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Old 2020-06-08, 05:35   Link #121
Yu Ominae
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuroageha View Post
Double stands country and Karma.
That's kinda the point. Hong Kong (via Carrie Lam), Iran, Venezuela and other countries the US has criticized is returning the favor.
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Old 2020-06-08, 06:11   Link #122
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuroageha View Post
Double stands country and Karma.
The CCP is also not exempt from karma BTW. It's only a matter of time before their own poisons come home to roost
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Old 2020-06-08, 13:17   Link #123
SeijiSensei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero View Post
Having more cameras statistically doesn't help:
https://www.pnas.org/content/116/21/10329.short?rss=1
There are graphics in the link if you are interested.
Over 2,000 DC officers in this experiment, too, so if there were an effect you ought to see it in a sample this large. The "OLS" regression-adjusted difference for use of force is close to proving significant, but the effect overall is pretty small. I always taught my students that statistical significance and substantive importance are two very different things.

I didn't read the report, but I assume those with cameras could not turn them off?
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Old 2020-06-08, 14:42   Link #124
Blueknight78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
Over 2,000 DC officers in this experiment, too, so if there were an effect you ought to see it in a sample this large. The "OLS" regression-adjusted difference for use of force is close to proving significant, but the effect overall is pretty small. I always taught my students that statistical significance and substantive importance are two very different things.

I didn't read the report, but I assume those with cameras could not turn them off?
the problem with statistics is which while they can cover "some variables" they can't cover all of then, in this case we must take in account if the oficers using that cameras already have a hystoric off excessive use of force, if they are the "more pacific type, the places were that oficers works if the places were more "violent" or more pacific, we have many variables to take in account when trying to use new stuffs and let's say give a camera to a police which is not knowed to be "violent" and or in a place with low crime and violence rates really not gonna make "too much of a change" in numbers.
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Old 2020-06-08, 15:32   Link #125
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John Oliver explains what defund the police actually means, and why we must do it.

Honestly, the militarization of the police is just part of the problem.
There's also systematic racism in the community, but this is a good start.


//
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Old 2020-06-08, 15:52   Link #126
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One odd thing that some of the Republicans keep pointing out is that most of these cities and states with the major violence and police problems, are run by Democrats. Some for decades. Meaning that the laws of those cities and states, and the police departments, have been passed, setup, or run by the Democrats for more than a generation.
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Old 2020-06-08, 16:54   Link #127
Chosen_Hero
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueknight78 View Post
it's really weird and only show how big are the issue of the U.S police actions, it's really time to then take some actions over it otherwise with the internet and too many fake news and peoples inspiring more "rage" and hatred on the social media it not gonna take too much until U.S have a big civil war.
This is a multifaceted problem being seeing just from one viewpoint, and everyone is ignoring every other part of it to just focus on the one problem. People ask for accountability from others but don't want to take accountability for their part in the problem. Sadly, if you point this out people will attack you for not agreeing with them and label you as "part of the problem".

Personally, I have been expecting a civil war to happen all over again, the rampant hypocrisy and stupidity was bound to catch up to people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
Over 2,000 DC officers in this experiment, too, so if there were an effect you ought to see it in a sample this large. The "OLS" regression-adjusted difference for use of force is close to proving significant, but the effect overall is pretty small. I always taught my students that statistical significance and substantive importance are two very different things.

I didn't read the report, but I assume those with cameras could not turn them off?
Whether they can be turned off or not doesn't change the problem that they don't help, since 9/11 happened more security and more cameras has been added everywhere, how has that worked out so far? Do you actually feel safer with their existence? Personally, I just feel like my privacy is being invaded and we are all being accepting of it.

Ask yourself, would more cameras and being taped at your job truly change things? You are apparently a teacher, would more cameras truly fix the problem of bad teachers that abuse, are racist to, or that have sexual relationships with students? What kind of job would improve with more cameras around?

Look, that's from a study that was being explained in a podcast I listen to and that I felt had some pretty valid points so I decided to read, if you want to read the entire thing yourself here you go:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero View Post
For anyone that would like to see a study on the matter and research based solutions:

https://mobile.twitter.com/samswey/s...55701271732224
I'm sorry it's only in tweet form, if that's not good enough for you than you are free to ignore my comments.
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Old 2020-06-08, 17:11   Link #128
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero View Post
Ask yourself, would more cameras and being taped at your job truly change things? You are apparently a teacher, would more cameras truly fix the problem of bad teachers that abuse, are racist to, or that have sexual relationships with students?
Maybe not the last one, but it's possible cameras would dissuade teachers from being abusive or racist during lectures.
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Old 2020-06-08, 17:22   Link #129
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Cameras may not stop people from committing crimes, but it sure as hell makes it easier to catch them.

At the very least, it gives much more to a complaint than their words vs yours.
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Old 2020-06-08, 18:58   Link #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Cameras may not stop people from committing crimes, but it sure as hell makes it easier to catch them.
I think this is the reason the study shows no difference with or without cameras. Why would their actions change if they know they wont be held accountable for their actions because the dice are loaded or because they can turn them off discretionally?
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Old 2020-06-08, 19:11   Link #131
Chosen_Hero
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Cameras may not stop people from committing crimes, but it sure as hell makes it easier to catch them.

