(L) Freezing [Manga]

[surerman]

Originally Posted by shaselai

Spoiler for spoiler 64-65:

There's a board meeting where people are discussing the Mark IV project and how it is bad for the morale and how even researchers are questioning it. The head guy said to only release positive results and start another experiment in 2 weeks (finding new candidate). Andre is discussing why Elizabeth is taking such a big risk releasing info to her family company Mably especially almost everyone is supporting the E pandora experiment and she says it is her Noblesse Oblige code which basically mean "protect the weak". Then we see another board meeting of Elizabeth's dad discussing how they should approach this. Basically many people are against it because it could mean the downfall of the company but the dad said Elizabeth is following the family code Nblesse Oblige and if he betrays her trust then he is not a good father etc. so he contacted an US official about it and the official is very surprised such inhumane experiments exist and is surprised Elizabeth is the one who leaked it.



AFTER Elizabeth betrayed the organization and is against the Mk IV and spread the secrets to the world and the top brass called her in to question her. She said how she is against something that has a fatal side effect and he told her she has no place to make these decisions. Elizabeth then gets to be taken away. We then see the main headquarters for Mably in US where apparently the investigation on the Pandora E project resulted in no problems at all. The boss was very surprised because he never heard there was an investigation and we know the US official that was contacted before resigned... Then we see Elizabeth put on a chair and got electric shocked (peeing on the chair too....-_-). She was shocked on her breasts and head and after 20 mins the torturer suggested to stop or else irreparable damages could occur and the boss said to keep going since Pandora is "tough" and they should only follow orders anyway. After 3 days she got released and very freightened when seeing andre and the gang.We then hear that the family company Elizabeth is from Mably is being investigated for corruption and strikes going around because of its actions - basically a plot against Mably.

So i guess the morale of the story is not even the second strongest is safe and is it really worth risking an entire company for an honor code Noblesse Oblige????

hahahaha strength isn't enough to survive on this planet you know, especially in their chaotic world. A brain like Lelouch also needed. Why do you think Dinosaurs extinct? it's because they rely to brute strength and forgot to develop their brain

Let's see...to solve this problem the PANDORA like Elizabeth must fight some NOVA and lure it to the higher ranks office, then use it as a threat.
PANDORA:
"Watch out, if you didn't agree with me then I'll leave this fella here to play tag with you"
NOVA: *nod nod*

Originally Posted by germanturkey

sigh. the bad taste is starting to appear.

is this for me? since it directly below my post
if it is.......... then...THANK YOU ehehehehe

[ShiroiRyu]

Wowowow ...
About the chapter 64-65, they are Flashbacks ... or what that occured actually ? Oo

Spoiler for 64-65:

For the peeing thing, that don't disturb me.
In reality, torture like that can produce that ...

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by shaselai

Spoiler for spoiler 64-65:

There's a board meeting where people are discussing the Mark IV project and how it is bad for the morale and how even researchers are questioning it. The head guy said to only release positive results and start another experiment in 2 weeks (finding new candidate). Andre is discussing why Elizabeth is taking such a big risk releasing info to her family company Mably especially almost everyone is supporting the E pandora experiment and she says it is her Noblesse Oblige code which basically mean "protect the weak". Then we see another board meeting of Elizabeth's dad discussing how they should approach this. Basically many people are against it because it could mean the downfall of the company but the dad said Elizabeth is following the family code Nblesse Oblige and if he betrays her trust then he is not a good father etc. so he contacted an US official about it and the official is very surprised such inhumane experiments exist and is surprised Elizabeth is the one who leaked it.



AFTER Elizabeth betrayed the organization and is against the Mk IV and spread the secrets to the world and the top brass called her in to question her. She said how she is against something that has a fatal side effect and he told her she has no place to make these decisions. Elizabeth then gets to be taken away. We then see the main headquarters for Mably in US where apparently the investigation on the Pandora E project resulted in no problems at all. The boss was very surprised because he never heard there was an investigation and we know the US official that was contacted before resigned... Then we see Elizabeth put on a chair and got electric shocked (peeing on the chair too....-_-). She was shocked on her breasts and head and after 20 mins the torturer suggested to stop or else irreparable damages could occur and the boss said to keep going since Pandora is "tough" and they should only follow orders anyway. After 3 days she got released and very freightened when seeing andre and the gang.We then hear that the family company Elizabeth is from Mably is being investigated for corruption and strikes going around because of its actions - basically a plot against Mably.

