AnimeSuki Forums

Natsuki Hyuga · 2011-02-28, 05:15

Umm... That was not my point, by all means.

Oh well.

/offing Sidetracking and lurks back

magnuskn · 2011-02-28, 05:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tak

No thanks, last time I responded to her post it took about 3 hours, I won't commit the same mistake again, unless I want to risk being insane.

- Tak

Yeah, she has that special ability:

Maddening Cacophony (Su) As a free action, a BleachOD can give voice to sounds and words sane life was not meant to hear.

Egads, I am struck with a coughing malady and so my usual zeal in regards to smiting bad Ranka fan logic is at a low ebb. But I see you guys already did a splendid job of it.

On the topic of the detailed movie summary, many thanks Raile for finding it (and sorry that apparently I need to give out more cookies to give you another one

) , but so far it confirmed to me that the bittersweet ending came pretty abruptly, without much lead-up to it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

I just think that if Kawamori wanted to do something special for his 25th Macross anniversary, it would be to change his ways and choose the GIRL for once instead of the woman. And he didn't. So, to me, I'm done with any series regarding his works.

Yeah, let's ignore stuff like the internal storytelling of the series and how the plot was definitely moving in a direction which left Ranka without a chance. Because, hey, who ends up with the male protagonist in this triangle should have been determined by how childish that person was.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thess

Macross Plus is groundbreaking, Macross Frontier is not.

True. It was, however, a really solidly told story. Ignoring the non-resolution at the end.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thess

Well, according to Yot-chan if IIRC (do rectify me), Kawamori had other plans for episode 25 (including resolving the triangle), but ultimately let him do that (Yoshino thought Alto was too dense and lacked self awareness to decide?). While movie wise is different. This is what I mean mostly...

If that is true, I might have maligned the wrong person all along.

Although it seems the two of them share the blame.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Back to the target, there is NO ONE rich in Japan except the major! This being said, every bit of money that Kawamori gets, he has to pay the studio first, then his helpers, and finally his bills. What's left over? Not much when you consider yen and USA dollars. Like I said, Japan is a high rated, underpaid country. It's part of the reason why I'd prefer to live HERE in the USA.

Ah, jingoism. It never gets old.

Thess · 2011-02-28, 05:25

Spoiler for off topic+spoiler:

I propose to move this to romance thread, though.

moncikoma · 2011-02-28, 05:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

And again... he didn't.

Which is why I'm done with Macross altogether.

are you sure? so u wont watch the 2nd movie?

aww such a shamee

magnuskn · 2011-02-28, 05:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thess

I propose to move this to romance thread, though.

Yep, discussion moved.

magnuskn · 2011-02-28, 05:51

Spoiler for these are spoilers...:

Spoiler for still spoilers...:

moncikoma · 2011-02-28, 06:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Honestly, when you get wrapped up in one couple and then are shot down, don't you figure you'd be in my place right now? Just to ask that towards those of you saying I'm ranting out.

i feel u bro...if alto choose pikachu...i would hate it and all..
but it doesnt stop me from watching other macross...

thank god i love the franchise...all of it...
i may not watching macross anymore if there is no music, romance, and no mecha...that is not macross

so who x who is not really that important to make me stop watching....
even if sheryl dead horriblely i would still love the franchise...it just an entertaiment.. nothing more..

but

Spoiler for thanks god..:

Westlo · 2011-02-28, 06:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

@Everyone!
Overall, Kawamori DID choose the fan preferred over the latter. That, to me, shows that he's afraid of what people will think or do when they see he's chosen a girl they disliked (or didn't truly pick). A writer who is afraid to change his ways in the sense of ending the triangle shows that he's not truly a GOOD writer.

On the form of references: I meant to change his ways and shock the fans. Considering how SDF and DYRL ended, I thought he might do it different this time around and startle people into seeing that he CAN choose a non-fan favorite

He already did that, twice, with Macross and Macross Do You Remember Love.

