Persona 4

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by Von Himmel

I'm hoping that it won't stray too much from the original story like what they did in Trinity Soul.

Seeing as though Trinity Soul was set after Persona 3, there was no original story.

[4as]

Best news ever!
Tho it looks more like live-action movie ... but wouldnt mind that either

BTW, was this posted already?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mUTQKMRLYQ

[frubam]

Originally Posted by 4as

BTW, was this posted already?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mUTQKMRLYQ

Hahaha, that was HILARIOUS ! Many of the voices sounded close to the originals too.

[TsundereCake]

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF I'm going to be at school when the countdown reaches zero!! D:

[SidVicious]

Check the dial on the TV

edit: http://www.p4a.jp/

[Malkuth]

Great promo animation indeed, but sarcasm aside, it is a good sign, despite me looking forward to the date-sim and plot rather than lame action that eats away budgets, turning anime to video-clips or promo videos that have 20 minutes non-sense accompanying them

In any case, got P3P, and was horrified at the fact that they had no Japanese track... yeah I know niche market, etc. But is that market that made NIS games a success in the West

I hope they won't do the same with P4, in a possible future, since I'd really like to replay it, and can't suffer wash-out american actors again, had enough German ones for six years

PS: Stop bitching about Naoto, there is no way in Hell that she won't appear with two cours!

[TJR]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

In any case, got P3P, and was horrified at the fact that they had no Japanese track... yeah I know niche market, etc. But is that market that made NIS games a success in the West

I hope they won't do the same with P4, in a possible future, since I'd really like to replay it, and can't suffer wash-out american actors again, had enough German ones for six years

Atlus USA policy, apparently. I've heard that some of their staff were even insulted by the idea that players might want to listen to the original tracks instead of their dubs.

Unless there's a changing of guard, I wouldn't bet on finding both English and Japanese voiceovers on future releases.

[OceanBlue]

Originally Posted by TJR

Atlus USA policy, apparently. I've heard that some of their staff were even insulted by the idea that players might want to listen to the original tracks instead of their dubs.

That's surprising, or a somewhat poor gauge of some of their consumer base.

[Malkuth]

Originally Posted by TJR

Atlus USA policy, apparently. I've heard that some of their staff were even insulted by the idea that players might want to listen to the original tracks instead of their dubs.

Originally Posted by OceanBlue

That's surprising, or a somewhat poor gauge of some of their consumer base.

I had no idea that their american arm had so ignorant and feisty staff members. In any case, more of a reason to improve my japanese, and unlike NIS Atlus can survive loosing another customer, since apparently their target audience is... oh! well, I think I should stop here this time

[Yuutsu]

Originally Posted by TJR

I've heard that some of their staff were even insulted by the idea that players might want to listen to the original tracks instead of their dubs.

Until I see proof, I won't believe hearsay or groundless rumours such as these.

If, in the unfortunate scenario where it is indeed true, then I am saddened by those particular "staff". The first step towards building a rapport between the company and its customers is to understand the needs of the customer. Being "offended" by what the customers want is just... the completely wrong way of going about it.

And this is coming from someone who genuinely liked the P4 dub. One can only imagine how irate those who don't share the same sentiment must be.

But I'm not gonna condemn an entire company based on the beliefs of a few of its employees.

Edit: On second thought, I didn't consider the potential difficulties that can occur when securing the rights to use the work of voice actors from Japan. Kara no Shoujo comes to mind. Perhaps the companies that the voice actors are affiliated with have unreasonable demands or maybe the voice actors themselves simply don't want their work to be re-used. Persona 4 does have some relatively big-name seiyuus like Rie and the guy who voiced L.

[SilverSyko]

Does it matter if it has a Japanese voice track? Americans do not speak Japanese nor can the majority understand it, so there's no reason to include a Japanese voice track in a American localized version of a game. That's pretty legit reason for them NOT to include one ya think?

I can't say the company being insulted about customers dis-satisfaction is a good reaction, but customers being unappreciative of the effort that most likely goes into dubbing these localizations isn't a good reaction either.

P4's dub is not amazing, but it's definitely above-average. In fact I find it weird to hear the characters speaking in Japanese now since I'm so used to the English dub. I will admit using the honorifics (san, tan, chan, kun, senpai) with the English language was kind of silly but at least they didn't push it too far. Not to mention sometimes Japanese jokes and references are very difficult for a foreigner to appreciate and find funny.

In the end, I don't see the lack of a Japanese voice track as a legit reason to snub a dubbed game or the company who localized it. I'd hope most other people would think this way as well.

[TJR]

Originally Posted by Yuutsu

Until I see proof, I won't believe hearsay or groundless rumours such as these.

Yeah, I've been trying to verify the claims I've heard. Seems that they're particularly upset when people are going out of their way to distribute and play (even if they've legally purchased an English copy already) "undub" versions of their games.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...postcount=3069

Originally Posted by NichM

They hurt our feelings, for one.