So i guess the morale of the story is not even the second strongest is safe and is it really worth risking an entire company for an honor code Noblesse Oblige????

i think the mangaka has gotten it wrong

Giant Corporation >>>> Politicians >> Military

[vg166]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

i think the mangaka has gotten it wrong

Corruption comes in many forms. And we don't know exactly where the story is heading. The old saying about good intentions paving the road to a certain place comes to mind.

If anything the people running the organization feel more like the Politburo.

Spoiler for Chapter 64-65:

The guys at the top really don't like being end-runned. Elizabeth pays the price for being the leaker - if you are willing to break the code than you have to be willing to pay the price. It looks like they did a pretty good job shattering her mind, which is bad all around because she was developing into a sympathetic character.

Andre seems to do what is standard behavior from good Limiters - he's ready to go along with his Pandora even if that means riding into Hell together.

The way the Chevaliers are black-balling the Mably's isn't surprising if the regular folks think the Mably's are trying to hurt the only defense the world has from the Novas. When you got a nightmare like that coming, a person would be pissed at anyone trying to damage the only defense anyone has against the nightmare. It's not fair but life is like that.

I stand by my prediction that a real Nova attack will hit the Alaska base in a few chapters. The story is just getting darker and darker.

[blitz1/2]

YOu never know, an order 66 can be made anytime now, if they perfect the E-pandoras.

[hoarfrost]

Why does everything this guy writes descend into something that seems ripped from a D-list hentai? It wouldn't matter if he showed those leanings to begin with but I'm tired of it jumping out at you. If he didn't work with such a kickass illustrator I really wouldn't read his stuff.

[Yorae_paladin1]

Originally Posted by surerman

hahahaha strength isn't enough to survive on this planet you know, especially in their chaotic world. A brain like Lelouch also needed. Why do you think Dinosaurs extinct? it's because they rely to brute strength and forgot to develop their brain

Let's see...to solve this problem the PANDORA like Elizabeth must fight some NOVA and lure it to the higher ranks office, then use it as a threat.
PANDORA:
"Watch out, if you didn't agree with me then I'll leave this fella here to play tag with you"
NOVA: *nod nod*



is this for me? since it directly below my post
if it is.......... then...THANK YOU ehehehehe

Not true only reason we are not meat kible for dinos is cause a nice little meteor wiped them out made the climate impossible to adapt etc even if the dinos were intelligent they still would have died off humans got lucky pretty much.

As for Elizabeth unleashing a NOVA on the brass not happening if she is accused of treason things could go very bad for her and her family i doubt she will go that far unless she wants to lose everything.

also for new pandora lites so there making freezing version of spartan 3s cheap and disposable soldiers

[Nemuru]

Originally Posted by hoarfrost

Why does everything this guy writes descend into something that seems ripped from a D-list hentai? It wouldn't matter if he showed those leanings to begin with but I'm tired of it jumping out at you. If he didn't work with such a kickass illustrator I really wouldn't read his stuff.

lol, read his doujin and start raging harder ^^, (I mean his own freezing doujin). I'm almost tempted to stop reading this manga with the current spoilers. Maybe I just need to turn my brain off more with this series.

[Alhazad2003]

Spoiler for Chapter 64-65:

Wow, the lengths they're willing to go in order to stop the NOVA threat are becoming more and more disturbing. I'm sure they were eager to censure Elizabeth are she soundly defeated Amelia and helped destroy the Nova form E-Pandora, thus demonstrating the flaws in the project. But blowing the whistle like that, geez. Not that I think she was wrong in the least, but now not only her, but her entire family is being vilified? Sometimes it seems like there's no justice in the world.

And that bit about another experiment in two weeks bothers me. If the people behind the E-Pandora project become aware of Satellizer's transformation during the West Genetics siege, I fear she might be "recruited," or at least they'll definitely try. After all, it's for the future of humanity, isn't it? May Kazuya step up yet again to save his partner from degradation that makes the abuse she suffered because of Louis look like child's play.

