AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Current Series > Fate/ Series > F/SN UBW TV Spoiler Threads (for Franchise Veterans)

Notices

View Poll Results: F/SN UBW TV - Episode 20 Rating
Perfect 10 35 64.81%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 14 25.93%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 2 3.70%
7 out of 10 : Good 3 5.56%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 54. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2015-05-29, 12:34   Link #201
Rising Dragon
Goat Herder
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 31
Something like that. As I said before, Nasu shot himself in the foot with that retcon when it was entirely unnecessary.
__________________
Rising Dragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-05-29, 14:15   Link #202
Dengar
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 34
Also, that line about close combat somewhat contradicts the way I've read a lot of stuff in the VN.

His tracing ability does not seem to be necessarily limited to swords, or even close range weapons.

For starters, Archer is often found conjuring a bow.

I find the mere notion that one's special ability is "limited to one's origin". Is that really how origin works? I thought it just makes it easier to weave magecraft that utilizes one's origin, and makes certain "signature moves" possible, as it were.
Dengar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-05-29, 15:37   Link #203
Levani
貴方が私のマスターか?
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Georgia, Tbilisi
Can Gilgamesh fight with a sword?
Levani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-05-29, 16:42   Link #204
Dengar
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 34
He can wave a sword around, sure. But if your question is "Is he a skilled swordsman?" then no. His MO involves overpowering the enemy with weapons that are more powerful than they can handle, or just skewer them with tons of noble phantasms. Ergo, he is very crude and doesn't really do "combat".
Dengar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-05-29, 17:21   Link #205
ChronoReverse
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2004
He's an Archer not a Saber. So he shoots swords (and space-time ripping vortices of spinning air).
ChronoReverse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-05-29, 17:36   Link #206
GDB
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
I find the mere notion that one's special ability is "limited to one's origin". Is that really how origin works? I thought it just makes it easier to weave magecraft that utilizes one's origin, and makes certain "signature moves" possible, as it were.
Watch Kara no Kyoukai. Origin is like the driving force behind one's existence. It has no impact on the ease of him doing it.

His affinity for swords, however, does make it easier to trace swords. If I recall, it's about three times harder for him to trace anything else, at the bare minimum.
GDB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-05-29, 18:49   Link #207
TwilightsCall
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Age: 27
Send a message via MSN to TwilightsCall
Shirou can project anything. He can only trace swords and the like.

Projection is a magecraft that is probably rather simple, since everyone seems to mention to him that its a useless ability when they notice it. It produces a hollow copy, probably not particularly functional, but obviously something solid enough that Shirou considers it a successful cast. Projection comes up at two major points in the VN - one, where he mentions that whenever he fails his Reinforcement during practice, he "calms himself down" by doing some easy projection. Two, we see in the fight against Berserker in the forest in Fate route, Shirou Projects a bow and arrow, and it is expectedly useless, Berserker entirely ignores him and it accomplishes nothing.

Tracing is limited to close combat weapons, with a strong preference for swords. This is because Tracing pulls the weapon out from UBW, it doesn't simply create it out of thin air. This is capable of actually producing things of Noble Phantasm quality, it recreates the original materials, experience, and history of the weapon, and affords Shirou a portion of the original wielders' skill and strength.


So with that being said, even Tracing isn't really limited to swords. After all, there's Rho Aius. However, UBW was fundamentally designed to produce swords, so producing anything else, while possible, consumes two or three times the amount of mana. And, according to Nasu, this is where the limitation of fundamentally close combat weapons only comes in.
TwilightsCall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-05-29, 19:06   Link #208
Dengar
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 34
I... wasn't looking for the full explanation on what tracing is. I already knew that. Or was that directed at somebody else?
Dengar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-05-29, 20:13   Link #209
novalysis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Here's a question that might sound ignorant. But can Shirou theoretically trace the Jewels that Rin's Magecraft is reliant on (given sufficient mana)? And will such jewels be usable by Rin?
novalysis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-05-29, 22:01   Link #210
quigonkenny
Sav'aaq!
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hyrule
Age: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
Here's a question that might sound ignorant. But can Shirou theoretically trace the Jewels that Rin's Magecraft is reliant on (given sufficient mana)? And will such jewels be usable by Rin?
From what I know, I'd guess that Shirou would theoretically be able to Trace the jewels, but it might not do anyone much good. Even assuming Shirou has enough mana, considering they would invoke the 3x non-sword penalty, anything Traced eventually fades away, and given Shirou's skill, it doesn't take long. I don't know how long it takes Rin to charge her jewels, so they might disappear before she's been able to put enough mana into them to be useful. Archer would likely have better luck, given his much greater experience and potential power.
__________________
FGO Info: (JP) 055835281 | クワイガンケニー ==== (EN) 952525630 | quigonkenny
quigonkenny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-05-30, 02:17   Link #211
Dengar
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 34
Someone has to supply the mana to put into it. And it's not going to be Shirou. And as far as I can tell, those gems tend to be charged with something akin to a life time of mana. (not literally a life time, but you know what I mean)
Dengar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-05-30, 03:33   Link #212
Lorhand
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Anyway, thanks for the quote. I quite understand where you people are coming from. I hope you don't mind if I take even "the official side material" with a grain of salt. I accept its existence, but I can't always buy into it the same way most people do.

