Nanoha - StrikerS - Episode 08 Discussion / Poll

[An Hero in Disguise]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

*At ease...*

Okay, so far so good...

Though I would expect a real-live troll to come in ANY minute now...

They're busy with Ep.10 And I didn't see the author of Nanoha's "Hive Queen" complex for a while, guess the latest episode didn't give more fuel to the idea.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise

They're busy with Ep.10 And I didn't see the author of Nanoha's "Hive Queen" complex for a while, guess the latest episode didn't give more fuel to the idea.

I would rightfully classify it as a delusion, rather than an idea

As revolutionary as it sounds, it simply just doesn't have enough realistic, logical, and existing evidences to back it up

[mdauben]

Originally Posted by Sorrow-K

That was behaviour I wouldn't have predicted from Nanoha. It's refreshing that we've seen what is essentially a new side of her, where she isn't always totally amiable and accommodating.

I liked that, too.

It seems Nanoha takes her responsibilities as a trainer and member of the TSAB seriously. Her personality is such that she will try the kind approach first, but she is obviously willing to get... stern if the situation calls for it. She had already talked to Teana about her reckless behaviour at the museum, and then she tried again when she stopped the attack from the two girls "bare handed", but Teana just won't listen, so I guess it was time to try knocking some sense into her.

It's obvious from her expression that Subaru doesn't understand why Nanoha is doing that, though. Looks like Subaru's "hero worship" is going to take a serious hit, at least for now.

The trailer for the next episode looks very interesting, and I can't wait to see the fall out from Nanoha's little lesson in disipline!

[felix]

There's just one thing. While I agree with her logic- umm~ I mean I agreed eventually.. the only fault in it is we never got to see any tactical training. I'm sure they did some but because they never showed any and just showed us them swinging left and right and hitting some targets makes it sound like Nanoha's complaining for them using strategy. Like she was expecting them to stand still and just shoot at her

Also some of her complaints were unfounded, like Subaru hitting her.. she wasn't exactly all comfortable with it so why the complaint.

I'm sure they covered tactics and strategy as far as story goes, but since they show little to none of it in the episodes seeing Nanoha complain about it just pisses of any one who sees it. Before the episode and a lot of thinking one would presume all the training was oriented at them using the devices and nothing being done towards tactics and maneuvers.

Somehow I feel the moment was good due to lack of attention to detail in previous episodes.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Sigh... Not a troll, just a misguided soul...

Originally Posted by Cats

There's just one thing. While I agree with her logic- umm~ I mean I agreed eventually.. the only fault in it is we never got to see any tactical training. I'm sure they did some but because they never showed any and just showed us them swinging left and right and hitting some targets makes it sound like Nanoha's complaining for them using strategy. Like she was expecting them to stand still and just shoot at her

You're getting the wrong impression.

The Strategy they were using is completely different and much more riskier than what she had taught them.

In a mock test, you're expected to use what you've learnt, not try to be a hero.

Originally Posted by Cats

Also some of her complaints were unfounded, like Subaru hitting her.. she wasn't exactly all comfortable with it so why the complaint.

She was pointing out their teamwork as a whole. The plan was completely wrong.

And I'm Strongly against using the word 'complaint'

Originally Posted by Cats

I'm sure they covered tactics and strategy as far as story goes, but since they show little to none of it in the episodes seeing Nanoha complain about it just pisses of any one who sees it. Before the episode and a lot of thinking one would presume all the training was oriented at them using the devices and nothing being done towards tactics and maneuvers.

Recall episode 6, when the rookies were being introduced to their role in the team. Teana's job was to provide cover fire for the rest of the team.

THAT is tactics.

Think outside the box, you can't expect to be force feed every single detail.

See? This is what happens if the writers skipped the training phase and jump right into the action.

Somehow I feel the moment was good due to lack of attention to detail in previous episodes.

What detail?