Polls from Macross Ace #006:

Female Characters
1. Sheryl Nome
2. Lynn Minmay
3. Ranka Lee
4. Misa Hayase

+ Newtype fav of the decade polls

Female characters in 1980's

*1, Nausicaa
*2, Lum
*3, Lynn Minmay
13, Hayase Misa

http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topici...w=0#msg7268174

Minmay was easily the more popular character... Such a pity you signed up to gloat but instead you've found yourself just whining.

moncikoma · 2011-02-28, 06:45

i thought so too..minmay is more popular..

wisteria233 · 2011-02-28, 08:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Minmay became popular because she was the singer. In a fight between TWO singers, one being younger than the other, he should've shown that same support like he did with Misa then.

Seriously, that's a little... "let your character be created then kick her ass" in a way. That's why it didn't appear to me that he loved Ranka, given how he put her in the end of both (TV series & movies), alone.

Actually considering the current tastes of anime fans are now a days, it was pretty much a safe bet that Ranka should have been more popular. Emphasis on should. Also the marketing for the series was heavily geared towards Ranka at the beginning of the series indicating that he expected her to become the fan favorite. One cannot say whether or not the older or younger character will be more popular it really depends on the series. Also the awful truth of today is that Moe characters like Ranka tend to be more popular, than characters like Sheryl.

Westlo · 2011-02-28, 08:17

lol @ going from "No fan favorite lost" to "Well even though she lost, she was the singer so of course she was the fan favorite!

Quote:

Originally Posted by wisteria233

Actually considering the current tastes of anime fans are now a days, it was pretty much a safe bet that Ranka should have been more popular. Emphasis on should. Also the marketing for the series was heavily geared towards Ranka at the beginning of the series indicating that he expected her to become the fan favorite. One cannot say whether or not the older or younger character will be more popular it really depends on the series. Also the awful truth of today is that Moe characters like Ranka tend to be more popular, than characters like Sheryl.

Yeah I bet they thought she would take SaiMoe and all the moe fans by storm, bad failure in that regard. Lucky Sheryl was around to save them!

wisteria233 · 2011-02-28, 08:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Westlo

lol @ going from "No fan favorite lost" to "Well even though she lost, she was the singer so of course she was the fan favorite!

Yeah I bet they thought she would take SaiMoe and all the moe fans by storm, bad failure in that regard. Lucky Sheryl was around to save them!

Yeah I mean going by promotional material Ranka was the first character you were most likely to see.

I mean stop to think about her characteristics for one second, all of them were designed to appeal to modern day anime fans.

moving hair? Check.
green hair? Check.
looks younger than she actually is? Check.
acts younger than she actually is? Check. (tv series only)
is cute? Check.
gives off the little sister vibes? Check.
is always in need of saving? Check.
Is a pettanko? Check.
has a cute mascot? check
domesticated?Check.
is a singer? Check and mate.

wisteria233 · 2011-02-28, 08:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Hm... so I'm right about the interview Kawamori had where he expressed Ranka WAS the main character. He said she was the main character and Alto was the following lead. Then, when the series started airing (this was after Deculture Ep1), Alto was the main followed by Ranka, and then Sheryl just pushed her out of the circle altogether.

I think the reason Ranka's character kinda falls apart is that Kawamori gave up his moral on her character build in the second half and especially towards the end. Seeing how fans accepted her badly, he just couldn't bring himself to change her. She inspired younger girls to move forward and try to get their boys. But also, the script for Ep21 and onward, when looked at, was really a screw up. I think Kawamori was TRYING (hence the emphasis) to create a more indepth ending. But he couldn't figure out what to do. So he tore apart Alto and Ranka and then tried to put Sheryl in the spotlight like "what will you do next to amaze your fans?"

After Ep18, I kinda saw that one coming. It was meant to build Sheryl's character more. But at that point, Kawamori had already given up on building Ranka's character because no one seemed to notice her anymore. This is proven alone by how Sheryl reacts to Ranka in Ep17, seeing her blatantly as an enemy and then dethroning her at the same time, not treating her like a friend until her illness kicks in. You can immediately see that Kawamori starts to push Ranka into the "feeling disconnected" stage. This is kinda normal for a girl whose parents work all day/night with no siblings. So, we had the famous "goodbye/confession" scene.

Kawamori, at a certain point, just didn't want to try anymore with Ranka, as I said. Her ship (the popularity and whatnot) had sailed only in Ep1. It made me sad that he would just let a character fall like that. After all, he should love his characters equally. But Ranka's character as a whole is based on the creator's choices (she is not human) and Kawamori literally killed her in the triangle by not letting her change.

