GATE - Episode 21 Discussion / Poll

[FlareKnight]

The journalist sure was an over the top caricature. The media I agree does tend to focus on negatives. Though I think it's in part related to society in general. People are pretty quick to nitpick the heck out of things or focus on the negatives instead of the positives. And in the end the media is filled with people....so that'll happen. I'm sure there are plenty of good people in it though.

Looks like it is the end of the half-in half-out measures. Time to take some darn action. Not sure what is up with the idea that they don't have the manpower to take over the Empire. You should have enough bullets for each of the soldiers...

The whole Gate thing makes me think of the show Stargate. One country left handling this doorway to other worlds and resources. Didn't think in that show either that the world would hesitate so much to put serious pressure on a nation hoarding that kind of access.

In the end I think Japan should just get going on this. Where was the whole hesitation when you beat up the Prince, slaughtered the soldiers, saved the girl and blew up the Senate? What, now we're back to playing politics? They went far enough to use that kind of intimidation tactics, but held back and now this kind of situation has unfolded. They basically blackmailed people into being Doves by holding their family members as bargaining chips. Get in or get out.

Props to Sherry. That girl continues to just impress with her stance and maturity here. I didn't think much of her in the first part when she was just this nice little girl who had a crush on Sugawara. But can see here that her maturity is through the roof. She knew going in that if everything went as she hoped that this kind of battle would be fought. She knew that, but it was still the only route she had. Some nice words given to Sugawara. In the end it's about the sins he could live with. He would have regretted without measure letting Sherry be taken. This is still a bad situation, but it is one he can at least live with. (Well presuming they get out of there alive.)

The funny thing is that it doesn't seem like long term there is a huge issue. Apparently the Gate vanishes in time and is focused on that world, not Earth. It should just close at some point in the near future and be shut for a long time. What happens in this world is going to be out of Japan's hands after a while.

[thundrakkon]

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Originally Posted by FlareKnight

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This part really makes me wonder. What will happen to the people left behind after the Gate closes? They don't have an endless supply of weapons and parts for their vehicles. Unless they establish manufacturing plants and fuel processing facilities quickly, the weapons and technologies will become weakened over time. The JSDF forces then would need to rely on whatever government that is willing to take them in.

Of course, if the Gate remains open for a few years and all these manufacturing plants open up, then it is still possible to maintain the same level of power.

[SakurazukaJames]

Geez, all the that reporter guy needed was a twirly moustache. Can there one person who isn't pro-JSDF and not be cartoon villain?

[Metaneo]

Originally Posted by rladls2121

Like how I criticized the SDF.
Im actually wrong for judging it.
I have no right to decide its future after all.

They weren't trying to show that it's wrong to criticize the SDF, but rather that you cant judge what's going on from the outside. The journalist called SDF lazy and wasting tax dollars because he saw a bunch sitting around. What he didn't know was that these soldiers were on stand by, awaiting further orders.

Criticism isn't wrong, its actually useful when used properly. But many military and para-military organizations take a ton of undue flak because journalists and the media either don't have a proper understanding of what's going on, don't care about what's going on, or just want to further their own careers.

And yes, I know all about the author's extreme right wing views, I'm not blind. Not all journalists are evil people out to further their own careers. Incidences in military organizations should be investigated all the time, but just because the author is extreme, doesn't mean he's always wrong

Originally Posted by rladls2121

The Journalist speaking of how the relations between the Special Region and SDF actually are, depending on people's answers in Alnus, most topics are going to be about daily lives, not some big incidents.
Just imagine the answer coming from Delilah's life in Alnus, how story ended up to fight against Yanagida and that is rather going to be the most interesting topic though.

Delilah was enjoying her life in Alnus, her response would be the same as everyone else. And you should also mention of how people in the special region would respond if the journalists mention the name "Itami."

[rladls2121]

^
Yes as you said, and I was rating the SDF knowing too little of it, based on past and current event news and other people's statements whether they are actually believable or not.
I was actually having fun with the blame games.
I was saying something like "This series is one of the ways that convince people SDF looks like they are the side of justice!!!", something like that.
Bringing up sensitive topics like WW2 to play around with the hates, the one previous episode in this series that Rory telling a female Diet politician an idiot for "something"(I don't remember quite well) to bring havocs.
I'm also not always right about my view of the series and every other things either.

About the Delilah's part, that's why it is going to be interesting story.
She was enjoying her life in Alnus while she was actually also spying the places until her country's leader, Tyuule orderd her the assassination on Noriko, the ordinary people in Alnus knew of Delilah's undercover activities, but not immediately reported to the SDF which might have prevented the incident, then how the SDF officer was cool with the ordinary people knew of Delilah's movements in Alnus and decides to let it go.
Now I wonder how the journalist will write the story after her interviewed Delilah and how the article will be edited and posted throughout the worlds, I meant both Special and the modern world.

