AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > Manga

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2021-05-13, 16:52   Link #3421
BWTraveller
Born to ship
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Texas
Well yeah, I was saying that this conversation was starting to sound like a return to accusations of double standards, again ignoring actual material and developments to make things look more or less than they are, at this point amounting not to accusations of double standards/hypocrisy for liking Miko but not Tsubame as a pairing but rather to something along the lines of "well Tsubame only lost because Aka said she shouldn't win" and therefore "if Miko wins it has nothing to do with whether they make a good pair or what she says or does in pursuit of him, it's just Aka pushing them together". Again, from my perspective Miko and Ishigami have much more interesting interactions, more chemistry, more understanding of one another and appreciation of one another's features than was demonstrated with Tsubame. If you were to go that direction I'd say that Aka decided Tsubame wasn't the right path and therefore chose not to give as much depth to the interactions between Ishigami and Tsubame as he did between him and Miko. And as I've said, I've seen stories where such shallow connections won out over something deeper, I just couldn't stand those stories. Honestly I think Tsubame was more of a motivating factor in Ishigami's story. From the start I didn't feel like there was much there, didn't feel much chemistry until literally the last chapter or two of said arc, but the desire to impress helped him to actually work at something, to build some confidence, and yeah even the rejection may have served him in this regard, helping him to see that his value can't be made into points.
BWTraveller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2021-05-13, 18:41   Link #3422
Kanon
Kana Hanazawa ♥
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: France
Age: 34
Fujiwara actually giving valid love advice. WHAT.
__________________
Rize and Kaneki
Kanon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2021-05-13, 21:34   Link #3423
Wandering Soul
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: America
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
Fujiwara actually giving valid love advice. WHAT.
As much as a joke of a love detective that she is, Fujiwara actually has given valid love advice before to both Kashiwagi (encouraged her to stay with Tsubasa) and Tsubasa (got him to just hold his girlfriend's hand).
__________________
Wandering Soul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2021-05-13, 21:51   Link #3424
BWTraveller
Born to ship
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Texas
Yeah, honestly she's pretty good at providing love advice. It tends to be sort of entry-level advice, as you'd expect of someone who's never had any experience with romance, but really that's the most important level in a lot of cases. It's in that area, the simplest issues like figuring out how you really feel, how to work up the courage to take the next step, when you should hold back and when you should throw caution and ethics to the wind and just attack, that people tend to falter (here at least); not to mention that the deeper stuff is better dealt with personally or discussed together with one's boyfriend/girlfriend since it varies a lot. So really, in that sense it seems the right choice for Kaguya to have gone to Kashiwagi for advice on sex: Chika could've given her great advice on how to approach Miyuki or when she should drop her pride (if she'd consulted her and taken the advice back at the start I think the story'd have been over years ago), but this stuff is out of her depth.
BWTraveller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2021-05-14, 02:50   Link #3425
WingedAccelerator
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWTraveller View Post
Honestly I think Tsubame was more of a motivating factor in Ishigami's story. From the start I didn't feel like there was much there, didn't feel much chemistry until literally the last chapter or two of said arc, but the desire to impress helped him to actually work at something, to build some confidence, and yeah even the rejection may have served him in this regard, helping him to see that his value can't be made into points.
To be fair, they were not on equal footing, but I have already said this. Not only did Iino exist properly in the story about 40 chapters before Ishigami's crush on Tsubame was revealed, thus their dynamic existed at that point, Iino is way more quirkier, thus invoked more emotions from the readers than a proper school madonna. Like fire and water. But when potential Tsubame screentime with or without Ishigami was taken in favor of portraying Iino being sad among many other things, one couldn't help, but feel it really would be true subversion if Tsubame wins in this heavy uphill battle, despite almost all of the odds are against her. But she didn't. Oh, well.
WingedAccelerator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2021-05-14, 03:17   Link #3426
Sixth
Nobita
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
Fujiwara actually giving valid love advice. WHAT.
and her valid love advice somehow able to achieve different result ala making Miko a yandere.
Sixth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2021-05-14, 06:14   Link #3427
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixth View Post
and her valid love advice somehow able to achieve different result ala making Miko a yandere.
She's always been a yandere. All she did was turn up the thirst a bit.
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2021-05-14, 08:02   Link #3428
Sixth
Nobita
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
She's always been a yandere. All she did was turn up the thirst a bit.
Well, still Fujiwara's fault for triggering that.
Sixth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2021-05-14, 09:36   Link #3429
BWTraveller
Born to ship
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Texas
Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedAccelerator View Post
To be fair, they were not on equal footing, but I have already said this. Not only did Iino exist properly in the story about 40 chapters before Ishigami's crush on Tsubame was revealed, thus their dynamic existed at that point, Iino is way more quirkier, thus invoked more emotions from the readers than a proper school madonna. Like fire and water. But when potential Tsubame screentime with or without Ishigami was taken in favor of portraying Iino being sad among many other things, one couldn't help, but feel it really would be true subversion if Tsubame wins in this heavy uphill battle, despite almost all of the odds are against her. But she didn't. Oh, well.
I can accept that. Since I shipped IshiMiko from very early on I certainly wouldn't have liked it if someone else won out, but if they'd given more material, made me really believe in Ishigami's feelings for her and see a positive path, I would've been good with it. As I said, it may have been predestined but in that case I think Aka set it up from early on as such, deliberately designing the relationship to act as a growth experience rather than a budding romance. If you want a subversion, by the way, I'd recommend Momokuri (supposing you can read enough Japanese since I don't think any translations got this far).
Spoiler for off topic:


Back on topic, I don't know if I'd go so far as to say that Miko was or has become a yandere. Could happen perhaps, but I don't really remember her ever going far enough for me to think creepy obsession.
BWTraveller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2021-05-14, 12:37   Link #3430
WingedAccelerator
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
I only brought up subversion since Aka is quite often regarded as some sort of subversion master. Although I dislike this fancy word along with "deconstruction".