And despite the lengths they've gone to and have yet to reach, we're still all but completely in the dark about the NOVA's intentions. They're undeniably hostile towards humanity, yes, but most everything beyond that is still unknown. It's no secret now they've become aware of the nature of the Pandora's power and tried to neutralize it in Vol 5-6, but failed, thankfully. Will they try again in this current arc? I guess we'll find out soon enough.

[shaselai]

i think there might be a school pandora vs chevalier pandora later on?

[Yorae_paladin1]

Originally Posted by Alhazad2003

Spoiler for Chapter 64-65:

Wow, the lengths they're willing to go in order to stop the NOVA threat are becoming more and more disturbing. I'm sure they were eager to censure Elizabeth are she soundly defeated Amelia and helped destroy the Nova form E-Pandora, thus demonstrating the flaws in the project. But blowing the whistle like that, geez. Not that I think she was wrong in the least, but now not only her, but her entire family is being vilified? Sometimes it seems like there's no justice in the world.

And that bit about another experiment in two weeks bothers me. If the people behind the E-Pandora project become aware of Satellizer's transformation during the West Genetics siege, I fear she might be "recruited," or at least they'll definitely try. After all, it's for the future of humanity, isn't it? May Kazuya step up yet again to save his partner from degradation that makes the abuse she suffered because of Louis look like child's play.

And despite the lengths they've gone to and have yet to reach, we're still all but completely in the dark about the NOVA's intentions. They're undeniably hostile towards humanity, yes, but most everything beyond that is still unknown. It's no secret now they've become aware of the nature of the Pandora's power and tried to neutralize it in Vol 5-6, but failed, thankfully. Will they try again in this current arc? I guess we'll find out soon enough.

Spoiler:

There maybe flaws in that project but the increasing threat needs that project they cannot wait for compatible people to be born. They don't need capable Pandoras 10 to 20 years from now mankind does not have that kind of time anymore they need them now

[vg166]

Originally Posted by Yorae_paladin1

Spoiler:

There maybe flaws in that project but the increasing threat needs that project they cannot wait for compatible people to be born. They don't need capable Pandoras 10 to 20 years from now mankind does not have that kind of time anymore they need them now

Spoiler for Chapter 64-65:

That's the point. The top guys are seeing the NOVAs attacking sooner and sooner. From their POV (And we know some of the people in the chain of command disagree with E-Pandora Project - from Chapter 37 when it was first mentioned to Chapter 64.) they don't have time to wait and come up with a different solution because the NOVAs might attack at anytime. I think most of the heads of the Chevaliers been jerks so far but it's like reality - sometimes there is no perfect solution but you have to chose between a bad terrible solution and a worst alternative. Since the alternative is being destroyed by the NOVAs, they're picking the bad terrible solution and hope it works.

[FlavorOfLife]

Originally Posted by vg166

Spoiler for Chapter 64-65:

That's the point. The top guys are seeing the NOVAs attacking sooner and sooner. From their POV (And we know some of the people in the chain of command disagree with E-Pandora Project - from Chapter 37 when it was first mentioned to Chapter 64.) they don't have time to wait and come up with a different solution because the NOVAs might attack at anytime. I think most of the heads of the Chevaliers been jerks so far but it's like reality - sometimes there is no perfect solution but you have to chose between a bad terrible solution and a worst alternative. Since the alternative is being destroyed by the NOVAs, they're picking the bad terrible solution and hope it works.

Spoiler for Chapter 64-65:

No, if it worked or at least had a 50% chance of working, then you would have a point but the Mark 4 was a failure right from the start and they knew it. The Mark 3 was obvious enough in results.

Also given that they knew the dangers of Nova form happening, this is a incredibly stupid answer to the Nova invasion. You're basically making soldiers for your enemy, not slow cooked ones like the Pandoras but instant noodles type soldiers. What exactly does that help in stopping the Novas? In fact if the Novas had human reasoning, they would be rubbing their hands in glee at the Chevalier suicidal tactics.

