Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei LN - Archived Discussion

[Requiem-x]

Originally Posted by pampz21

Hey~ hey~
It wouldnt be this popular without Miyuki, so give her some slacks.

Not everyone likes idealized characters (Yes, I do remember Miyuki has a truckload of internal conflicts). Prepare to see a lot more of that when the anime comes out.

[pampz21]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

Something tells me there'll be a lot of Miyuki haters when the anime will start. I don't hate her but I find her quite annoying from times to times( like on the picture shadows posted), the Visitor arc made me like her more though.

Still waiting for the moment where she will finally try to rape Tatsuya .

I guess they need to tone her down alittle; If they go the same route as the manga; I feel that they're gonna tone down every girl except for Miyuki#!

Originally Posted by hakazee

We are comparing Tomitsuka, Mari and Leo.

And you say they can easily trashes Tomitsuka in cqc fight.

Please tell me how my friend.

Leo's might is equal to an Elite of a 101 Battalion; While Mari can go in par with Katsuto, Mayumi?

If you need further explanation, Read Lu-Gonhu VS Mari 3rd fight and for Leo well you can just tell by seeing him fight(from vol. 2 to vampire arc).....
Self Marionette is something that supress human limit but Leo already surpass what human limit is.

[kusabireika]

I will hate the anime if they remove tatsuya without emotion. Like in the manga version. I like the ln tatsuya I hope the anime won't do the manga tatsuya route


Edit: Serious Tomitsuka vs Serious Hattori who will win ?

[hakazee]

Originally Posted by pampz21

Physical?....Combat?....
What do you not understand?
With or without magic Leo and Mari still wins.
There are always someone above....and thats why I add Maybe right.

We are comparing Tomitsuka, Mari and Leo.

And you say they can easily trashes Tomitsuka in cqc fight.

Please tell me how my friend.


You overestimate Strenght type. Especially its Leo.

If you're talking about Katsuto then maybe yes. Because he's pretty fast.

Leo ? ??? Yes he's strong, but he's slow man.

Originally Posted by pampz21

Why would you put Erika, Leo, and Mari below Tomitsuka?(which in terms of physical and both combat those 3 trashes Tomitsuka)

I'm sure you underestimate Tomitsuka.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by kusabireika

Leo: Actually..................... It's me

On-topic can't wait for anime I hope they won't cut some good parts

And here we have the real reason Tats doesn't pick up on Miyuki's advances: His mom, being a closet fujoshi, snuck in some BL programming with the Artificial Calculation Area.

Plot twist!

[anonfr]

Originally Posted by pampz21

Leo's might is equal to an Elite of a 101 Battalion; While Mari can go in par with Katsuto, Mayumi?

If you need further explanation, Read Lu-Gonhu VS Mari 3rd fight and for Leo well you can just tell by seeing him fight(from vol. 2 to vampire arc).....
Self Marionette is something that supress human limit but Leo already surpass what human limit is.

I'm going to regret this. I'm really going to regret this. But.

Leaving your estimation of Tomitsuka aside;

Leo is equal to a 101 Elite?

Mari is equal to Katsuo? Is that in reference to physical ability, or just magic. I actually think she's inferior in both personally.


But, can you produce something to back up these figures? Something substantial?

[real123]

The wiki already put anime photo of tatsuya
that was fast

[Rava]

Originally Posted by anonfr

I'm going to regret this. I'm really going to regret this. But.

Leaving your estimation of Tomitsuka aside;

Leo is equal to a 101 Elite?

Mari is equal to Katsuo? Is that in reference to physical ability, or just magic. I actually think she's inferior in both personally.


But, can you produce something to back up these figures? Something substantial?

I don't remember if it specified Leo specifically, but one part of the earlier chapters has Tatsuya estimating that the combatants of his circle of friends (i.e. not Mizuki) being at the same combat level as that of a 101 Battalion member. It may had been during the vampire arc though.

[Echizen777]

But, can you produce something to back up these figures? Something substantial?[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Rava

I don't remember if it specified Leo specifically, but one part of the earlier chapters has Tatsuya estimating that the combatants of his circle of friends (i.e. not Mizuki) being at the same combat level as that of a 101 Battalion member. It may had been during the vampire arc though.

Here it is

Spoiler for Quote:

Tatsuya’s reaction to Leo’s answer was a little different than the usual
approach to this situation.
However, the detail that Tatsuya cared about the most was precisely
this one.
They had been in the same close for almost a year. In Tatsuya’s eyes,
the three of them had the power now to match any frontline combat
Magician and maybe even the members of the Independent Magic-
Equipped Battalion.
Of course, they still couldn’t take on Kazama or Yanagi (without
“Trident”, even Tatsuya couldn’t defeat them), but they could
definitely hold their own against the rank and file.

