2010-11-08, 18:57 | Link #18561 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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I'd say he's neutral. Not neutral as in he wants to make peace with everyone. More of Shinmegami Tensei neutral where he wants to fight against everyone, punch them in the face, and force them all to get along in the end.
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2010-11-08, 19:16 | Link #18564 | |
The True Culprit
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2010-11-08, 19:20 | Link #18565 |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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Put in sound novel terms. Since Kanon is the zero on the Roullette that means he's the good end. If the Roulette hits Zero you get the gold. While all the rest of them would be numbers to bet on.
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2010-11-08, 20:18 | Link #18568 |
Kupo
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sleeping
Age: 32
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I've been spacing off a bit recently in class, somehow came back to Umineko, and came up with a distinct reason for why Kyrie and Rudolf as the culprits bothers me. Aren't they the two people that Shannon would have the most reason to dislike? The people she'd be most likely to leave open as "alternate" culprits were she trying to mask the identity of the real culprit in her game?
Now I'm not going to try and pick which parts of EP7 were "covering up" the real culprit and which were true either way (frankly, I don't care enough and I don't have time to read it again), but I think it might be worth considering that Bern found or chose only one of at least two truths in the game. The idea of multiple "truths" has been a pretty strong theme in the series, after all, and the eighth game is set to have choices. That and I really don't like the idea of all that foreshadowing for George just being a can of red herrings :P. There are a lot of instances of characters who previously seemed "bad" showing a sympathetic side in the past few episodes, and I don't like ignoring the single opposite trend. Finally, I also briefly considered some sort of non-Shkanon way of thinking where Shannon and Kanon are actually fraternal twins, but I wasn't exactly sure where to go with it so...there you go.
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2010-11-08, 20:22 | Link #18569 | |
The True Culprit
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Also, the Kyrie/Rudolf thing is stupid. We were never given any legitimate reason to suspect them up to this point, and there's only been...two instances where both of them lived past the first Twilight. That, and them being the culprit requires them to go way out of character. Suddenly they're both morons who can barely aim and are super greedy and bloodthirsty for some reason, hate their kids, and decide they're gonna do shit like beating nine year old girls to death with their fists and shit. I'm sorry, but that's retarded, and it's much too convenient that this was brought up by the most biased character in the series.
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2010-11-08, 20:28 | Link #18570 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Couple things I wanna bring up here during my adventures in Ep. 7 land.
Ange is shown to have been sick during the 1985/4/whatever conference with the VIP Room haunting. Coincidence? I don't think so. Additionally, Yasu can't be the bomber. Everyone dies in Lion-land. Therefore, even if Lion exists, the bomb goes off. The bomber is the Sumadera family. Ange is intentionally kept sick so she can inherit the Ushiromiya family headship when everyone else dies. The explosion would be blamed on the fact that it's an old military base. Those Sumadera clues had to amount for something. They don't spend SO MUCH TIME on it for nothing. The Sumaderas have Amakusa kill Ange because they worry she'll find out the truth about Rokken Island and what happened. Thoughts? Yasu's been talked to death; I'd like to hear some thoughts on something else. |
2010-11-08, 20:47 | Link #18571 | |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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I mean, maybe you can "reason" it out, if you're willing to accept the most silly prospect each step of the way. Oh, Kanon's sole purpose is to protect Shannon. Oh, Shannon and Kanon are the same for some reason. Oh, clearly they're both a single psychologically damaged person with an overactive imagination! But then why does he actually exist? Oh because of a single psychologically damaged person with an overactive imagination! Who is two people! Whose purpose is to protect herself from herself! The circular logic is just painful. Also it's pretty much "I'm crazy! And I have to be crazy and self-destructive while acting completely against my own interests, whatever those are! I basically am nothing more than an appendage to justify my own role in the story!" Give me back the real Beatrice.
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2010-11-08, 20:54 | Link #18573 |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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Well, isn't that a bit presumptuous? If we just justify everything as "Oh, they're crazy," we're basically telling Will to go sit on it and spin because all his speeches about motive are pointless in the face of crazy.
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2010-11-08, 20:56 | Link #18574 |
Artist
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Yesterday!
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Maybe that's not how it went.
Imagine if you will, that Yasu is really a guy!!! And got tired of crossdressing and that's why Kanon was created. And yeah being crazy excusing everything is the lamest excuse ever, to accept that as the reason is basically giving up in trying to figure out the reason. |
2010-11-08, 21:08 | Link #18577 |
Artist
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Yesterday!
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Well I don't know about that. I mean, yeah "Beatrice" not being the killer is still possible but I wouldn't be certain of it.
Taken in a far more narrow context it seems outright impossible for anyone else to be the culprit in arc 1, unless you start to use really ridiculous twists on logic. Although I guess one could say that "Genji" is a furniture name and thus a "role" name and the real person behind it is the killer but that doesn't make "Genji the role" a murderer. And that would remain a ridiculous twist on logic, but it's not further twisted then the whole Shkanontrice logic to begin with. |
2010-11-08, 21:17 | Link #18579 |
Artist
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Yesterday!
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Yeah it is an assumption, but I don't see any theories that even begin to make sense to point someone else as culprit. If anything someone who "died in a group" has to have faked their death in a way that was impossible to distinguish from another who died as part of the same group (unless I'm really missing something) or you have to decide that for instance every murder after twilight 1 was faked allowing anyone else to be the culprit or other such lines of thoughts, which I try to avoid.
Do you mean a mastermind or you mean a person who decides what happens with a writer level of authority? Cause if it's the later then the culprit is Ryukishi but I didn't have to read a million + words story to know that. |
2010-11-08, 21:20 | Link #18580 |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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Depends. Is the writer even in his or her own stories? Is the mastermind actually successful? Is the purpose of the individual component mysteries to finger the "true culprit?" The ep7 tea party would certainly seem to suggest the opposite, if we were willing to buy into that. You'd have some serious issues making Kyrie or Rudolf into much in ep1-4.
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