[thundrakkon]

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Originally Posted by rladls2121

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Once again, let's straighten out the facts about Tyuule. She is not beloved by her people. Delilah hates her and wants to kill her. Delilah is a maid that belongs to the Formar family of Italica city.

Tyuule ordered Bouro, the green pig guy, to manipulate Delilah and frame Pina. Bouro had his men in Italica bribe the Formar family's butler, Bartholomew, to forge the Formar seal, which gave the false order to Delilah. Delilah was following a fake order from Bartholomew, believing that it was the order of the Formar family, but in reality, the Formar family never gave Delilah those orders.

In summary, Delilah is a maid and spy for the Formar family, who has connections with Pina. Delilah and Tyuule are enemies that hate each other. Delilah will only follow the Formar family's order, and she will not obey Tyuule ever.

[rladls2121]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

Once again, let's straighten out the facts about Tyuule. She is not beloved by her people. Delilah hates her and wants to kill her. Delilah is a maid that belongs to the Formar family of Italica city.

Tyuule ordered Bouro, the green pig guy, to manipulate Delilah and frame Pina. Bouro had his men in Italica bribe the Formar family's butler, Bartholomew, to forge the Formar seal, which gave the false order to Delilah. Delilah was following a fake order from Bartholomew, believing that it was the order of the Formar family, but in reality, the Formar family never gave Delilah those orders.

In summary, Delilah is a maid and spy for the Formar family, who has connections with Pina. Delilah and Tyuule are enemies that hate each other. Delilah will only follow the Formar family's order, and she will not obey Tyuule ever.

Oh, ok thanks for the correction.
My head hurts.

Once again, this is going to be the interesting story that journalist from this episode might write, but I wonder?
How will the journalist make changes in this story then?

In a way Noriko's situation was similar to Tyuule.
Tyuule's reasons for revenge on the Empire was, kind of a long story.
Noriko was kidnapped by the Empire soldiers before lot of people in Ginza were killed by the Empire soldiers.
After being saved by the SDF and sent to Alnus, she was thinking of committing suicide and that was before her learning her family were killed in Ginza because of Empire's invasion.
Noriko in the episode hinting hopes for her, but Tyuule is still not.
If only Noriko told Delilah more about Tyuule at the moment.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

So. A cartoonishly evil villain of journalist, because of course, and an army so pure it doesn't have its own propaganda arm and is therefore completely at the mercy of outside forces when it comes to PR.



Yeah, it's rather funny they don't seem to consider the negative backlash of the Jade palace getting overrun.

While I agree with you, keep in mind that Japanese media is NOTORIOUS for this.
Hell I've even seen them criticize JSDF for deploying to help victims of volcano activity claiming that "military presence is excessive and cause unnecessary fear" despite them being entirely unarmed, and the only units geared with necessary equipment for disaster rescue of that magnitude.

There are reporters that spins narrative so ridiculously to make any and all JSDF activity as negative. And this has been going on for decades, despite the organization being entirely free of any negative war involvement.

[Metaneo]

Originally Posted by aohige

While I agree with you, keep in mind that Japanese media is NOTORIOUS for this.
Hell I've even seen them criticize JSDF for deploying to help victims of volcano activity claiming that "military presence is excessive and cause unnecessary fear" despite them being entirely unarmed, and the only units geared with necessary equipment for disaster rescue of that magnitude.

There are reporters that spins narrative so ridiculously to make any and all JSDF activity as negative. And this has been going on for decades, despite the organization being entirely free of any negative war involvement.

Yup, 2 sides to everything. Not all journalists are evil; this one, though probably not evil, is probably below what I would consider a good person. Kuriyabashi's sister on the other hand, is also a reporter/journalist/part of the media, whatever she is, yet she's not portrayed this way, even in spite their sisterly rivalry.

Though admittedly, the JSDF has come across as spotless and 100% competent, while this is highly unlikely to occur in reality, it's a nice break from the normal portrayal of government run/owned forces being down right stupid or even harmful to the plot.

I wouldn't mind seeing something negative, but I'm okay with how things are.

[jasper222]

I'm just impressed there's not someone who's pulled the strawman card yet in this thread. Very good.