They are strong but it doesn't mean they can beat Tomitsuka. Maybe Mikihiko could beat him.

[anonfr]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

Here it is

Spoiler for Quote:

Tatsuya’s reaction to Leo’s answer was a little different than the usual
approach to this situation.
However, the detail that Tatsuya cared about the most was precisely
this one.
They had been in the same close for almost a year. In Tatsuya’s eyes,
the three of them had the power now to match any frontline combat
Magician and maybe even the members of the Independent Magic-
Equipped Battalion.
Of course, they still couldn’t take on Kazama or Yanagi (without
“Trident”, even Tatsuya couldn’t defeat them), but they could
definitely hold their own against the rank and file.

They are strong but it doesn't mean they can beat Tomitsuka. Maybe Mikihiko could beat him.

Alright cool, fair enough. What about Mari being on par with Katsuo?

And Tomitsuka, I have mixed feelings about him. I was so surprised with how well he did against Tatsuya I rate him pretty highly. I'm not sure if I overestimate due to gained respect though, but he did seem to give Tatsuya a surprisingly tough time.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by anonfr

Alright cool, fair enough. What about Mari being on par with Katsuo?

And Tomitsuka, I have mixed feelings about him. I was so surprised with how well he did against Tatsuya I rate him pretty highly. I'm not sure if I overestimate due to gained respect though, but he did seem to give Tatsuya a surprisingly tough time.

Honestly, Mari is said to be on par with Mayumi and Katsuto since volume 1 but with everything they showed so far I can't imagine Katsuto losing to any students but Tatsuya, I don't even see how Mayumi or Masaki could beat him.

But there is

Spoiler for Quotes:

Yet on Mari's side, she wasn't using the same tactics either. Her advantage over others lay not in overwhelming magic power or swift activation speed, but her versatility in multiple magics and the ability to combine them to simultaneously chain multiple magics, a high class technique that was extremely difficult for her opponents to defend against. At First High, Hattori might possess a similar ability, but in terms of anti-personnel combat, Mari's complexity and versatility put all others to shame. Her expertise lay in striking at exposed sensory organs, such as auditory, olfactory senses in order to take away the enemy's fighting ability using magic. Thanks to these skills, Mari was able to stand shoulder to shoulder with Magicians who were direct descendants from the Ten Master Clans like Katsuto and Mayumi. The three of them together were known collectively as the "Triumvirate".

While he might have yielded before the Big Three which consisted of Mari, a specialist in both individual and group anti-personnel combat, Mayumi, who could freely employ astounding, high-speed, high precision shooting magic, and Juumonji, a club captain who had gained a peculiar title known as "Iron Wall", Hattori had the confidence that he could hold his own against other students or even groups of teachers.

[Rava]

Yeah, I don't see how Katsuto can be considered to have equivalents, given that his barrier magics can selectively block all attacks one way (as seen when he's being escorted during volume 7) and can be used offensively. Their only hope would be in activating something faster than him.

[kidswable]

in the usual rpg games there are str, spd, int and balanced type.
Here is my opinion, katsuto is more likely str type. Mayumi is spd type, and mari is balanced type. The int type is not count because this is magic based ln.

Another thing is erika will be spd, leo will be str and miki will be balanced.
Honestly, I do not know where to put tatsuya, while I think miyuki will be put at broken balanced type.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by kidswable

in the usual rpg games there are str, spd, int and balanced type.
Here is my opinion, katsuto is more likely str type. Mayumi is spd type, and mari is balanced type. The int type is not count because this is magic based ln.

Another thing is erika will be spd, leo will be str and miki will be balanced.
Honestly, I do not know where to put tatsuya, while I think miyuki will be put at broken balanced type.

I don't know if it's because she is portrayed as perfect or something but Miyuki isn't broken, if you see it like that all 10MCs characters properly trained are broken.

[Riddam]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

I don't know if it's because she is portrayed as perfect or something but Miyuki isn't broken, if you see it like that all 10MCs characters properly trained are broken.

Miyuki is exceptional even compared to the elite, there is no one in the series that has the same magical talent. She's easily more powerful than any of the other students from the 10 families and probably more powerful than some of the heads of the weaker families withing the 10.