[ACE2003]

Man, I haven't been to this place in ages!! I thought I would share a little bit of my thoughts about this episode. Although I understand why Nanoha did what she did, I thought it was a bit excessive if you ask me. Sure Tea and Subaru went a little overboard, but was it really necessary to beat Tea down like that? Tea is trying to get stronger that's all. I just believe that Nanoha used a wee bit too much of her power there. No reason to blast her like that, despite Tea and Subaru going against the rules. The first blast okay...the second blast, WTF?! It's clear (at least to me) that Nanoha was trying to show who's boss around here instead of just calmly dealing with the situation as she usually does.

Honestly, Nanoha is too soft to begin with. These are trained professionals and she's trying to give them some cookie cutter training IMO. Tea wanted to become stronger? Why didn't Nanoha just teach her some moves or some advanced training or something? I think that she underestimated Tea's willingess to do whatever it takes to become a stronger combatant. If anything, I applaud Tea and Subaru's teamwork, although it went outside the boundaries. This situation is definately a wake up call for all parties involved. Nanoha needs to quit being so soft and be serious a little bit....but not to a point where you trying to blast the hell out of someone because they didn't follow your training regiment to a T. An effective "Time Out" would've been more appropiate. She could've thrown a barrier or something. Nanoha released Raging Heart to teach them a cruel lesson, which I had somewhat of a problem with. It's obvious that the majority of the posters her believe that what Nanoha did was right. But I'm a firm believer that the end doesn't justify the means. I thought the situation could've been handled a little bit more delicate, since she has triple or even more strength then Subaru and Tea combined.

You'll have to forgive me as well. I'm behind the times as I don't have access to the manga or what not. I'm just going strictly on the anime.

[felix]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Sigh... Not a troll, just a misguided soul...

No no no..
I'm not against her decision.
It's just sooo hard to swallow ~

[mdauben]

Originally Posted by ACE2003

Sure Tea and Subaru went a little overboard, but was it really necessary to beat Tea down like that?

She did try to just tell her to stop once she blocked their intial attack. At this point Teana has "lost it" and either doesn't realize the excercise is over, or doesn't care. Remember, she was about to blast Nanoha, first.

It's clear (at least to me) that Nanoha was trying to show who's boss around here instead of just calmly dealing with the situation as she usually does.

I would argue that she tried to deal with the situation calmly. She took Teana asside and had a talk with her after the affair at the museaum, and then tried to again when the pair made their reckless attack just then. Subaru did stop at that point, but Teana just kept shooting so Nanoha must have felt stronger measuers were needed to get through to her. She followed a clear progression from "friendly talk" to "scolding" to "smack down".

Tea wanted to become stronger? Why didn't Nanoha just teach her some moves or some advanced training or something? I think that she underestimated Tea's willingess to do whatever it takes to become a stronger combatant.

Because she has not mastered the training that Nanoha has already tried to give her?

The thing is, Nanoh is not training a bunch of solo fighters, she is training a team. That means every member of the team has a role to play, and they have to stick to that role so the other members of the team can be confident that that role is covered, so they can focus on their own jobs. Teana is supposed to be providing medium range fire support for the rest of the team, not jumping into melee with some half-baked, improvised attack.

If anything, I applaud Tea and Subaru's teamwork, although it went outside the boundaries.

I'm afraid I don't. I admire their drive, but they were ignoring their instructor's directions and doing whatever they wanted. What they did is referred to a being a "loose cannon". In a team situation they could be as dangerous to their other team members as to their opponents (like almost happened at the museum).

Plus, at this point they have a history of reckless behavior going back all the way to their testing for the team.. Remember that Nanoha made them re-take the test, becuase even though they technically achieved all the test goals (knocked out all the drones and reached the finish line in time) they took too many chances and as Subaru admitted they broke the rules of the test to do it.