[cloud04]

im curious, where did lelei's sis go, i dont have seen her, i mean last epi she was w/ them in the jeep iirc

[Brother Coa]

Originally Posted by cloud04

im curious, where did lelei's sis go, i dont have seen her, i mean last epi she was w/ them in the jeep iirc

She is probably in main univerity building. I think.
Her sister is to make her master presentation there after all.
Somebody needs to take care of preparations for her presentation.

[Faux Mecha]

so having a Chuunibyou history makes you vulnerable against influence that forces you to do crime? what does that supposed to mean?

[MrTerrorist]

Ahhh politics.
Making things worse.
So Zorzal is making his sister a slave?!
I never knew he would go this low.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

The journalist sure was an over the top caricature. The media I agree does tend to focus on negatives. Though I think it's in part related to society in general. People are pretty quick to nitpick the heck out of things or focus on the negatives instead of the positives. And in the end the media is filled with people....so that'll happen. I'm sure there are plenty of good people in it though.

Looks like it is the end of the half-in half-out measures. Time to take some darn action. Not sure what is up with the idea that they don't have the manpower to take over the Empire. You should have enough bullets for each of the soldiers...

The whole Gate thing makes me think of the show Stargate. One country left handling this doorway to other worlds and resources. Didn't think in that show either that the world would hesitate so much to put serious pressure on a nation hoarding that kind of access.

In the end I think Japan should just get going on this. Where was the whole hesitation when you beat up the Prince, slaughtered the soldiers, saved the girl and blew up the Senate? What, now we're back to playing politics? They went far enough to use that kind of intimidation tactics, but held back and now this kind of situation has unfolded. They basically blackmailed people into being Doves by holding their family members as bargaining chips. Get in or get out.

Props to Sherry. That girl continues to just impress with her stance and maturity here. I didn't think much of her in the first part when she was just this nice little girl who had a crush on Sugawara. But can see here that her maturity is through the roof. She knew going in that if everything went as she hoped that this kind of battle would be fought. She knew that, but it was still the only route she had. Some nice words given to Sugawara. In the end it's about the sins he could live with. He would have regretted without measure letting Sherry be taken. This is still a bad situation, but it is one he can at least live with. (Well presuming they get out of there alive.)

The funny thing is that it doesn't seem like long term there is a huge issue. Apparently the Gate vanishes in time and is focused on that world, not Earth. It should just close at some point in the near future and be shut for a long time. What happens in this world is going to be out of Japan's hands after a while.

The PM explained in his conference with the other ministers that the reason they don't just "get on with it" is because they don't have enough resources. They're probably using up a lot of resources already setting up all of this, but conquering and controlling an entire large country, and then controlling it well enough and long enough to stabilize the changed government, is a very costly thing. If they have enough time to start collecting minerals and other raw materials from the region, they should be able to amass financial resources necessary, leaving mainly the question of human resources, and they're doing a fair job creating potential resources on the other side.

As for the Gate's duration, it doesn't sound like it's just open for a couple months. Its duration may be uncertain, but the empire at least thought that it would stay open or could be kept open long enough to make conquest worth their while. Not to mention that the Gate apparently stayed open long enough for new races to establish themselves on their side, meaning that they had to at least have a village's worth of people. I'd say that it likely stays open for a long time at each spot. All that said, I wouldn't be surprised if it closed eventually. I could see this happening and then Itami being made the new king or "emperor" of the land. By the time it closes, either Japan would have effective control or they would have a sizable region that's basically theirs. This is almost inevitable due to the incredible difference in power; they themselves recognized that the balance is so off that "peace talks" currently amount to little more than surrender. They'd need a leader, and Itami's gotten himself incredible wealth, noble status in multiple kingdoms, respect from high-ranking officials in all these kingdoms, fame with the people, and comrades that could and readily would take out anyone who tried to hurt him with ease. And once his power's established this band of comrades would turn into his own personal harem.

Also, concerning the Chuunibyou thing, clearly the author has little exposure and less respect for such people, but the point does hold: if you are that eager to believe absurd stories just to make things interesting, preferring a fantasy melodrama to obvious reality, then you WOULD be easy to manipulate. You already want a different reality to believe in, so the manipulator just has to come up with a "reality" that you'd find "cool" enough.

[nojay]

I'm surprised no-one noticed the great similarity between the assassination attempt at the hotel in Rondel and this scene from The Lord of the Rings...

Spoiler for Youtube video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTthEbYCYN8

[quigonkenny]

Originally Posted by nojay

I'm surprised no-one noticed the great similarity between the assassination attempt at the hotel in Rondel and this scene from The Lord of the Rings...

Spoiler for Youtube video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTthEbYCYN8

In fairness, the "sneak in in the middle of the night and stab the people who are(n't) sleeping there" trope was hardly invented by LOTR...

