Raw Providers and Reading Sites Issues

[Ryuujin]

Originally Posted by Xagzan

From that article: "According to Kelts' article, the editor said that "[b]efore, it was mostly non-Japanese kids posting and translating manga. But the kids in Japan caught on, and now all kinds of manga are available for free as soon as they hit the shelves [in Japan].""

What an idiot. It's called the internet. The Japanese kids would've figured it out for themselves sooner or later.

Because there's no way Japanese people were the ones scanning Japanese media and putting it on the Internet

[Aethos]

Well it's been a few weeks since that announcement, and I've had time to cool off and properly think about things instead of resorting to nerd rage. I suppose I can see the point of wanting to stop free online readers, but even so that means even more that they should at least try to create a great online reader that you may have to pay for, but will satisfy the needs of those who enjoy reading their favorite series online.

This way everyone is happy. After all we already got ebooks. Why not emangas?

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Aethos

This way everyone is happy. After all we already got ebooks. Why not emangas?

There are already a few sites up or in development (both Japanese and English - the most recent and controversial (?) one being OpenManga.org). But I'm not sure yet that they'll be able to provide the most popular series (i.e. Naruto, Bleach, One Piece etc).

But given how so many people have already turned to free scanlations, why have the publishing companies taken so long to catch on? What are the issues that have been preventing publishers from using such a well established precedent?

I think that one of the main problems has been that, setting up a site and system that is profitable, and ensure that some revenue goes back to the relevant artists, is more difficult and expensive than most fans seems to think.

(1) There are many publishers who'd probably prefer to have control over their products, so you'd need a platform provider they can trust.

(2) The actual magazines themselves are losing money, even with the advertising revenue (from toymakers, aniplext etc). A relative of mine who works in the fashion publishing industry notes that advertisers won't be willing to pay the same amount if their magazines are taken online = even potentially greater loss of revenue. I can't imagine it being much different for manga magazines.

(3) And because there are some people who'll keep buying the magazines, they can't just stop producing them, so the work involved in taking material online represents an additional cost that they may not be able to recover in revenue, especially once you consider that people are generally not willing to pay as much for online content. (though I'm personally getting to the stage where I might be willing to pay more, just for the mobility!)

Not to mention that there might be restrictions on content since they are available on the international stage. I remember being really surprised to find out that one volume of Flame of Recca (the Japanese release) was banned in Singapore, until I finally obtained it and found out why...

Another issue is different payment methods. In Japan, I expect that most people will be accessing via their mobile and paying through their mobile phone bill, whereas most of the West will be paying by credit cards or some kind of online service. Very few sites in Japan (amazon is one exception) accept western credit cards, so again, a middle man ready to make all the arrangements was needed. (I guess we have one now, with the people of OpenManga.)

etc etc
I don't know that much about the industry myself, but the more I think about it, the more I'm willing to support something like OpenManga (if they do it right, it sounds quite promising), especially if the artists themselves are getting behind it. The scanlation community has generally been doing something for free anyway (or for fame/respect etc), so why not do it in a way that will benefit the original artists instead of complaining about not being compensated themselves?

[Aethos]

Not to mention that if we should be forced to buy the English translations then why not have a huge online database to pay and read instead of having to clutter up closet space with tons of books you'll hardly ever read after the first time?

I can understand it's difficult, and honestly with the kinds of problems MF and Mangatoshokan had in regards to ads I can totally understand them being hesitant, but then why set it up as having to go one page at a time? I've seen a few manga scan sites that utilize a streaming feature, which would definitely cut down on bandwidth issues, and ad costs.

[AnimeFan188]

"Shuho Sato, the creator of the Say Hello to Black Jack (pictured below), Umizaru,
and The Isle of TOKKOU manga, addressed the issue of unauthorized uploads of
manga in a series of Twitter posts between Thursday, September 16 and Sunday,
September 18. Sato had just posted the entire first chapter of his Umizaru manga
on YouTube last Tuesday to promote the Saturday opening of the live-action film The
Last Message: Umizaru. His Manga on Web site also announced on Wednesday that
the rest of the 119-chapter manga is free for online reading for one month."

See:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/inte...uploaded-manga

[Xagzan]

Well, that's an infinitely more constructive opinion than Hiroe's "I hope they get pancreatic cancer and die." What a douche.