If you wanted to go unethical, clone the entire bunch. 1000 chiffons backed by 1000 elizabeths or whoever is strongest.

[shaselai]

the ranking in freezing is really weird... arent they all ranked by regions/countries? so a chiffon number 1 in this region might not be better than a #1 from another region? Anyway Elizabeth did have doubts about the experiment and perhaps alterior motives. Maybe the military will use mk IV as soldiers against other countries as well once the nova problem is solved?

[vg166]

Originally Posted by shaselai

the ranking in freezing is really weird... arent they all ranked by regions/countries? so a chiffon number 1 in this region might not be better than a #1 from another region? Anyway Elizabeth did have doubts about the experiment and perhaps alterior motives. Maybe the military will use mk IV as soldiers against other countries as well once the nova problem is solved?

They seem to be ranked by schools but its fuzzy just like everything else in the manga.

And we don't know we controls the Chevaliers or the E-Pandoras directly. Everything suggest some sort of UN, except even stupider and corrupt then the real one.

[surerman]

about the Ranking, they have different Champions for each Country and different Region GENETICS branch.
Japan WEST GENETICS have different strongest PANDORA than EAST. Chiffon Fairchild is the strongest in both East and West, dunno about South and North branch (if there's any)
France and England (Louis PANDORA) also have their own monsters.


We can't be sure who is the strongest among them all, but for this time we know, no one beaten Kazuha Aoi in power level.

Note:
even if a PANDORA can't use all her STIGMA properly to the max, have 20 STIGMA inside the body make her more than a living Fortress against NOVA

Dragon Ball Z mode: ON
2 stigma x 80% utilize = let said it 16 000 000 firepower
3 stigma x 80% utilize = may be around 512 000 000
20 stigma x 20% utilize = 1 024 000 000

and for Kazuha body to NOVA-lize, it's can't be just a 20% it's should be 100%

[vg166]

Originally Posted by FlavorOfLife

Spoiler for Chapter 64-65:

No, if it worked or at least had a 50% chance of working, then you would have a point but the Mark 4 was a failure right from the start and they knew it. The Mark 3 was obvious enough in results.

Also given that they knew the dangers of Nova form happening, this is a incredibly stupid answer to the Nova invasion. You're basically making soldiers for your enemy, not slow cooked ones like the Pandoras but instant noodles type soldiers. What exactly does that help in stopping the Novas? In fact if the Novas had human reasoning, they would be rubbing their hands in glee at the Chevalier suicidal tactics.

If you wanted to go unethical, clone the entire bunch. 1000 chiffons backed by 1000 elizabeths or whoever is strongest.

Spoiler for Chapter 64-65:

I don't think they ever said Mark IV was a complete failure. It had a too high failure rate and when it fails, it FAILS, but I don't think even Amelia said it was a complete failure. And they need the extra Pandoras fast. If that means say 20 out of 100 works, thats 20 they can have soon then wait for a regular Pandora to grow up and get 3 years of training. Its harsh but sadly thats how the world often works. We saw people inside the Chevaliers not wanting to go with the E-Pandoras and Mark IV, but like I said earlier, sometimes its a choice between a bad, horrible decision and a worst alternative. And while Amelia almost died testing the Mark III, I don't think anyone including her thought it would create a Nova-Form.

And the Nova-form is a risk with the regular Pandoras too. They thought they licked that by limiting how many Stigmas each Pandora got but that didn't work. Either way you can say you are making troops for your enemies but that's the only way anyone (Including it looks like Kazuya's grandfather.) knows how to fight the NOVAs.

We don't know if cloning is possible but its been hinted that they did it with Maria. But this is Freezing, where everything so damn obscure. Trying to figure out the details they didn't say can drive you mad.

[surerman]

Originally Posted by vg166

Spoiler for Chapter 64-65:

I don't think they ever said Mark IV was a complete failure. It had a too high failure rate and when it fails, it FAILS, but I don't think even Amelia said it was a complete failure. And they need the extra Pandoras fast. If that means say 20 out of 100 works, thats 20 they can have soon then wait for a regular Pandora to grow up and get 3 years of training. Its harsh but sadly thats how the world often works. We saw people inside the Chevaliers not wanting to go with the E-Pandoras and Mark IV, but like I said earlier, sometimes its a choice between a bad, horrible decision and a worst alternative. And while Amelia almost died testing the Mark III, I don't think anyone including her thought it would create a Nova-Form.

