2010-11-01, 18:03 | Link #18282 |
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Whoever's writing this story clearly doesn't like to think things through too much. Consistency in the court scene is all over the place (burden of evidence switches randomly, final conclusion doesn't make sense, witch solution is ouright denied for no apparent reason and so on).
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2010-11-01, 18:06 | Link #18283 | ||||
The True Culprit
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As for purple, I like to think it represents Fantasy, with no truth basis, what with it's consistent use in magic scenes and such. Quote:
Also, I like how people keep forgetting how Battler saw all these different Kakera in this big epic vision, and shit. Quote:
Dlanor fucking abuses her power a hell of a lot. "Oh, I'm just going to seal all blue truths about this window. Just because. Don't like it? File a complaint and we'll get to it next year lolololol fuck you."
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2010-11-01, 18:12 | Link #18284 |
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Join Date: Oct 2010
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I was speaking about the possible interpretations of the golden truth, my version is that its something to do with evidence and understanding the mystery rather than understanding the mystery and bluffing your way out of it. Battler clearly remembered elements from the previous games that caused him to become the GM, I want to believe its putting the pieces together to solve the mystery and those pieces are evidence.
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2010-11-01, 18:51 | Link #18286 |
The True Culprit
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Alright, so after formulating my thoughts over dinner, I decided to present my interpretation of the Gold Truth, which is totally bestester than all others forever.
The Golden Truth is nothing but the Truth of Beatrice's heart, but may be either true or false so long as it addresses the core of everything. In every instance of the Gold Truth being used, it's been something which peeled away or explained part of Beatrice's magical narrative; the world she created to embody her feelings and set up her game. I guarantee that this corpse is Ushiromiya Kinzo's corpse...!! This statement is Absolutely True, but it destroys a huge part of Beatrice's narrative; the entire fantasy loses something if Kinzo was never alive to begin with, and the corpse is the final peg that cements the absoluteness of Kinzo's death, as otherwise you can argue around it, as Erika demonstrated. You used magic to create a golden flower petal inside an overturned cup. It was a splendid bit of magic. This is even easier. What is said is Absolutely True, you just have to consider Beatrice's definition of magic, which is essentially the same as what we would call "stage magic." And that is exactly what has been performed here. By establishing this with the Golden Truth, another chunk of the Magical World is stripped away, and even more of Beatrice's heart is exposed. We now know exactly what she means when she mentions magic, which explains, well, quite a lot. I propose that the Gold Truth doesn't matter in terms of syntax, or truthiness, or any other qualifier. It speaks about the truth of Beatrice's inner thoughts and workings, and speaks the truth on what is most important to her, and nothing else. If the Red truth is the truth of objective facts within a "game setting", then gold truth is the truth ABOUT the "game setting", such as the rules of how to actually play the game. Allegorically speaking.
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2010-11-01, 18:55 | Link #18287 | |
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That wasn't just about Knox's second although I think they may have used it to counter him. At the time Battler was still human and in episode 5 humans were not allowed to use red in the trial without a witch or somebody who could use it for them. That's why he was booted out. After he became sorcerer he could use red anytime he wanted.
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2010-11-01, 19:24 | Link #18288 | |
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Anyways he's challenged by Erika to use a human's truth to solve the Kinzo conundrum so he used the gold. |
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2010-11-01, 19:55 | Link #18289 | |
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2010-11-01, 20:36 | Link #18290 |
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I think overall the golden truth is a "conclusion" to a previous line of thought and that conclusion is basically your personal interpretation of a given scene and can only be beaten by a red that is a new information.
The reason why the Kinzo's corpse couldn't be countered is because Red confirmed instead it couldn't be identifiable (the red was ensuring no counter could be said on the gold). Bit unrelated, but I guess I was thinking David Lynch, and began to wonder how much is a psychogenic fugue at work within Beatrice's mind. A bit of a funny thought : If Hachijou wrote arc 3 onward, we can assume that the "canonical ending" of Beatrice's own tale ends with arc 2. What happens in arc 2's end? Beatrice wins, Battler becomes furniture. See Battlertrice isn't that crazy after all. |
2010-11-01, 20:40 | Link #18291 | |
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The only weird thing is that usually you prove that witches are witches with some logical falacies and superstitious myths and then burn them at the stakes, while in Umineko they're trying to win by proving the opposite. |
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2010-11-01, 21:11 | Link #18292 | |
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I can't speak about episode 7 since I haven't read it yet, but I think it makes sense for Battler to not be in that episode very much since he wasn't very involved in episode 3 either.
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2010-11-01, 21:13 | Link #18293 | |
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2010-11-01, 21:30 | Link #18294 | |
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And I guess that was also sorta my point. They're not even trying to be fair, they're just having a nonsensical laugh in the process of getting rid of Beatrice. I mean ultimately Beato had lost all interest in the game. It was nothing but a farce to dirty Beatrice's name before finishing her off. Reality I think the trial should be more seen as LD and Bern's twisted idea of a "show". Overall it felt a lot more like a stage then a court. |
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2010-11-01, 22:24 | Link #18296 | ||
The True Culprit
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2010-11-01, 22:30 | Link #18297 | |||
The True Culprit
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Besides, Sorcerer Battler is clearly the Meta-Battler we've been following, but ascended by gaining new insight. I can't personally discern any meaningful narrative path wherein EP5 Battler just...slips off somehow and a Piece Battler who died ages ago comes out of nowhere.
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2010-11-01, 22:42 | Link #18298 | |
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But How do we know the Battler that was revived was the SAME Battler???
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Last edited by Judoh; 2010-11-01 at 22:55. |
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