragon]

Hell, he'd been ordered to keep his mouth shut about it by his father, IIRC.

[Znozzy]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Well, your reasoning sucks, frankly. The Infinite Justice's equipment was mostly standard stuff. The Strike Freedom and Destiny had the really complicated systems built in.

Honestly, i dunno about that, the I-Justice had pretty hi-tech stuff. A shield with a beam shield and beam boomerang plus a grappling hook. Well, and a standard beam rifle.

Overall it's a pretty hi-spec suit, knee-sabers, backpack, NJC, lots of Melee beam stuff, hell, it's backpack was a flying weapon mount with the beam cannons, built-in beam sabers, etc.

It's pretty high-spec for it's time, only outdone by Strike-Freedom in the long range department and the Akatsuki for swag-effects.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Znozzy

Honestly, i dunno about that, the I-Justice had pretty hi-tech stuff. A shield with a beam shield and beam boomerang plus a grappling hook. Well, and a standard beam rifle.

Overall it's a pretty hi-spec suit, knee-sabers, backpack, NJC, lots of Melee beam stuff, hell, it's backpack was a flying weapon mount with the beam cannons, built-in beam sabers, etc.

It's pretty high-spec for it's time, only outdone by Strike-Freedom in the long range department and the Akatsuki for swag-effects.

All of its equipment except for the Beam Shield, however, were already proven technology and for the most part standard. Beam sabers? Already been done. Mounted beam blades? Already been done. Beam boomerangs? Already been done. Grappling hook? Already been done. Remote-controlled subflight lifter? Already been done.

The only thing that it did new was the beam shield, hyper-deuterion nuclear reactor, and if the information is true, internal phase shift skeleton. All of which the Strike Freedom had and more, since it had the experimental Super DRAGOON control system and the Voiture Lumiere, which would've been way more expensive at the time than beam blades and grappling hooks.

Sure the Infinite Justice would've been expensive in its own right. But the Strike Freedom and Destiny would've been even more expensive.

[Znozzy]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

All of its equipment except for the Beam Shield, however, were already proven technology and for the most part standard. Beam sabers? Already been done. Mounted beam blades? Already been done. Beam boomerangs? Already been done. Grappling hook? Already been done. Remote-controlled subflight lifter? Already been done.

The only thing that it did new was the beam shield, hyper-deuterion nuclear reactor, and if the information is true, internal phase shift skeleton. All of which the Strike Freedom had and more, since it had the experimental Super DRAGOON control system and the Voiture Lumiere, which would've been way more expensive at the time than beam blades and grappling hooks.

Sure the Infinite Justice would've been expensive in its own right. But the Strike Freedom and Destiny would've been even more expensive.

Yeah, of course. But at the same time that's like saying there is no difference between a Apple II and a Imac because they are both computers.

I-Justice is a high technology & high spec mobile suit.

Grappling hook? Done, yeah. but not mounted in a shield.
Same can be said about the beam boomerang/Beam saber in the shield, it's been done before, but not to that extent.

Where was the mounted blades shown before? nevermind, lots of mobile suits have them, Aegis, Chaos, Gaia, etc.

And i dunno about the beam shield, but it seems like Xzibit had something to do with it.

The Super DRAGOON control system was pretty much standard by that time in Destiny, wasnt it? Both Legend and SF had it, one can argue Akatsuki had a version of it aswell. (if i recall correct)

I can't really see how the Destiny would be more expensive than the I-Justice either, nor the SF. If they get parts blown off they seem to be replaced before the next sortie either way, so maintenance costs seems to be nonexistant.

One can argue Destiny is the most expensive of them all, seeing how it's the only one that keeps taking damage.

[Rising Dragon]

Destiny would be more expensive because it also utilizes beam shields (of a higher number than the Infinite Justice) and the Hyper-Deuterion Nuclear Reactor, plus the wings of light that had been reverse-engineered from the Stargazer's Voiture Lumiere. Which also utilizes a Mirage Colloid particle system, which would've taken more money to develop and integrate. The Destiny also utilizes a new armor dividing system that is similar to, but different from, the one used by the Strike Freedom. The machine also had maintenance issues to be solved, as well as a complex component construction methods.