[AnimeFan188]

"The bill would allow the Attorney General to pursue restraining orders, preliminary
injunctions, and injunctions against websites that have "no demonstrable,
commercially significant purpose or use other than" copyright-infringing activities.
The bill would also allow these actions to be pursued against such websites in rem
— meaning that the website itself can be treated as the defendant rather than its
owner. This would also allow the government to pursue sites whose owners may
not be within the United States' jurisdiction, if the site knowingly provides infringing
content within the United States."

See:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...-in-u.s-senate

[Nvis]

Originally Posted by Lummie

• Heiji-sama said that Kodansha is planning on targeting Mangafox.
• Shueisha is planning to do something big in the summer against piracy.

So yeah, we can expect some good times...

So what have they done now? It's already Fall....

[surerman]

Originally Posted by Nvis

So what have they done now? It's already Fall....

may be they come to some understanding each other?

or the alliance already realize, they can't win the battle and start to retreat

or ....

Spoiler for this is just speculation:

.. may be some hitman friend of mine took the job?

anyhow we glad that mangafox still breathing today and (I hope) till the end of time but the problem is scanlator become not so active released their work anymore, even Charkan-sama and Masked Ilama Production scan group didn't release any Raws or scans in this year's 3rd quarter (I miss their high quality scans)

could it be they've been arrested?

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by AnimeFan188

"The bill would allow the Attorney General to pursue restraining orders, preliminary
injunctions, and injunctions against websites that have "no demonstrable,
commercially significant purpose or use other than" copyright-infringing activities.
The bill would also allow these actions to be pursued against such websites in rem
— meaning that the website itself can be treated as the defendant rather than its
owner. This would also allow the government to pursue sites whose owners may
not be within the United States' jurisdiction, if the site knowingly provides infringing
content within the United States."

See:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...-in-u.s-senate

The COICA bill was tabled as the Congress went home for the mid-term elections. Now is a good time to work with the EFF and the ACLU to "remind them" that anti-consumer bills masquerading this way will not endear them to their voters. This bill is so broad that it puts many hobby sites at risk and pushes the untenable idea that people who aren't making any money at their hobby or are fans of something are somehow 'criminals'.

Days like this are better days to be in Germany or somewhere where consumers aren't simply corporate-monetary-extraction units.

[DragoZERO]

I love how this things are vague enough for the old white guys who know nothing about whichever fan site will come across there desk can incorrectly make a judgment.

And why do they have to waste our money and their time suing the site owners? Making them take down the site is all they have to do.

[Xagzan]

If this is Congress, I doubt manga sites are the first ones they'll be looking at. It's still far easier to pirate movies and music, and ones actually made in America. I doubt they have a great awareness of a foreign import that attracts a relatively much smaller audience. They're not exactly the most up-to-date folks.

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by Xagzan

If this is Congress, I doubt manga sites are the first ones they'll be looking at. It's still far easier to pirate movies and music, and ones actually made in America. I doubt they have a great awareness of a foreign import that attracts a relatively much smaller audience. They're not exactly the most up-to-date folks.

Oh, I know. There is probably lobbying by Hollywood so they can put an end to pirated movies and all.

[Vexx]

To the person that didn't actually want to discuss but simply drop their neg and run:

You can be "not making money" and still cost the legit owners money.

There is no 1:1 correlation between "lost sales" and downloads. Never was and never will be, even "legit owners" admit it when properly pressed. Often the owner is not even the actual creator but the functional equivalent of a patent troll, fleecing the creator (ref: movie studios who produce movies that "didn't make money" when it is time to pay the creators their percentage). The arts have historically thrived on the "patron and peanut gallery" model. The corporations are trying to force-fit the arts into their traditional product revenue models. The 1:1 notion (which is joined with the nirvana idea of "pay per use") simply annoys the patron class (like me) who happily pay for the good stuff.

In related news, the Mexican Senate has voted unanimously to withdraw from ACTA (joining the EU and a few other countries in a general WTF reaction to ACTA and its siblings).
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...otations.shtml

[spacewolfie82]

Originally Posted by AnimeFan188

"The bill would allow the Attorney General to pursue restraining orders, preliminary
injunctions, and injunctions against websites that have "no demonstrable,
commercially significant purpose or use other than" copyright-infringing activities.
The bill would also allow these actions to be pursued against such websites in rem
— meaning that the website itself can be treated as the defendant rather than its
owner. This would also allow the government to pursue sites whose owners may
not be within the United States' jurisdiction, if the site knowingly provides infringing
content within the United States."

See:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...-in-u.s-senate

Originally Posted by Vexx

The COICA bill was tabled as the Congress went home for the mid-term elections. Now is a good time to work with the EFF and the ACLU to "remind them" that anti-consumer bills masquerading this way will not endear them to their voters. This bill is so broad that it puts many hobby sites at risk and pushes the untenable idea that people who aren't making any money at their hobby or are fans of something are somehow 'criminals'.

Days like this are better days to be in Germany or somewhere where consumers aren't simply corporate-monetary-extraction units.

The problem with this law is it declares US law as worldwide sovereign, meaning, if some site in N. Korea decides to host "Licensed Content" it is subject to being "attacked" by the government. Basically, the US is "Declaring War" on "Copyright Pirates" (see where this is going?) It's another way for Corporate America (the true owners of the USA) to "flex" their militaristic "muscles". Trust me, you think Iran, China, and North Korea are taking this lying down? America just called the dogs of war!!! The US is now known for starting wars against figurative enemies, this is just an excuse to "attack" countries they don't like. I live in the US, and I'm appalled at how we have decided to treat the world. But it's not ALL Americans, some of us are fighting to get our government back from the banks that bought our country out from under us. I recently joined the fight to reveal the liars in our government, the ones that want to attack other countries in the name of "Copyright Infringement" or "Protecting 2d people's rights".

On the subject of 2D people...

I was a computer tech, who got fired after replacing a hard drive in someone's computer. I ran a program, required by my job, that scans any data that is "rescued" from a hard drive for Keywords that suspect Pedophilia, Bestiality, Incest, anything considered illegal by the US government, and known makers of such, and, if found, I'm supposed to review the files, and report to the local authorities. I scanned the data from the old hard drive to the new one, and my program went crazy, I reviewed the files, they were all Manga!!! Thinking it was a Glitch, I went ahead and cleared it to go, thinking it fine, come to find out, it was used as a data storage server for Lolicon, Shotacon, and such. I am strictly an Anime and Manga fan, sure I knew about Hentai, but Lolicon I did not know about. My Boss' boss decides to check my work, and, seeing the log file of flags on my transfer computer, decided to take a look herself. She had just got a memo three days before, to warn us techs that our program was updated, and it now flags manga's as well, and to teach us immediately about the new law that illegalized it, and what to look for. Needless to say, she got a eyeful, and called the police. They arrived with F.B.I. in tow not long after. They confiscated everything involved, including MY WORKSTATION!!! Two days later, Mr FBI Suit walks in, questions everyone, grills me, accuses me of looking at it myself (everbody called me Mr. Otakon there, to my chagrin) and then talks with the supervisor above the one that did the checking. Two hours later, everyone in my shop section, my boss, and his boss were suspended without pay for 1 week, and I was fired! For What? Being an Anime Fan! The reasoning given by the head boss was "My personal life had become a company liability" meaning that, because I liked Manga, I let it pass through. I.......was..........enraged!! Even though it's been 4 years, I'm still angry. I had to move out of town, couldn't get a job there, because gossip spread like wildfire. So, I did some "investigating" on my own, and I'm appalled. There is a well known Child Pornographer, that we run into in the computer industry, that used Limewire and Frostwire, has never been caught, even though he has a personal signature!!! Yet we spent TAX money on RIGHTS TO CARTOON CHILDREN?!? Come On!! And the law is so loose, it practically banned anything with transforming magical girls (my sister wondered what happened to Sailor Moon's last season, it was hard explaining why it was illegal), or any type of scene involving even partially nude females "looking" under the age of 18!