It's the combination of having Cocytus, to which there is no conventional defense, as well as having unparalleled magical ability.
As a result it's almost impossible to harm Miyuki by the way of non-unique magic, and even if you have one, it most likely will not be as fast as Cocytus, for which Miyuki doesn't need a CAD to cast.
There's a reason she was so dominant against Lina, who's supposed to be the most powerful magician in the USNA military, when USNA is the most technically advanced country/coalition in magic.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by Riddam

Miyuki is exceptional even compared to the elite, there is no one in the series that has the same magical talent. She's easily more powerful than any of the other students from the 10 families and probably more powerful than some of the heads of the weaker families withing the 10.

It's the combination of having Cocytus, to which there is no conventional defense, as well as having unparalleled magical ability.
As a result it's almost impossible to harm Miyuki by the way of non-unique magic, and even if you have one, it most likely will not be as fast as Cocytus, for which Miyuki doesn't need a CAD to cast.
There's a reason she was so dominant against Lina, who's supposed to be the most powerful magician in the USNA military, when USNA is the most technically advanced country/coalition in magic.

This is the effect of writing, Miyuki is a magic genius but that's because she is from the 10 MC, show me only one quote where she has been said to be better than any member of the 10MC.
She is portrayed as perfect at anything which is not magic-related and it affects the readers. She overwhelms her opponents with her strengths speed magic and flawless ice magic, her magic his classical at its best(Niflheim and Inferno are classical but are way more powerful with Miyuki, Deceleration Zone is a terrible weapon in her hands), the opposite of Tatsuya, people are even more amazed because of her beauty and because they don’t know she is a Yotsuba. Remember the 9SC? Everytime a magician from the 10 MC participate the others are amazed, that’s normal, but their magical talent aside, they aren’t beautiful or perfect at others things like Miyuki, that’s all. You can’t really estimate their talent, can you say she is more gifted than Fumiya, Masaki and the rest? No, they all have their OP characteristics, again it’s one of the reason I wanted the 2nd 9SC to be longer, the others gifted magicians will show their OPness as well, we haven't even seen half of the 28 families heirs, you can be sure they could give Miyuki a run for her money. The only worthy opponent Miyuki got in this LN is Lina, and according to Mayumi and Mari they have equal magic power.

If you are saying that she is the strongest because of Cocytus( which can be countered just by not being in her line of sight and it’s even confirmed that there are means to counter lunar magic) then I can just say that Lina is the strongest magician too, she is the fastest caster of the series and just need to spam Heavy Metal Burst. Miyuki pwned Lina because Lina was an idiot, she should have learnt her lesson after her fight against Erika and Mikihiko but she underestimated Miyuki, her rival, thinking that she could beat her easily, naive and stupid for the best magician of USNA, this trip was good for her. If Lina had Erika mindset, the match would have been much more interesting.

[Kartaen]

Originally Posted by Riddam

Miyuki is exceptional even compared to the elite, there is no one in the series that has the same magical talent.

Lina has. The only difference between them is that Lina doesn't have a huge psion quantity like Tatsuya and Miyuki.

Originally Posted by Requiem-x

Not everyone likes idealized characters

Yes, you are right.

[pampz21]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

They are strong but it doesn't mean they can beat Tomitsuka. Maybe Mikihiko could beat him.

I think Tomitsuka can be one of the strongest among their peers; he is rank 5th next to Morisaki.

Leo's strength lies on his power fortification magic; that is first class or even be above it. He can tank 3 guys simultaneously and defeat them.

Miki's might lies on his chain/delay/complexity of his spell, I think he's on the same category as Mari.

For Erika I don't need to explain this one.

Originally Posted by anonfr

And Tomitsuka, I have mixed feelings about him. I was so surprised with how well he did against Tatsuya I rate him pretty highly. I'm not sure if I overestimate due to gained respect though, but he did seem to give Tatsuya a surprisingly tough time.

Well I give him credit, but taking time to defeat an opponent; and muchless to something of your specialty, when your opponent magic is limited to Non-systematic, Ninjutsu, Physical and relying on your opponent to use speed type magic.

[Rava]

Originally Posted by kidswable

in the usual rpg games there are str, spd, int and balanced type.
Here is my opinion, katsuto is more likely str type. Mayumi is spd type, and mari is balanced type. The int type is not count because this is magic based ln.

Another thing is erika will be spd, leo will be str and miki will be balanced.
Honestly, I do not know where to put tatsuya, while I think miyuki will be put at broken balanced type.

The "usual" RPG games totally depends on the type of RPGs you play. :P

Either way, for the type you're specifying, the only "Strength" type in Mahouka would be Leo and people like Erika's oldest brother. You'd have to be physically attacking to even qualify and Katsuto uses the power of his barriers (so Int) and his high speed (from his Move-Type magic skills) to cause damage. He never actually throws a punch himself.

For some of the others,

Erika would be a Speed type.