ONE stem of growth she DID make: the confession.
If it was Ranka from Ep1, the bashful girl who didn't know better, she wouldn't have done that.

Well, the older LOOKING character won this time. Which is quite depressing, honestly. I personally would like to see the younger character win for once. It would be nice to see a younger looking character win the triangle. Truly, the movie!Ranka had more chance of winning than the TV!Ranka. So, when it comes to triangles and how Kawamori resolves them... given how he made the series and then the movies, I don't get his logic when he built such AruRan in the movies and then let it die. Nor the AruSherri from the series and then both were friendzoned. Partly, that's what makes me dislike Macross so much. Though I do love Mecha! XD

Well not really because tv series Ranka never really fought for Alto's affection. In fact she never really tried to get to know him better until episode 21. That and she had to be pushed by her friends to make the first move (Nanase had to to tell her to step up her game in episode 11). And even then Alto wasn't interested in her like that, and had to be forced to spend time with her. Ranka also never spent much time with Alto at all over the course of the series, it wasn't just episode 18 it was long before then too. It was to the point that the only times we saw Sheryl she was either with Alto or on stage. Also the episodes were made long before their actual airing.

Also both Sheryl and Alto are one year older than Ranka.

Also this is probably Kawamori's logic. "if you have been friends for a long time and yet he hasn't noticed you even though you like him, then he probably doesn't think of you in the romantic sense." or alternatively "if a guy knows a girl he that the girl he likes likes him back, and yet chooses to ignore it then, he doesn't really like her like that." Even with the scenes with Alto and Rank in the first movie could be taken as just friendship from Alto's side.

Winchester · 2011-02-28, 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Spoiler for words regarding that.:

Having just watched the first four episodes, I'll have to tell you that this is bunk. In the first three episodes, we get Ranka's first Vajra flashback, the Vajra singling her out for the first time, Vajra reacting to her (and only her) screaming, Vajra reacting to her (and Sheryl) singing, and Ozma explaining how her family got killed. And I don't remember for sure, but I think the first instance of Ranka getting stomach pains on screen when Vajra were killed was also either during the second or third episodes.

Now if someone could name a similar amount of hints that Sheryl was sick before we're hit with it in episode 13... because that was what came out of left field for me.

SP

moncikoma · 2011-02-28, 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by wisteria233

all of them were designed to appeal to modern day anime fans.

moving hair? Check.
green hair? Check.
looks younger than she actually is? Check.
acts younger than she actually is? Check. (tv series only)
is cute? Check.
gives off the little sister vibes? Check.
is always in need of saving? Check.
Is a pettanko? Check.
has a cute mascot? check
domesticated?Check.
is a singer? Check and mate.

but...

Spoiler for ...:

BetoJR · 2011-02-28, 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

I still plan to watch the 2nd movie, yes. But as for other series of Macross that Kawamori creates, I'll never watch them.

It would probably be for the best, mate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

I was against watching Macross Frontier at first, as my first was Macross II (which, if memory serves, Kawamori did not do, but it had the same ending, choosing a fan favorite).

What lunacy is this? A 6-episode OVA doesn't really have the time to develop reactions to fan-favorites that would actually alter the plot in any significant way, even more back in 1992. What do you eat, man?

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Then I watched DYRL, and I liked Minmei, and he chose a fan favorite still (Misa).

ARE YOU COMPLETELY CRAZY?!?!? Mynmay is the most recognizable and famous and loved character of the entire franchise!!! How you go about stating she somehow lost in popularity to Misa is absolutely bonkers! You, sir, have no idea what you're talking about.

Also, what's all this about the younger girl losing to a woman? Sheryl, Ranka and Alto are supposed to be roughly the same age. A difference, if so much, of a couple of years! You're grasping at straws, man!

You really should leave Macross' series a rest, I think. They do not seem to agree with you.

BaKaBaKaOtaKu · 2011-02-28, 09:52

Spoiler:

i agree ranka SHOULD have been the favorite,but FORTUNATELY, for me,her moe appearance didn't sell..GO SHERYL!!xD

triangler_fans1 · 2011-02-28, 09:55

I love Minmay so much!

wisteria233 · 2011-02-28, 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Alto was not actually forced ALL the time. He went to Miss Macross for her. He aspired her dream. He supported her as best he could. He was with Sheryl on stage because he was a pilot (so sadly that doesn't count). And he raced to RANKA'S side in Ep21 when she called him. If that doesn't prove his affection for her enough, perhaps the fact Sheryl had to STEAL Alto's phone number and Alto GAVE Ranka his phone number. That kinda proved he held affection for Ranka but it wore off like Minmey.