I would say that the fact that Nanoha blasted Teana is actually a compliment. Despite her mistakes and her unwillingness to correct those mistakes, Nanoha must still feel she could become a valuble team member, or else she would have just thrown a "Bind" on her and told her "That's it girl, go pack your bags. Your are off the team".

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Cats

No no no..
I'm not against her decision.
It's just sooo hard to swallow ~

That's because you're chewing it the wrong way...

[ACE2003]

Originally Posted by mdauben

She did try to just tell her to stop once she blocked their intial attack. At this point Teana has "lost it" and either doesn't realize the excercise is over, or doesn't care. Remember, she was about to blast Nanoha, first.


I would argue that she tried to deal with the situation calmly. She took Teana asside and had a talk with her after the affair at the museaum, and then tried to again when the pair made their reckless attack just then. Subaru did stop at that point, but Teana just kept shooting so Nanoha must have felt stronger measuers were needed to get through to her. She followed a clear progression from "friendly talk" to "scolding" to "smack down".


Because she has not mastered the training that Nanoha has already tried to give her?

The thing is, Nanoh is not training a bunch of solo fighters, she is training a team. That means every member of the team has a role to play, and they have to stick to that role so the other members of the team can be confident that that role is covered, so they can focus on their own jobs. Teana is supposed to be providing medium range fire support for the rest of the team, not jumping into melee with some half-baked, improvised attack.


I'm afraid I don't. I admire their drive, but they were ignoring their instructor's directions and doing whatever they wanted. What they did is referred to a being a "loose cannon". In a team situation they could be as dangerous to their other team members as to their opponents (like almost happened at the museum).

Plus, at this point they have a history of reckless behavior going back all the way to their testing for the team.. Remember that Nanoha made them re-take the test, becuase even though they technically achieved all the test goals (knocked out all the drones and reached the finish line in time) they took too many chances and as Subaru admitted they broke the rules of the test to do it.

I would say that the fact that Nanoha blasted Teana is actually a compliment. Despite her mistakes and her unwillingness to correct those mistakes, Nanoha must still feel she could become a valuble team member, or else she would have just thrown a "Bind" on her and told her "That's it girl, go pack your bags. Your are off the team".

Well, although Tea may have "lost" it, considering just how much more powerful Nanoha is, I don't think was necessary to go completely all out on her. If anything, she's agitated Tea even more. Almost an inferiority complex I must say. Her morale at this point is pretty much shot. I understand that Nanoha tried talking to her and exhausted her methods as far as trying explain the training regiment to her, but it still doesn't give her the right to nearly destroy your student or should I say trainee because of it. I'm pretty sure that Nanoha feels pretty bad and thought that she could've solved the situation another way. I definately didn't expect that from her at all. To me, she lost her composure.

It's pretty clear that Tea wants strength. Why not just give her what she wants? Obviously the way that Nanoha is slowly training her, isn't bringing her any happiness. Tea just doesn't see the results, although Nanoha keeps saying such and such. She feels that she just isn't progressing. So why should Tea be blamed for wanting to excel and to push herself to the limit. Yes it's a team, but I feel that if a person is hungry and craving for knowledge of something, just feed them or at least explain how such and such will make you stronger. I don't think that Nanoha articulated that very well to Tea. She was too focused on the team aspect instead of explaining to Tea just exactly how she can become stronger which in thus may Tea find her own way to gain strength. A short advanced exercise or something wouldn't have hurt as far as Nanoha could've done for Tea.

As for the blast. You may see it as a compliment, but I see as a complete smack in the face. As I mentioned in the first paragraph, it just made her realize just how "weak" she is and the fact that her own training was rendered meaningless. It wasn't the fact that Subaru and Tea weren't paying attention, it's just the fact that they wanted to excel while Nanoha wanted to keep them protected and covered inside a little box. You can only keep something like that bottled in for so long. The aftermath of this isn't going to be pretty at all.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by ACE2003

Well, although Tea may have "lost" it, considering just how much more powerful Nanoha is, I don't think was necessary to go completely all out on her. If anything, she's agitated Tea even more.