Originally Posted by NichM

We worked really hard to make sure P4's dub would be better than P3's--I personally think we did a pretty good job--and people like him (and you, saying you're "improving your experience" by stripping out a major part of the localization) just assume it's 1996-era garbage without ever giving it a chance. There are parts in the finished product of P4 where I laughed out loud not because of the text onscreen, but because the VA nailed the line so perfectly. When you play the undub, you turn up your nose at all that.

Re: Catherine, on whether Japanese voiceovers allow for an authentic playing experience:

Originally Posted by NichM

Catherine is not one of these games. It's set in America.

Nich Maragos claims that Atlus USA isn't opposed to including Japanese voiceovers when the conditions are right (i.e. Riviera PSP, Odin Sphere). However, I suppose licensing fees are involved, and they aren't going to go out of their way to pay more than the bare minimum when they see the English dub as the correct way to play their games.

[RRW]

wow never knew Dub only/Dub+Sub matter is that complicated.

but isn't that original disgaea which atlus published it have Dub+Sub option?

[zeniselv]

if that was the issue the persona games would rather be in japanese, than havin the weirdness of ppl speaking english with -san,-kun,-chan included, i think the dub allow to catch ppl ot of the niche who mostly prefer english, i in the other hand prefer things in their oroginal lenguage, afterall no matter how good a dub actor is, is not going to be the lvl of the original, and me beign from southamerica that includes watching tv series and movies in the original english.

[Yuutsu]

Originally Posted by SilverSyko

Does it matter if it has a Japanese voice track? That's pretty legit reason for them NOT to include one ya think?

I agree partly with your opinion. After all, we probably live in a location where English is the predominant language; most of the customers who buy Atlus USA products (or any localized product) probably don't understand the original language -- hence the reliance on localizations.

The part where I disagree is the one where you argue that a Japanese track is unnecessary. Well, I'm not so much arguing the 'necessity' of having the original voices as I am arguing that, given the sheer amount of data we can hold now Blu-ray and dual-layer DVDs, it should be fairly easy to include more than 1 language. I mean, P4 was stuffed to the brim with data that it simply couldn't hold the original dub, so I can understand there being no subs.

However, that is simply not true for current-gen games (I'm not too familiar with Wii discs). As a result, why not make (some) of you fans happy by giving them a choice?

This IS, of course, assuming that actually obtaining the rights to use the original voices are fairly simple (which it sometimes is not).

Originally Posted by SilverSyko

I can't say the company being insulted about customers dis-satisfaction is a good reaction, but customers being unappreciative of the effort that most likely goes into dubbing these localizations isn't a good reaction either.

Agreed, but a person who dislikes a dub is not necessarily a person who shuns the efforts put into creating that dub. It's dangerous to paint such a broad stroke on people who wish to have a certain feature that I don't think is all that unreasonable.

I don't necessarily have a preference for subs or dubs, but I find myself consuming the vast majority of Japanese products in their original language. I often judge based on how well I think the voice actors fit the characters and how well they express the emotions of the characters and bring them to life. In that respect, I don't think many people are going to argue that the fact that voice-acting is such a prominent and viable business in Japan, that it does not have a greater pool of talent to draw upon. More variety often leads to more natural sounding characters and seasoned talent means not having to worry about how natural the delivery of the lines are.

When listening to dubs, I often get drawn out of the experience when I suddenly listen to character whose voice actor was clearly an afterthought or an extra. Or when a person has to deliver an unnatural-sounding series of lines to match the mouth-movements of the character on-screen.

That said, there could be times where I simply just do NOT like a voice. I can think of Allison and Lillia, for one. The boy sounds WAY too effeminate for my tastes. Yes, I understand that, in the grand scheme of things, it is a petty concern.... However, when it aggravates me to the point where I can't just simply sit down and enjoy the anime, then it doesn't seem so petty to me.

I guess, what I'm trying to say is that offering the customer MORE choice as opposed to LESS is never a bad idea.

Originally Posted by SilverSyko

In the end, I don't see the lack of a Japanese voice track as a legit reason to snub a dubbed game or the company who localized it. I'd hope most other people would think this way as well.

Amen.

[OceanBlue]

Originally Posted by SilverSyko

Does it matter if it has a Japanese voice track? Americans do not speak Japanese nor can the majority understand it, so there's no reason to include a Japanese voice track in a American localized version of a game. That's pretty legit reason for them NOT to include one ya think?

I wouldn't say so. That reasoning basically follows along the lines of, "You don't know what you really want. I know what's best for you." It doesn't matter why people want something. There's no reason, for example, for some of the more overt Japanese references in the game since there will be a large amount of people who won't understand them, as you've mentioned before, but they included that regardless. They included references to Japanese foods that the average consumer will never understand. It's obvious that Atlus USA is not keeping the Japanese dub from the release because people won't understand it. The whole point is that Atlus USA is disregarding what a portion of their consumer base wants.