About Iino, either she has multiple shades to her personality and also changes constantly, or she has a new personality each passing chapter with a little exaggeration. But she is not a yandere. Yet.
WingedAccelerator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2021-05-14, 13:06   Link #3431
Ichinotachi
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Cali
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
Fujiwara actually giving valid love advice. WHAT.
Fujiwara is always there observing, sometimes she brings these pieces of advice that helps people close to her, I remember when she did it with Prez. Nice to see that showing her understanding does not need any drama but instead a clever remark that can push Iino to do what she really wants.

Now about Tsubame and Iino, I really do not see any chance for tsubame with Ishigami despite the fact that Ishigami is still trying really hard to be "that man" for her. That part where Iino said if she can drop the good girl act is very concerning, I hope that Aka does something smart that can lead to more shenanigans instead of another Tsubame arc where he dragged a bit too much the entire arc.
Ichinotachi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2021-05-14, 13:14   Link #3432
BWTraveller
Born to ship
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Texas
We'll have to disagree about the consistency of her character.

Anyway, I honestly can't say that it would have been such a "subversion". While it's a subversion of expectations, it's hardly a subversion of the common path. After reading Momokuri I tried to search down a story that provided strong chemistry with one side of a triangle but not the other in which the girl/boy actually did realize what they have in the other person, and I hardly found anything. I found several that followed the same pattern of going after the crush regardless of how bad a match it is. In that sense, I suppose one could argue that it actually was a bit of a subversion.

Anyway, I've never really gotten the claims of "subversion". This's definitely a very unique series, but it never felt to me like it was subverting or deconstructing anything.
BWTraveller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2021-05-14, 13:59   Link #3433
Endscape
The Mage of Four Hearts
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ichinotachi View Post
Now about Tsubame and Iino, I really do not see any chance for tsubame with Ishigami despite the fact that Ishigami is still trying really hard to be "that man" for her. That part where Iino said if she can drop the good girl act is very concerning, I hope that Aka does something smart that can lead to more shenanigans instead of another Tsubame arc where he dragged a bit too much the entire arc.
Ishigami is more or less over Tsubame by now. For Iino, I anticipate a return of the schemes of the early manga, except Iino won't have as much moderation as Kaguya and Ishigami will just be oblivious.
__________________




Illusion, illusion, this is illusion. It cannot harm me.
Endscape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2021-05-14, 16:20   Link #3434
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedAccelerator View Post
I only brought up subversion since Aka is quite often regarded as some sort of subversion master. Although I dislike this fancy word along with "deconstruction".

About Iino, either she has multiple shades to her personality and also changes constantly, or she has a new personality each passing chapter with a little exaggeration. But she is not a yandere. Yet.
I'm just saying. The more we know her, the more we see there's something seriously broken in her. If, 20 years down the line, they interview her friends because she did a murder-suicide, the answers will be along the lines of "I'm shocked... it took so long for her to snap".
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2021-05-14, 18:21   Link #3435
Kanon
Kana Hanazawa ♥
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: France
Age: 34
We've already seen Miko drop the act in front of Miyuki. I don't think we'll be surprised, but Ishigami and other characters will.
__________________
Rize and Kaneki
Kanon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2021-05-15, 02:38   Link #3436
Shadow5YA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Miko was always supposed to be clever, so if anything the bigger question is whether she was aware all along about all the times she was being bullied or deceived. Was she just playing along the entire time?
Shadow5YA is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2021-05-16, 22:34   Link #3437
HtwoN
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Texas, US
I think people over-interpreted the line from Iino. I don't think she will suddenly turn into a gyaru or a yandere.

Iino is a straight shooter. Her ideal of a "good girl" prevented her from approaching Ishigami. The actions such as what she did at the end of the chapter were considered "shameless". Now that she no longer abides by the "good girl" rules, she can actively pursue Ishigami.

I don't think Iino will scheme like Kaguya did. She will use blitzkrieg.
HtwoN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 08:30   Link #3438
WingedAccelerator
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Don't understand a single thing, just guessing here.

Spoiler for Chapter 227:
WingedAccelerator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 09:06   Link #3439
Ichinotachi
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Cali
New chapter is out, Fujiwara unleashed a monster! here is a small summary.

Spoiler for Ch:


Spoiler for ch:
Ichinotachi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 23:40   Link #3440
BWTraveller
Born to ship
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Texas
Wow. Guess I was right about her unchaining a dragon. That said, sounds like her feelings are rather complicated. I rather disagree with others' assessment that she just changes character on a dime or such, but there is a lot of complexity to her mood and motivations. She's desperately trying to hold to an ideal even though she often doesn't have enough willpower and bravery to carry it through and realize it, and it often ends up just interfering with her own happiness. There's all kinds of frustrations and fears. In some ways it does push her to the point where various yandere behaviors become quite tempting. Yet, when all's said and done, sounds like Ishigami is able to see through some very key points. Even if there's a part of her that wants to control him or even mess with him, he's able to pull off critical hits on her. So she may be a dragon, but he's possibly the only one that can defeat or tame her, depending on what he chooses.
BWTraveller is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
coming of age, desconstruction, love triangle, romcom, school life

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 14:23.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
We use Silk.