Tomitsuka (and the other MMA club guys like Sawaki) would probably be a hybrid Strength/Speed type.

Mari would be an all-rounder/balanced.

Everyone else other than Miyuki and Lina would either be an Intelligence type or an Intelligence/(something) type, like Katsuto being Intelligence/Speed.

Miyuki and Lina would be in their own special category of "Omni" (with Miyuki being an Intelligence-type Omni and Lina being a Speed/Intelligence-type Omni) that everyone will always use unless they're trying to give themselves more of a challenge.

Tatsuya, on the other hand, defies all types by being a walking MacGuffin owned by Miyuki. That's not even a ship, because he's her Guardian and only Miyuki can successfully dismiss him.

[Riddam]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

This is the effect of writing, Miyuki is a magic genius but that's because she is from the 10 MC, show me only one quote where she has been said to be better than any member of the 10MC.
She is portrayed as perfect at anything which is not magic-related and it affects the readers. She overwhelms her opponents with her strengths speed magic and flawless ice magic, her magic his classical at its best(Niflheim and Inferno are classical but are way more powerful with Miyuki, Deceleration Zone is a terrible weapon in her hands), the opposite of Tatsuya, people are even more amazed because of her beauty and because they don’t know she is a Yotsuba. Remember the 9SC? Everytime a magician from the 10 MC participate the others are amazed, that’s normal, but their magical talent aside, they aren’t beautiful or perfect at others things like Miyuki, that’s all. You can’t really estimate their talent, can you say she is more gifted than Fumiya, Masaki and the rest? No, they all have their OP characteristics, again it’s one of the reason I wanted the 2nd 9SC to be longer, the others gifted magicians will show their OPness as well, we haven't even seen half of the 28 families heirs, you can be sure they could give Miyuki a run for her money. The only worthy opponent Miyuki got in this LN is Lina, and according to Mayumi and Mari they have equal magic power.

If you are saying that she is the strongest because of Cocytus( which can be countered just by not being in her line of sight and it’s even confirmed that there are means to counter lunar magic) then I can just say that Lina is the strongest magician too, she is the fastest caster of the series and just need to spam Heavy Metal Burst. Miyuki pwned Lina because Lina was an idiot, she should have learnt her lesson after her fight against Erika and Mikihiko but she underestimated Miyuki, her rival, thinking that she could beat her easily, naive and stupid for the best magician of USNA, this trip was good for her. If Lina had Erika mindset, the match would have been much more interesting.

Yes, from what we know I can safely say that she's stronger than any other student from the 10 families, and so should you. Something could of course come up, but we most likely know most of the students of the 10 families already and I highly doubt Miyuki would get a junior rival next year. Also we already know the students from the 3 strongest families, it's unlikely that the weaker families would produce Yotsuba caliber magicians.

Mayumi and Mari have an incomplete understanding of both Lina and Miyuki. The novel also insinuates something along those lines. And Miyuki came out ahead in all of the little magic competitions they had anyway.

Lina lost the fight because she had absolutely no chance against Miyuki in that encounter, she didn't have Brionac, it had nothing to do with stupidity.

..I though I said that she's the strongest because of the combination of her talent and innate magic? Also didn't I say Cocytus didn't have conventional defenses?
And yes, Lina spamming Heavy metal burst with Brionac is probably the strongest magician in the series. The only way to beat that would be to have some magician have an inbuilt counter mechanism, like Tomitsuka has one against Tatsuya. It's actually more about the engineering genius than it is about the magicians.
Even so, Miyuki is the more talented magician even if she'd lose against Brionac, but that was not what I was saying.
Lina isn't part of the 10 families is she? Heavy metal burst is unique magic, even if you didn't know it (that's why she's one of the thirteen apostles). You basically just took my post and went on a rant on your own.

Do you actually remember what your original point was? What I'm saying is that Miyuki is for certain an unusually strong magician and unrivaled amongst her peers. In Japan the only people who're capable of beating Miyuki are probably family heads and a few obscure magicians, in the vein of Yakumo, although Yakumo himself would have a very low chance. This isn't even a matter of opinion, if you think Miyuki is just any old magician from the ten families, you actually haven't paid attention to what you've read.

Originally Posted by Kartaen

Lina has. The only difference between them is that Lina doesn't have a huge psion quantity like Tatsuya and Miyuki.

Do you understand that what you just said alone, would make Miyuki more talented? There's one thing Lina is slightly better at, and that's casting speed. They're relatively close in talent but the novel makes it clear that Miyuki has an edge in every little encounter they have. Miyuki is better in Zone interference, Psion count and Wide area magic.