Originally Posted by SilverSyko

I can't say the company being insulted about customers dis-satisfaction is a good reaction, but customers being unappreciative of the effort that most likely goes into dubbing these localizations isn't a good reaction either.

I'm not going to say that it was a great reaction, but it was a logical reaction. If people want to listen to the Japanese dub, why would they force themselves to play through the English dub just to show gratitude when they can play the undub?

Originally Posted by SilverSyko

P4's dub is not amazing, but it's definitely above-average. In fact I find it weird to hear the characters speaking in Japanese now since I'm so used to the English dub. I will admit using the honorifics (san, tan, chan, kun, senpai) with the English language was kind of silly but at least they didn't push it too far. Not to mention sometimes Japanese jokes and references are very difficult for a foreigner to appreciate and find funny.

In the end, I don't see the lack of a Japanese voice track as a legit reason to snub a dubbed game or the company who localized it. I'd hope most other people would think this way as well.

I don't think anyone's snubbing the game. I think that P4 had a great dub and I agree that I'll find the Japanese weird once I start watching the anime. I'm just saying that Atlus USA is not taking the issue very well. Dismissing the people wanting a Japanese track as being people who don't appreciate the hard work they put into the game is ridiculous. You can't sway personal preferences with ideas like that.

I'm appreciative of the hard work they put into the dub since I found it stellar. That being said, I also recognize that there are many people who just prefer Japanese voices for one reason or another. For example, I understand that a lot of work was put into the English dub for FFXIII and that it's a good dub. That doesn't change the fact that I'm a huge fan of Maaya Sakamoto, I'm a fan of Ono Daisuke, I'd prefer to hear Yukari Fukui over whoever they have for Vanille, and I prefer Kimi ga Iru Kara over My Hands. They need to recognize that there is a part of their consumer base that wants a Japanese language option and that having choices is not a bad thing.

Well, they don't need to, since their games will sell regardless. Being starved of JRPGs in America is sad.

[Malkuth]

[RANT mode ON]About the dub/sub, first of all the majority of humans, do NOT live in a region where English is the predominant language, I was six years in Germany and trust me when I say that English speakers will go nuts when they watch (or better listen to) the first German dubbed Hollywood film... at best its funny, at worst they mess up the plot. Germany and the states are just examples, the problem is prevalent in all countries that have a large enough consumer base, including Japan.

Which brings me to the second point, art is to be preserved in its original form, dubbing is equivalent to redrawing Picasso, or Dali in order to make it comprehensible to the uneducated masses, instead of writing an essay or pin some notes next to the drawing. Even better hire a new singer for the translated lyrics to make it accessible.

The problem is that the companies do not treat films, TV shows, anime, games, comics, music, and even porn as art, but rather as cheap use-once, hopefully milk-out commercial products... not very different from cigarettes or washing powder. That's one of the main reason popular products are quality-wise crap (there are exceptions).

As for how complicated it is to include dub and subs in the same release, technically it is trivial and subs are way cheaper than dubs to produce (not even counting the actor salaries, which are minimal since they usually pick washout). And if your console is hacked, it is also easy to swap the audio tracks, did so for P4, probably P3, I don't really remember.

The problem lies with the leeches (managers, lawyers, agents, promoters, distributors, etc.) that bleed out money in between geeky technicians, naive artists, and redneck customers blowing the price to unimaginable heights compared to its cost, and all this without doing anything productive... I think they had a term in economics for this, but I can not remember... the funny thing is that this process is considered the best!?!?![RANT mode OFF]

PS: Crap! we got dumped into the game thread... without a sub-forum it's impossible to have a generic franchise discussion.

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

without a sub-forum it's impossible to have a generic franchise discussion.

It's hardly a franchise discussion. The conversation that you guys are having is about dub/sub in the game, and that has nothing to do with the anime.

As for my opinion, i just don't like dubs. Did it stop me playing P4? Hell no.

[Elvin]

Loved the P4 english cast. After playing P4 I've considered the possibility that I like whichever audio I get used to first. I cringed when I heard Kappei Yamaguchi's teddy after beating the game with Dave Wittenberg's teddy, and everyone else sounded kind of bland in japanese despite the normally awsome big names in the cast.

For any dub haters out there, consider taking the plunge and listening to the english version first before being exposed the japanese version. What you thought was a lower quality dub may very well be psychological conditioning.

[Zoel]

I play through both version of P4 to go through over minor details trying to compile a guide. In the end I love the voice of both versions. Of course I play the Japanese version first, and comparing with the english version they did one heck of a job. I do hate 2 character's voice in the Japanese version and 3 voices in the english dub because I find them inferior to the japanese counter part.

My main issue with the japanese version was the fact with Teddy, he was extremely annoying and his voice felt extremely forced, Kappei Yamaguchi was trying to hard to sound young. Then the voice i probably hated the most was Rise in the japanese dub. I think Rie Kugimiya was a complete miscast for the role while the english version was completely spot on.


Anyways, anyone exicted for the Persona 4 fighting game?


http://www.famitsu.com/news/201109/01049309.html