Now, I'm in school studying Psych., and I did a little research recently, and the evidence I got was startling, it seems they have done A LOT of research into Lolicon, and it's effects, and it is REVERSE of what My government wants people to believe! For instance, Japan is the largest distributor of Lolicon, yet, they have the LOWEST per capita Child-sex crime rate! and, when I dug farther, there was strong evidence Lolicon could be used to curb low-to-mid range pedophilia, because, unlike rape, most Pedo's don't do it for power, they do it because they are attracted to them, it's a type of delusion psychosis no different from Schizophrenia. I'm not saying you don't have the ones with a power trip, like the ones that kill their victims, but they are just as likely to rape a 35 year old woman as they are a 8 year old child, there is a significant difference between a Pedo and a "Child Rapist". Lolicon can also act as a type of "substitution" , sort of like Methidone is used to get Meth addicts to quit, and, with proper medication, and maybe even Hormone therapy, a Pedo can live his life like a "normal" mentally ill person, without any type of "substitution" and, even if it's too severe, the "substitution" would still work. To give an example, (I know this is horrible) Michael Jackson's view on "having little boys sleep in the same bed" is why he was targeted as one, it was the psychology behind what he said, not concrete evidence, that was more convicting than all the evidence brought to trial, because, it is what a "true" Pedo would think, not "Imma rape me a kid, and then kill 'em", That's how "normal" people think they think, just like they think Schizophrenics think "Imma go kill me some random people" or that Mentally Retarded people think "Durrrr", and frankly, it's wrong, and very insulting. It's no different than a racist stereotype, and it makes me sick. You won't stop Child Rape by banning Lolicon, you won't even be able to catch them before they strike, you just end up discovering more Mentally Ill people in the form of Pedo's, going out to get their "fix" and the only ones who end up suffering are the children, and computer techs because now they gotta spend 10x more effort trying to find evidence for a 2D, fictitious plaintiff. I know I'm gonna get a ton of hate PM for saying this, but it had to be said.

[Shinji103]

I, for one, feel your pain.

Not that any of that crap that happened to you happened to me mind you, but I've seen plenty of screwed up stuff out that to know that many things in our country are f***-ed up. Pardon my French.

I mean, the FBI?! Over manga?! Even if you don't understand any difference between manga and cartoons, anybody with a sliver of mental ability can see that manga is not quite real people. The fact that they called the FBI in for drawn/animated 2D characters shows that their priorities are in the wrong place.

Seriously, why don't those idiots grow brains and try to help real victims? It's probably been said a thousand times on a million different forums protesting the idiocy of our government on this topic, but that doesn't make it any less true.

Although I'm not sure this is quite on topic of this thread (since the thread is more about "outlawing" manga availability on the Internet than loli/shota manga collected by people in the US), so we should probably leave it at that.

[DragoZERO]

It's interesting that the program that company uses includes manga in it's scan now. I guess many companies are following suit in this regard.

Sorry about your job too. Sometimes working for larger companies can screw you over, lol.

[Miles Teg]

37 Japanese Publishers to Launch N. American Manga Portal

37 Japanese publishers are collaborating to set up a joint portal site for North American anime fans this year. The tentatively named J Manga Portal Site will digitally distribute manga whose rights are held by each of the companies.[...]

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...n-manga-portal

[Xagzan]

I'm a little concerned with update 3 there, specifically the word "periodically." If by periodically they mean just as slow release dates as there already are in overseas manga, then there's still going to be a big problem.

[Heiwatsuki]

Well it's been a few weeks since that announcement, and I've had time to cool off and properly think about things instead of resorting to nerd rage. I suppose I can see the point of wanting to stop free online readers, but even so that means even more that they should at least try to create a great online reader that you may have to pay for, but will satisfy the needs of those who enjoy reading their favorite series online.

This way everyone is happy. After all we already got ebooks. Why not emangas?

Ah, i remember the time when i first heard about the revolt against illegal online scans and onemanga closing down. I was in such a nerd rage. lmfao. though ive calmed down. i still feel resentment and fear. I really do hope that all manga and anime online does not get shut down. hope one day people will work out a system that satisfies both the illegal manga/anime readers/watchers and the people publishing the media.

On the subject of 2D people...