Alto called going to cheer her on in Miss Macross a duty. The reason why he went to see her in episode 21 was because again she called to him and she's his friend who he didn't see after Nanase Ranka's best friend got admitted to the hospital and fell into coma he was legitimately worried about her, it was of no detriment to himself. Since when can't friends worry about each other? Your views are really skewed.

Quote:

Whether he held that affection for her and let it grow, I think that was on his drive to save Ranka in Ep25. Which, honestly, despite what you say about Sheryl changing his mind, was quite STRONG. I mean, he uses the earring to see WHERE Ranka is and then understands what she wanted all along, what her purpose of leaving was. So it was necessarily Sheryl's words that made him want to save her. He still had FAITH in her. That is something very strong, I say.

Didn't Sheryl ask Alto to save Ranka in episode 25, when before Alto had vowed to kill her. Also if Sheryl never gave Alto her fold quartz earring Alto would not have been able to save her, because he wouldn't have known that she wasn't herself. It didn't have anything to do with Alto's trust for Ranka. Way to ignore the events.

Quote:

But yes, Kawamori let her character fall, even if he didn't intend to. But then, we have to remember, it was Kawamori's vision (as you all like to point out). We could spend forever trying to read his mind.
All I can say is at Bleach Board, I managed to someone get correct quite a few scenes of the movie:
Alto got Michael's death scene, Ranka got Sheryl's kiss scene (Ep25), Sheryl got Ranka's goodbye scene, and Alto got Brera's hug with Ranka.
That was... kinda creepy how I just ended up right. I wonder if a part of me read Kawamori's mind.

First of all we haven't seen the second movie yet so there is no way to know that Ranka got kiss Alto, I've only heard that they hug, and even then that's more reminiscent of DYRL. When Hikaru hugged Minmei after he said he loved Misa.

Quote:

PS: When I refer to the goodbye scene, I mean Sheryl leaving Alto behind while crying. This was the known goodbye scene due to the tears Ranka shed when she gave up her being on the Frontier.

Ranka's tears were due to realizing that Alto didn't feel the same way about her.

I'm with the others it seems as though you came into Macross expecting something that Macross is not.

deadite · 2011-02-28, 10:10

No problems here. I was only invested in Ranka as a character not with her pairing with Alto. Seeing Ranka step up are great moments for me.

View Poll Results: Macross Frontier: Sayonara no Tsubasa Movie Rating
Perfect 10	40	42.11%
9 out of 10 : Excellent	33	34.74%
8 out of 10 : Very Good	12	12.63%
7 out of 10 : Good	5	5.26%
6 out of 10 : Average	3	3.16%
5 out of 10 : Below Average	2	2.11%
4 out of 10 : Poor	0	0%
3 out of 10 : Bad	0	0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad	0	0%
1 out of 10 : Painful	0	0%
Voters: 95. You may not vote on this poll

2011-02-28, 09:52	Link #1297
BaKaBaKaOtaKu Stupidity is Bliss. Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: In Hancock's Heart	Spoiler: LOL i guess someone should've not watched MF if he'd just go around bashing kawamori just bec. he didn't choose the youngergirl. XD and uber LOL. misa? fan-preferred? LOL. you gotta be kidding me.xDD minmay was gazillion more popular than her.. that only means kawamori isn't always choosing the fan-favorite one XD i agree ranka SHOULD have been the favorite,but FORTUNATELY, for me,her moe appearance didn't sell..GO SHERYL!!xD __________________ Faberry Quinn and Rachel

2011-02-28, 06:45	Link #1289
moncikoma Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010	i thought so too..minmay is more popular..

2011-02-28, 09:55	Link #1298
triangler_fans1 MAMEGU fan Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: South America Age: 35	I love Minmay so much!

2011-02-28, 10:10	Link #1300
deadite Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2010	No problems here. I was only invested in Ranka as a character not with her pairing with Alto. Seeing Ranka step up are great moments for me.