You can call it "headcanon", it matters not to me how many derogatory statements people fling at me.

I mean, before "Ea is a divine construct", the VN already had established that Ea cannot be traced because it cannot be analyzed.

Also wasn't Excalibur forged by faeries, not a god?
Excalibur is a weapon forged by the world. And I don't really see the problem with Ea. It cannot be analyzed, because how it's made goes beyond Shirou's understanding. So divine constructs are something that Shirou usually could not do. No contradiction here with Ea or Avalon. Perhaps with Excalibur, but that could also be handwaved with what Nasu has to say about this and headcanon, which I'm not gonna do because I know and understand why people are pissed about this.

Last edited by Lorhand; 2015-05-30 at 04:09.
Lorhand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-05-30, 06:58   Link #213
Tenzen12
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
With all that talking about tracing I started wonder... why didn't Archer just traced on Rule Breaker? He could kill Shirou anytime If he did, right?
__________________
"I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it" (Charles R. Swindoll)
Tenzen12 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-05-30, 07:53   Link #214
Lorhand
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenzen12 View Post
With all that talking about tracing I started wonder... why didn't Archer just traced on Rule Breaker? He could kill Shirou anytime If he did, right?
I would guess he didn't see it in his life. He saw it for the first time when he was prepared to betray Rin, so he could backstab Caster, later.
Lorhand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-05-30, 07:55   Link #215
GreyZone
"Senior" "Member"
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenzen12 View Post
With all that talking about tracing I started wonder... why didn't Archer just traced on Rule Breaker? He could kill Shirou anytime If he did, right?
He only witnesses it when Archer offered himself to Caster. It would have been different if he had been involved in the battle in the house (VN)/on the bridge (anime) before Saber's contract was nullified. In short: He never had a chance to analyse it before he started his troian horse strategy.
__________________
GreyZone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-05-30, 07:57   Link #216
GDB
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 32
Pretty much. If you assume Archer's war was almost identical to the Fate route (all indications are that it was very similar, at the very least), he only ever met Caster for about 3 seconds before she got skewered by Gilgamesh, and she never revealed Rule Breaker.
GDB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-05-30, 08:46   Link #217
Kanon
Kana Hanazawa ♥
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: France
Age: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Pretty much. If you assume Archer's war was almost identical to the Fate route (all indications are that it was very similar, at the very least), he only ever met Caster for about 3 seconds before she got skewered by Gilgamesh, and she never revealed Rule Breaker.
Archer knew about her identity though, so I doubt their meeting was that short. That doesn't mean she ever got the opportunity to use rule breaker though. She can only use it if she can manage to get close to a servant, and her being a terrible melee fighter, that doesn't happen very often.
__________________
Rize and Kaneki
Kanon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-05-30, 10:16   Link #218
Dengar
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 34
Whether or not he was able to trace Rule Breaker isn't really the issue here. And in fact Shirou traces it in HF without having ever seen it.

The issue here is, if he traced rule breaker and set himself free, then he wouldn't be able to do the whole gambit thing where he gained Caster's sort-of-trust so he can subsequently kill her and set up Saber as Rin's new servant.

Killing Shirou isn't the only thing on his mind.
Dengar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-05-30, 10:25   Link #219
Tenzen12
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Nope, whether he can trace it or not IS issue. Because he wanted kill Shirou long time before he decided for that gambit.
__________________
"I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it" (Charles R. Swindoll)
Tenzen12 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-05-30, 12:22   Link #220
Rava
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Why would he want to drop his effective time limit for doing so from the beginning? That's not very practical. He also had to do it when Shirou doesn't have a Servant or he'd be toast. By the time that happened, he was already leashed, and twice so, in a sense.
Rava is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 15:50.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
We use Silk.