I was a computer tech, who got fired after replacing a hard drive in someone's computer. I ran a program, required by my job, that scans any data that is "rescued" from a hard drive for Keywords that suspect Pedophilia, Bestiality, Incest, anything considered illegal by the US government, and known makers of such, and, if found, I'm supposed to review the files, and report to the local authorities. I scanned the data from the old hard drive to the new one, and my program went crazy, I reviewed the files, they were all Manga!!! Thinking it was a Glitch, I went ahead and cleared it to go, thinking it fine, come to find out, it was used as a data storage server for Lolicon, Shotacon, and such. I am strictly an Anime and Manga fan, sure I knew about Hentai, but Lolicon I did not know about. My Boss' boss decides to check my work, and, seeing the log file of flags on my transfer computer, decided to take a look herself. She had just got a memo three days before, to warn us techs that our program was updated, and it now flags manga's as well, and to teach us immediately about the new law that illegalized it, and what to look for. Needless to say, she got a eyeful, and called the police. They arrived with F.B.I. in tow not long after. They confiscated everything involved, including MY WORKSTATION!!! Two days later, Mr FBI Suit walks in, questions everyone, grills me, accuses me of looking at it myself (everbody called me Mr. Otakon there, to my chagrin) and then talks with the supervisor above the one that did the checking. Two hours later, everyone in my shop section, my boss, and his boss were suspended without pay for 1 week, and I was fired! For What? Being an Anime Fan! The reasoning given by the head boss was "My personal life had become a company liability" meaning that, because I liked Manga, I let it pass through. I.......was..........enraged!! Even though it's been 4 years, I'm still angry. I had to move out of town, couldn't get a job there, because gossip spread like wildfire. So, I did some "investigating" on my own, and I'm appalled. There is a well known Child Pornographer, that we run into in the computer industry, that used Limewire and Frostwire, has never been caught, even though he has a personal signature!!! Yet we spent TAX money on RIGHTS TO CARTOON CHILDREN?!? Come On!! And the law is so loose, it practically banned anything with transforming magical girls (my sister wondered what happened to Sailor Moon's last season, it was hard explaining why it was illegal), or any type of scene involving even partially nude females "looking" under the age of 18!

Now, I'm in school studying Psych., and I did a little research recently, and the evidence I got was startling, it seems they have done A LOT of research into Lolicon, and it's effects, and it is REVERSE of what My government wants people to believe! For instance, Japan is the largest distributor of Lolicon, yet, they have the LOWEST per capita Child-sex crime rate! and, when I dug farther, there was strong evidence Lolicon could be used to curb low-to-mid range pedophilia, because, unlike rape, most Pedo's don't do it for power, they do it because they are attracted to them, it's a type of delusion psychosis no different from Schizophrenia. I'm not saying you don't have the ones with a power trip, like the ones that kill their victims, but they are just as likely to rape a 35 year old woman as they are a 8 year old child, there is a significant difference between a Pedo and a "Child Rapist". Lolicon can also act as a type of "substitution" , sort of like Methidone is used to get Meth addicts to quit, and, with proper medication, and maybe even Hormone therapy, a Pedo can live his life like a "normal" mentally ill person, without any type of "substitution" and, even if it's too severe, the "substitution" would still work. To give an example, (I know this is horrible) Michael Jackson's view on "having little boys sleep in the same bed" is why he was targeted as one, it was the psychology behind what he said, not concrete evidence, that was more convicting than all the evidence brought to trial, because, it is what a "true" Pedo would think, not "Imma rape me a kid, and then kill 'em", That's how "normal" people think they think, just like they think Schizophrenics think "Imma go kill me some random people" or that Mentally Retarded people think "Durrrr", and frankly, it's wrong, and very insulting. It's no different than a racist stereotype, and it makes me sick. You won't stop Child Rape by banning Lolicon, you won't even be able to catch them before they strike, you just end up discovering more Mentally Ill people in the form of Pedo's, going out to get their "fix" and the only ones who end up suffering are the children, and computer techs because now they gotta spend 10x more effort trying to find evidence for a 2D, fictitious plaintiff. I know I'm gonna get a ton of hate PM for saying this, but it had to be said.

wow dude, thats a really horrible experience. Its sad the goverment is more after 2d animations rather than focusing on other problems like terrorism. and FBI? really? thats just wrong. And they really are strict about the law on no media that shows girls partially nude under the age of 18 huh. If that kind of law was in japan, anime fans across the nation would probably be in a united strike against the goverment. considering that almost all anime has atleast one girl that looks like a child, and shows a scene with her partially nude( whether shes in the furo or in revealing cloths ).

i did once hear in a thread about how someone in japan was trying to pass a law that bans all media that shows girls that look under the age of 18 if they are partially nude. And good thing the goverment denied that. If they approved... CHAOS, AND IT WOULD ARMAGEDDON(exaggerating, and a joke).

Note to goverment or whatever...: LEAVE ANIME AND MANGA ALONE FOR GODS SAKE. LET THE OTAKUS HAVE THEIR PEACE.
and of course... this is just wishful thinking... sigh... though i think the sales of manga and anime would be better if the economy improves. Right now, im barley getting through. and the fact that my mom is supporting me and my two siblings all by herself doesnt make it any better.. :/