Who attacked who first?

Originally Posted by ACE2003

Almost an inferiority complex I must say. Her morale at this point is pretty much shot. I understand that Nanoha tried talking to her and exhausted her methods as far as trying explain the training regiment to her, but it still doesn't give her the right to nearly destroy your student or should I say trainee because of it.

Who attack who first?

Are you saying Nanoha doesn't have the right to defend herself?

That is a dangerous weapon in Teana's hands

Originally Posted by ACE2003

I'm pretty sure that Nanoha feels pretty bad and thought that she could've solved the situation another way. I definately didn't expect that from her at all. To me, she lost her composure.

Who attacked who first?

Nanoha was completely calmed.

Originally Posted by ACE2003

It's pretty clear that Tea wants strength. Why not just give her what she wants?

I'll tell you why, because Strength has to be earned.

You jump the gun, and all you'll get is an even stronger Teana, loosing control.

Teana couldn't even control her basics, and like every martial arts, you MUST master your basics to move forward...

IF not it would cause problems in the future.

Originally Posted by ACE2003

Obviously the way that Nanoha is slowly training her, isn't bringing her any happiness. Tea just doesn't see the results, although Nanoha keeps saying such and such. She feels that she just isn't progressing. So why should Tea be blamed for wanting to excel and to push herself to the limit.

Did you missed the fact the Teana tried to shoot at Nanoha even though the mock battle was over?

Or did you missed the fact the She tried to shoot while Subaru was nearby?

Originally Posted by ACE2003

Yes it's a team, but I feel that if a person is hungry and craving for knowledge of something, just feed them or at least explain how such and such will make you stronger.

Did Teana tell anyone about it?

Point out one scene that Teana tells them what she wants. And I don't mean her ambition.

Originally Posted by ACE2003

I don't think that Nanoha articulated that very well to Tea. She was too focused on the team aspect instead of explaining to Tea just exactly how she can become stronger which in thus may Tea find her own way to gain strength. A short advanced exercise or something wouldn't have hurt as far as Nanoha could've done for Tea.

Do you have ANY reason to be that Teana is supremely different than either Subaru, Erio and Caro to HAVE to be treated differently?

You can't expect to be that spoiled that the tyeacher ALWAYS have to be thinking about you?

Nanoha have to plan the tranings for ALL four of them.

Originally Posted by ACE2003

As for the blast. You may see it as a compliment, but I see as a complete smack in the face. As I mentioned in the first paragraph, it just made her realize just how "weak" she is and the fact that her own training was rendered meaningless.

The keyword is to be "humble".

LEARN your place.

You can't do whatever you want just because you FEEL like it.

Try that and you'll really get killed in a live battle.

Originally Posted by ACE2003

It wasn't the fact that Subaru and Tea weren't paying attention, it's just the fact that they wanted to excel while Nanoha wanted to keep them protected and covered inside a little box. You can only keep something like that bottled in for so long. The aftermath of this isn't going to be pretty at all.

This is a military Organization. She is not training solo fighters.

There's a difference in trying to be better, and just downright reckless.

Get this through: That was a mock test, you HAVE to show what you've learnt during the training, NOT and I repeat NOT to try to be a hero.

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Get this through: That was a mock test, you HAVE to show what you've learnt during the training, NOT and I repeat NOT to try to be a hero.

woohoo chaos puts his foot down seriously this topic had been debated over and over soo many times the repetition bores me O.o clearly its not going to get through to some people and they are fully entitled to their own opinions...those that are still in doubt should see the light when ep 9 gets subbed (bless your soul if you dont though )

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

woohoo chaos puts his foot down seriously this topic had been debated over and over soo many times the repetition bores me O.o clearly its not going to get through to some people and they are fully entitled to their own opinions...those that are still in doubt should see the light when ep 9 gets subbed (bless your sould if you dont though )

Ah well...