The Super DRAGOON control system has thus far only been utilized on four mobile suits: the Chaos, Providence ZAKU, the Legend, and the Strike Freedom. Apparently, the Akatsuki's bit weapon system is similar to the DRAGOON system but was developed independently and called the "Guided Mobile Beam Turret System", and it's possible that it has the same failings as the original DRAGOON system, in which you need high spatial awareness to properly operate, akin to the Mobius, Gunbarrel Striker, Dreadnaught, and Providence mobile weapons.

[Znozzy]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Destiny would be more expensive because it also utilizes beam shields (of a higher number than the Infinite Justice) and the Hyper-Deuterion Nuclear Reactor, plus the wings of light that had been reverse-engineered from the Stargazer's Voiture Lumiere. Which also utilizes a Mirage Colloid particle system, which would've taken more money to develop and integrate. The Destiny also utilizes a new armor dividing system that is similar to, but different from, the one used by the Strike Freedom. The machine also had maintenance issues to be solved, as well as a complex component construction methods.

See, we're never given a explanation for the reactor (how it differs from the IJ/SF's reactors) so i'll leave that blank, seeing how nuclear reactors where a norm in CE until Zaft bombed the earth with NJ's and sent it into a energy crisis.

Mirage colloid data was already in Zaft's hands after they got the Blitz data, but i'm quite sure developing it into the WoL effect we see in the Destiny cost quite a bit to research, but we never hear anything about production costs in Destiny or Seed at all. That's why i find this " it's more expensive " argument so hard to swallow.

That's the first i've heard of the " Armor dividing system ", care to provide a source for it?

Also, what maintenance issues did the Destiny have?

The only things Durandal mentions when he gives Destiny to Shinn is that it's made from his combat data, nothing else.

The Super DRAGOON control system has thus far only been utilized on four mobile suits: the Chaos, Providence ZAKU, the Legend, and the Strike Freedom. Apparently, the Akatsuki's bit weapon system is similar to the DRAGOON system but was developed independently and called the "Guided Mobile Beam Turret System", and it's possible that it has the same failings as the original DRAGOON system, in which you need high spatial awareness to properly operate, akin to the Mobius, Gunbarrel Striker, Dreadnaught, and Providence mobile weapons.

Seeing how the Akatsuki was developed for Cagalli and she hasnt shown any spatial-awareness flashes, i'd say it's safe to assume it follows the same principle as the DRAGOON system used in the Strike Freedom and the other mobile suits you mentioned above who share the same system..

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Znozzy

See, we're never given a explanation for the reactor (how it differs from the IJ/SF's reactors) so i'll leave that blank, seeing how nuclear reactors where a norm in CE until Zaft bombed the earth with NJ's and sent it into a energy crisis.

The HDNR essentially operates as thus: the deuterion converter functions like a battery, storing away excess energy from the nuclear reactor as deuterion pairs, which is funneled back into the nuclear reactor to continue its reaction.

(realistically this is a terrible reactor idea and incredibly inefficient but this is Gundam SEED we're talking about)

Originally Posted by Znozzy

Mirage colloid data was already in Zaft's hands after they got the Blitz data, but i'm quite sure developing it into the WoL effect we see in the Destiny cost quite a bit to research, but we never hear anything about production costs in Destiny or Seed at all. That's why i find this " it's more expensive " argument so hard to swallow.

Yeah, that's true, but when you consider just how expensive real-world military research is, and apply it to such advanced concepts as Voiture Lumiere's solar wind/energy capture, or Mirage Colloid's physics properties, I think we can all agree that it must be expensive as all hell. But that's the beauty of Coordinators and the PLANTs, they're basically around to do such research.

Originally Posted by Znozzy

That's the first i've heard of the " Armor dividing system ", care to provide a source for it?

Also, what maintenance issues did the Destiny have?

The source is from the MG Destiny Gundam's reference manual. Presumably, the maintenance issues had to deal with the aforementioned armor dividing system.

Originally Posted by Znozzy

The only things Durandal mentions when he gives Destiny to Shinn is that it's made from his combat data, nothing else.

Well, about that, it relates to the Armor Dividing system itself. The system in question works in conjunction with a sliding mechanism for the dividing armor panels. The internal frame is composed of smaller and flexible components which utilize armor panels that can separate into smaller portions, to allow the leg units to move through its full range of motion. The joints are constructed of the same materials found in Phase Shift armor, and as such when they are activated, it's possible to adjust the stiffness of the joints during motion. The reaction also produces a metallic glow when the joints are active.