At the very least, it gives much more to a complaint than their words vs yours.
Yet it doesn't stop the problem completely, does it? It may dissuade a few, but what's the point if it keeps happening? More cameras won't fix the problem, at best it's like putting a band-aid on one crack on the wall when the wall has many different cracks that are part of the problem and sadly, some will ignore the cracks they make themselves while focusing on the cracks others are making on the wall while asking them to fix them while theirs gets bigger.
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Old 2020-06-08, 19:58   Link #132
Guardian Enzo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mangamuscle View Post
I think this is the reason the study shows no difference with or without cameras. Why would their actions change if they know they wont be held accountable for their actions because the dice are loaded or because they can turn them off discretionally?
Maybe the answer is to actually hold them accountable?
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Old 2020-06-08, 20:36   Link #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero View Post
Yet it doesn't stop the problem completely, does it? It may dissuade a few, but what's the point if it keeps happening? More cameras won't fix the problem, at best it's like putting a band-aid on one crack on the wall when the wall has many different cracks that are part of the problem and sadly, some will ignore the cracks they make themselves while focusing on the cracks others are making on the wall while asking them to fix them while theirs gets bigger.
Nobody said it was a magical fix on its own. In fact that has little to do with I was talking about.

Also that's like saying we shouldn't have laws against murder, because people still murder anyways.
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Old 2020-06-08, 22:39   Link #134
mangamuscle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Maybe the answer is to actually hold them accountable?
I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and suddenly quit their jobs simultaneously.
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Old 2020-06-08, 23:23   Link #135
Chosen_Hero
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Nobody said it was a magical fix on its own. In fact that has little to do with I was talking about.

Also that's like saying we shouldn't have laws against murder, because people still murder anyways.
That a bad comparison, one is a law that is needed for a society to work, the other is just an extra measure.

No it isn't a magical fix and yes, I know what you meant, still doesn't change the fact that a lot of the people asking for it do think it is and do talk about it like it is.
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Old 2020-06-08, 23:39   Link #136
Guardian Enzo
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Old 2020-06-09, 00:05   Link #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero View Post
That a bad comparison, one is a law that is needed for a society to work, the other is just an extra measure.
Point is "it's going to happen anyways" is a bad argument. I could have picked anything eg "why lock your door; people can break in anyways." Your argument is interchangeable with well... mostly anything.


Quote:
No it isn't a magical fix and yes, I know what you meant, still doesn't change the fact that a lot of the people asking for it do think it is and do talk about it like it is.
Well, you're not talking to anyone here so not even sure why we're having this conversation. I said nothing about using bodycams to change police behavior and this is the second time in the span of two days you've done this. Are you confusing me for another poster?
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Old 2020-06-09, 08:06   Link #138
SeijiSensei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueknight78 View Post
the problem with statistics is which while they can cover "some variables" they can't cover all of then, in this case we must take in account if the oficers using that cameras already have a hystoric off excessive use of force,
All these problems are resolved by using a true experimental design with random assignment. Because the officers are assigned randomly to the two groups, confounding factors should not be associated with the outcomes of interest. This isn't the place for a discussion on research designs, but you might want to do a bit of reading first before writing your next critique. I recommend https://wagner.nyu.edu/files/doctora..._Chapter_5.pdf starting around page 13 on "Three True Experimental Designs." I'll warn you it's very dense, but also one of the most formative things I ever read in graduate school.
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Old 2020-06-09, 10:58   Link #139
Chosen_Hero
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Point is "it's going to happen anyways" is a bad argument. I could have picked anything eg "why lock your door; people can break in anyways." Your argument is interchangeable with well... mostly anything.




Well, you're not talking to anyone here so not even sure why we're having this conversation. I said nothing about using bodycams to change police behavior and this is the second time in the span of two days you've done this. Are you confusing me for another poster?
YOU talk about cameras and the effectiveness of adding more of them, and I replied that it doesn't stop the problem, to which YOU replied to with a horrible analogy and then tried to pass of as if I was wasn't talking about what was being discussed, how about you stop moving goalposts?

Love how you claim I made a bad argument because I pointed out that you made a bad argument. It is going to happen anyways, it doesn't matter how "easier" it is to catch someone, it will still happen, and that's the truth. The people protesting are looking for an all encompassing perfect solution that doesn't exist while only focusing on one part of the entire problem.

You could have picked anything, yet you didn't, you chose the one most convenient one for your argument that ended up being a bad comparison that made no sense when you actually thought about it. Now here you are acting like you didn't reply to MY comment that specifically were talking about body cameras, the addition of more cameras and their effectiveness, are you sure the problem isn't with you? Besides, I already admitted that the kther comment was an error where I quoted the wrong post, but I guess you ignored that part too.

Let's agree to disagree and not reply to each other anymore, block me if you want I don't care, I am not in the mood to waste time exchanging words with you. Don't get it wrong, I am not running away, I just don't want to have to deal with you possibility of someone getting salty and calling the mods over.
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Old 2020-06-09, 12:22   Link #140
Archon_Wing
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Quote:
YOU talk about cameras and the effectiveness of adding more of them,
Nope, again, state where I did. I even said

Quote:
Cameras may not stop people from committing crimes
Not sure why it's getting so serious. xD I never replied to you; you replied to me with a misrepresentation. I just retorted and it didn't turn out the way you wanted it. C'lest la vie.
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