It's 5:30 am in the morning here...

I can't help it...

[raidou]

There are at least 7 different people that brought this up every few pages so far ...We should put up a quoted link on every pages for people to refer or 'copy and paste' like Chaos said

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Ah well...

It's 5:30 am in the morning here...

I can't help it...

Shotting people down as morning exercise ..I see

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by raidou

There are at least 7 different people that brought this up every few pages so far ...We should put up a quoted link on every pages for people to refer or 'copy and paste' like Chaos said

I've thought about that, but then I realize in general they've all brought up the same point, but in details those points have to be answered differently...

[ACE2003]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Who attacked who first?



Who attack who first?

Are you saying Nanoha doesn't have the right to defend herself?

That is a dangerous weapon in Teana's hands



Who attacked who first?

Nanoha was completely calmed.



I'll tell you why, because Strength has to be earned.

You jump the gun, and all you'll get is an even stronger Teana, loosing control.

Teana couldn't even control her basics, and like every martial arts, you MUST master your basics to move forward...

IF not it would cause problems in the future.



Did you missed the fact the Teana tried to shoot at Nanoha even though the mock battle was over?

Or did you missed the fact the She tried to shoot while Subaru was nearby?



Did Teana tell anyone about it?

Point out one scene that Teana tells them what she wants. And I don't mean her ambition.



Do you have ANY reason to be that Teana is supremely different than either Subaru, Erio and Caro to HAVE to be treated differently?

You can't expect to be that spoiled that the tyeacher ALWAYS have to be thinking about you?

Nanoha have to plan the tranings for ALL four of them.








This is a military Organization. She is not training solo fighters.

There's a difference in trying to be better, and just downright reckless.

Get this through: That was a mock test, you HAVE to show what you've learnt during the training, NOT and I repeat NOT to try to be a hero.

Again, I don't view Tea's action as "reckless". It wasn't as if she was going to go all out and kill her IMO. What seems to me that Nanoha was pushed too close to edge and finally said, The Hell With It!! I'll teach those brats a lesson. I'll overwhelm them with my power! That'll teach them, which to me wasn't the best move. Yes, she was calm, but in the end, she lost her composure, no matter how you try and sugar coat it. I haven't seen episode 9, but I believe that this will cause a major rift between the two and even have a more damaging mental effect on Subaru. What Nanoha was doing was kicking a person while she was down, which wasn't necessary. One blast was enough, two was overboard.

Again, I don't blame Tea for wanting to go above and beyond. She was learning the basics, but also she wanted to gain a little strength for herself. She felt that the current training was doing too much, although it was helpful. I believe that Nanoha's training method was somewhat safe up untill when she said F-it!! Again, you can't blame a student for wanting to acquire more knowledge. I think that she would've handled it fine. But since she wasn't given that knowledge, she had to aquire it through hardwork and a willingess to overcome her shortcomings.
Don't misunderstand, I understand Nanoha's feelings. Nobody wants to feel like they're being ignored, I just feel that the situation itself didn't have to come to such drastic measures as this one.

In any case, I'm pretty sure that most people here have watched the episode 9 raws, so I'm not sure what will happen. We all have different viewpoints on what should've, could've been done. In the end it's all about expressing our opinions on the situation. Can't wait to see episode 9 subbed!!

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by ACE2003

Again, I don't view Tea's action as "reckless". It wasn't as if she was going to go all out and kill her IMO.

Yeahhh... About that, I don't know, I've grown up learning that shooting at people tends to have that objective...

Originally Posted by ACE2003

What seems to me that Nanoha was pushed too close to edge and finally said, The Hell With It!! I'll teach those brats a lesson. I'll overwhelm them with my power! That'll teach them, which to me wasn't the best move.

Yeahhhh.... About that, I don't know... I think anyone would be edgy when having a gun pointed at you....

Originally Posted by ACE2003

Yes, she was calm, but in the end, she lost her composure, no matter how you try and sugar coat it.