End result is an increase in joint movement and mobility, at the cost of the vulnerability on exposed portions of the armor. And the vulnerability was partially addressed by mapping out the achievable ranges of motion through the use of Shinn's combat performance data to determine the most efficient way to separate the armor parts. That way the Destiny had sufficient defense without sacrificing any of its speed and agility.

Originally Posted by Znozzy

Seeing how the Akatsuki was developed for Cagalli and she hasnt shown any spatial-awareness flashes, i'd say it's safe to assume it follows the same principle as the DRAGOON system used in the Strike Freedom and the other mobile suits you mentioned above who share the same system..

True, but we don't know when it was decided to create the Shiranui pack that utilized said bit weaponry system. Also doesn't help that they handed it to Mu, given how he's qualified to operate the old DRAGOON system. It's never been confirmed one way or the other.

[Znozzy]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

The HDNR essentially operates as thus: the deuterion converter functions like a battery, storing away excess energy from the nuclear reactor as deuterion pairs, which is funneled back into the nuclear reactor to continue its reaction.

(realistically this is a terrible reactor idea and incredibly inefficient but this is Gundam SEED we're talking about)

no, this is Gundam SEED DESTINY (it's even worse. )

Yeah, that's true, but when you consider just how expensive real-world military research is, and apply it to such advanced concepts as Voiture Lumiere's solar wind/energy capture, or Mirage Colloid's physics properties, I think we can all agree that it must be expensive as all hell. But that's the beauty of Coordinators and the PLANTs, they're basically around to do such research.

Yeah, but you can't really apply costs to a show that never even mentions currency, lol

honestly, if i recall the only time we get to see them shop or mention currency is in SEED's desert arc and Destiny's episode where Lacus is shopping with Kira.

The source is from the MG Destiny Gundam's reference manual. Presumably, the maintenance issues had to deal with the aforementioned armor dividing system.

Gotcha, thanks.

Well, about that, it relates to the Armor Dividing system itself. The system in question works in conjunction with a sliding mechanism for the dividing armor panels. The internal frame is composed of smaller and flexible components which utilize armor panels that can separate into smaller portions, to allow the leg units to move through its full range of motion. The joints are constructed of the same materials found in Phase Shift armor, and as such when they are activated, it's possible to adjust the stiffness of the joints during motion. The reaction also produces a metallic glow when the joints are active.

End result is an increase in joint movement and mobility, at the cost of the vulnerability on exposed portions of the armor. And the vulnerability was partially addressed by mapping out the achievable ranges of motion through the use of Shinn's combat performance data to determine the most efficient way to separate the armor parts. That way the Destiny had sufficient defense without sacrificing any of its speed and agility.

So, basically it's sliding armor for Master Grade kits inside the actual show.

True, but we don't know when it was decided to create the Shiranui pack that utilized said bit weaponry system. Also doesn't help that they handed it to Mu, given how he's qualified to operate the old DRAGOON system. It's never been confirmed one way or the other.

Honestly, seeing how the Akatsuki was made for Cagalli, and she " entrusted it " to Mwu before they launched into space, i'm going to assume both backpacks where pre-made for Cagalli/The Akatsuki and Mwu simply switched to the DRAGOON pack because they are going to battle in space.


Sidenote: I really hope we get to see a dual-piloted Gundam/Mecha with remote weapons someday, with one pilot functioning as usual and the second pilot attacking with drones/funnels like a gunner in a jet.

[kaito-kid]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

The HDNR essentially operates as thus: the deuterion converter functions like a battery, storing away excess energy from the nuclear reactor as deuterion pairs, which is funneled back into the nuclear reactor to continue its reaction.

(realistically this is a terrible reactor idea and incredibly inefficient but this is Gundam SEED we're talking about)

How exactly did the first batch of those compact reactors work?
The freedom, Justice and providence never showed any problems managing all that energy from the reactor.
I always assumed that even the 1st generation nuclear powered mobile suits had a battery of some sort where all the energy from the rector was being stored.

Honestly, seeing how the Akatsuki was made for Cagalli, and she " entrusted it " to Mwu before they launched into space, i'm going to assume both backpacks where pre-made for Cagalli/The Akatsuki and Mwu simply switched to the DRAGOON pack because they are going to battle in space.

The fact that it was made for her doesn't necessarily mean it was made for her to pilot.

It's interesting that non of the pilots in Destiny using "super DRAGOON" actually needed the computer guided system since they were already Newtypes (Mu, Rau) or became a Newtype later on (Kira).