[FlareKnight]

Now that I think about it, while the scene with buying the map was comical...was that a good idea? Aren't other nations going to get pissed off that Japan is actively hindering them even getting a decent map of the region?

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

The PM explained in his conference with the other ministers that the reason they don't just "get on with it" is because they don't have enough resources. They're probably using up a lot of resources already setting up all of this, but conquering and controlling an entire large country, and then controlling it well enough and long enough to stabilize the changed government, is a very costly thing. If they have enough time to start collecting minerals and other raw materials from the region, they should be able to amass financial resources necessary, leaving mainly the question of human resources, and they're doing a fair job creating potential resources on the other side.

As for the Gate's duration, it doesn't sound like it's just open for a couple months. Its duration may be uncertain, but the empire at least thought that it would stay open or could be kept open long enough to make conquest worth their while. Not to mention that the Gate apparently stayed open long enough for new races to establish themselves on their side, meaning that they had to at least have a village's worth of people. I'd say that it likely stays open for a long time at each spot. All that said, I wouldn't be surprised if it closed eventually. I could see this happening and then Itami being made the new king or "emperor" of the land. By the time it closes, either Japan would have effective control or they would have a sizable region that's basically theirs. This is almost inevitable due to the incredible difference in power; they themselves recognized that the balance is so off that "peace talks" currently amount to little more than surrender. They'd need a leader, and Itami's gotten himself incredible wealth, noble status in multiple kingdoms, respect from high-ranking officials in all these kingdoms, fame with the people, and comrades that could and readily would take out anyone who tried to hurt him with ease. And once his power's established this band of comrades would turn into his own personal harem.

Also, concerning the Chuunibyou thing, clearly the author has little exposure and less respect for such people, but the point does hold: if you are that eager to believe absurd stories just to make things interesting, preferring a fantasy melodrama to obvious reality, then you WOULD be easy to manipulate. You already want a different reality to believe in, so the manipulator just has to come up with a "reality" that you'd find "cool" enough.

Not sure if I buy the chuunibyou thing. Someone locked into their own fantasy I'm not sure would be easier to trick. That's just one attribute of a person. There could and should be other people who have nothing to do with that, that remain easier to manipulate. Regardless I didn't really see a big issue with that scene, other than it being a bit odd to use that term there. Doesn't really flow very well with the topic.

And to be fair I don't think the Empire's information is all that important. They probably don't have a clue what the Gate is or how it functions. Looking at the people in charge...I doubt they have the historical records of how long that Gate remains open. Though to be sure there was no specifics given on the time period. But it does seem to be far less than the amount of time it remains inactive. Maybe you get a few years out of that Gate, but probably not a century.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Now that I think about it, while the scene with buying the map was comical...was that a good idea? Aren't other nations going to get pissed off that Japan is actively hindering them even getting a decent map of the region?
Not sure if I buy the chuunibyou thing. Someone locked into their own fantasy I'm not sure would be easier to trick. That's just one attribute of a person. There could and should be other people who have nothing to do with that, that remain easier to manipulate. Regardless I didn't really see a big issue with that scene, other than it being a bit odd to use that term there. Doesn't really flow very well with the topic.

And to be fair I don't think the Empire's information is all that important. They probably don't have a clue what the Gate is or how it functions. Looking at the people in charge...I doubt they have the historical records of how long that Gate remains open. Though to be sure there was no specifics given on the time period. But it does seem to be far less than the amount of time it remains inactive. Maybe you get a few years out of that Gate, but probably not a century.

Yeah, it almost sounds like he's got an axe to grind with Chuunibyous... which sounds rather odd for a man writing about a guy going to a parallel world where he acquires a harem with two elves, a loli-ish demi-goddess, and a loli-ish magician.

[quigonkenny]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Now that I think about it, while the scene with buying the map was comical...was that a good idea? Aren't other nations going to get pissed off that Japan is actively hindering them even getting a decent map of the region?
Not sure if I buy the chuunibyou thing. Someone locked into their own fantasy I'm not sure would be easier to trick. That's just one attribute of a person. There could and should be other people who have nothing to do with that, that remain easier to manipulate. Regardless I didn't really see a big issue with that scene, other than it being a bit odd to use that term there. Doesn't really flow very well with the topics.

I don't think that Pied Piper so much manuipulates the chuunibyou themselves as he co-opts their fantasy. If someone is "locked into their own fantasy", then all PP has to do to convince them to do something is present it in such a way that it fits or bolsters their fantasy. It validates the target's preconceptions, which is a time-honored method of manipulation. Chuunibyou just allows a more readily apparent "in", one that often can be detected by simple observation.