Wanna bet?

Notice the glow Teana had when she landed? That was Nanoha lowering her down slowly...

Would someone who had lost her temper do that?

Originally Posted by ACE2003

I haven't seen episode 9, but I believe that this will cause a major rift between the two and even have a more damaging mental effect on Subaru. What Nanoha was doing was kicking a person why she was down, which wasn't necessary. One blast was enough, two was overboard.

Subaru has to learn.

This is what you get should you try this is a live battle.

DISCIPLINE is a must, what do you not get that this is a military?

Originally Posted by ACE2003

Again, I don't blame Tea for wanting to go above and beyond. She was learning the basics, but also she wanted to gain a little strength for herself. She felt that the current training was doing too much, although it was helpful. I

MILITARY.

You can't just do what you want.

Originally Posted by ACE2003

believe that Nanoha's training method was somewhat safe up untill when she said F-it!! Again, you can't blame a student for wanting to acquire more knowledge. I think that she would've handled it fine. But since she wasn't given that knowledge, she had to aquire it through hardwork and a willingess to overcome her shortcomings.

That's the problem with students, they THINK they can handle it.

And when they don't/can't, who do they blame?

Who do PEOPLE blame?

Originally Posted by ACE2003

Don't misunderstand, I understand Nanoha's feelings. Nobody wants to feel like they're being ignored, I just feel that the situation itself didn't have to come to such drastic measures as this one.

Yeahhh... About that, I don't know... I tend to see the ones pulling the trigger to be the ones at fault...

... Wonder what the law thinks...?

Originally Posted by ACE2003

In any case, I'm pretty sure that most people here have watched the episode 9 raws, so I'm not sure what will happen. We all have different viewpoints on what should've, could've been done. In the end it's all about expressing our opinions on the situation. Can't wait to see episode 9 subbed!!

Oh no you don't!

You're not getting out of this one easy!

[Anh_Minh]

If Nanoha made a mistake - which is debatable - it's when she just "forgave" Teana's blunder at the hotel. She should have pursued it. Not to yell at Teana, but to make sure she understood why it was a blunder, and how not to do it again. Self-reflection is a nice idea, but sometimes, you really need someone holding a mirror. And Subaru obviously couldn't do it.

I think that, even though everyone knew about them, they underestimated Teana's self-confidence issues. I wonder how they'll repair that?

[Meophist]

If Teana believed that the training she was receiving was insufficient, her best course of action would be to talk it over with her instructor, not to train in secret.

[ACE2003]

Hmm...it seems to me that you're putting ALL of the blame on Tea and Subaru, which IMO isn't fair. Nanoha, being the experienced fighter that she was, STILL shouldn't have lost her temper, regardless of the fact that she had a gun aimed at her. She went full force, otherwise she would've put Tea in a bind like she did Subaru. I wonder why she didn't do so....that's right, To teach her a harsh lesson!! To not f with boss! To me, that part wasn't necessary. There was nothing to stop her from binding Tea and just calling it a day. When you have someone as emotional as Tea was at the point, the worse thing that you can possibly do IMO is to try and break them. She didn't do Subaru nor Tea any favors with the stunt she pulled. Nanoha's life in danger with Tea's gun?! That's funny to me. I honestly believe that Nanoha didn't think that they would go so far in order to gain strength. She underestimated them and thus the result. She ignored Tea's pleas. Yes it's team. Yes it's not an individual effort. But if a subordinate wants to improve themselves substantially, why hold them back? Teach them a little something, at least to wearas they have something to look forward to. Instead Nanoha just shrugged her off, not really caring about what her subordinate wants or is asking for which agitated her even more, especially have her mishap at the last mission.

Nanoha isn't getting a clean break from me. She fuged up. She lost her composure. She let two "rookies" get the best of her and as result caused substantial damaged not only to their physical physique, but to their mental one as well. Now if only episode 9 would hurry up!!