And the Nova-form is a risk with the regular Pandoras too. They thought they licked that by limiting how many Stigmas each Pandora got but that didn't work. Either way you can say you are making troops for your enemies but that's the only way anyone (Including it looks like Kazuya's grandfather.) knows how to fight the NOVAs.

We don't know if cloning is possible but its been hinted that they did it with Maria. But this is Freezing, where everything so damn obscure. Trying to figure out the details they didn't say can drive you mad.

something come to my mind if they in desperate need of army, why don't re-activate the past war veteran aka. the NUMBERS like Yumi Kim sensei.

Are their STIGMA removed once they retire?, if it's removed, then how can they become instructor inside such Cruel-Girls-Lair like GENETICS.
If it's still intact why there's no LIMITER for them? are they placed there just to become bossy? or is it because they will not fought any NOVA?
They sure have confidence in their ability to force the rules inside GENETICS then hahaha

[Alhazad2003]

Originally Posted by surerman

about the Ranking, they have different Champions for each Country and different Region GENETICS branch.
Japan WEST GENETICS have different strongest PANDORA than EAST. Chiffon Fairchild is the strongest in both East and West, dunno about South and North branch (if there's any)
France and England (Louis PANDORA) also have their own monsters.

Hmm, are you sure about that? Granted there's no one who could defeat Chiffon at West Genetics, not to mention she took down a fourth year Nova form without so much as a scratch (I'm sure Tish helped but you get the idea), but where does it say she's stronger than anyone at East Genetics, which includes Cassie "Godspeed" Lockheart, the presumed "savior" of humanity? I must've missed that part, any help would be appreciated.

Originally Posted by surerman

something come to my mind if they in desperate need of army, why don't re-activate the past war veteran aka. the NUMBERS like Yumi Kim sensei.

Are their STIGMA removed once they retire?, if it's removed, then how can they become instructor inside such Cruel-Girls-Lair like GENETICS.
If it's still intact why there's no LIMITER for them? are they placed there just to become bossy? or is it because they will not fought any NOVA?
They sure have confidence in their ability to force the rules inside GENETICS then hahaha

Yumi and Elize still have their stigma, if they didn't they couldn't materialize their Volt Weapons. Plus they need them to keep their students in line, especially troublemakers like Satella (among others). Normal humans couldn't keep such a large body of super soldiers in line.

As for reinstating them into Chevalier, the brass hasn't considered that for some odd reason (a trend in the manga, can really set your teeth on edge ). Though if I recall correctly, I think it was Yumi and Elize who stated if the E-Pandora project was a success, there's be no need for another Kazuha. Clearly the men behind Chevalier are thinking quantity rather than quality. We'll see where this goes, especially...

Spoiler:

since Elizabeth and her whole company have been censured for speaking out against the E-Pandora project. And since Oohara seems to have a clone of the E-Pandora who went Nova-form, she'll undoubtedly try again with Mark IV, regardless of the cost. Can't wait for the next chapter.

[leon4281isback]

In any case, I'm thrilled for the next chapter, but I have my worries for the main characters and Lizzie (nickname I just gave Elizabeth Mayberry). I'm not surprised about the usual stupid things a military officials would do, espeically during a time of impending crisis from time to time. I really do hate it when it goes down, and sometimes things don't go so well with what they've planned.

The Mark IV E-pandora project is still a neccessity for the consenting factor, it is going to be riding down on that despite the major risk involved. Heck, like someone else said, they might get Satallizer to be "recuited" to their little project which I am heavily worried about. Her little transformation happened because Genessa Roland took the major shot for her when that Nova-controlled pandora fired a powerful beam at her was at a near death state, and she was extremely angry, next thing you know she grew spikes out of her back and was incredibly stronger than before. Who can say Brigette wasn't the first to pull that off by use of powerful emotions such as anger? Well, seeing as she was the only one to pull it off, she IS the first by far. There's still much more about pandora and novas to learn about.