2012-02-09, 13:03 | Link #1181 | |
reading #hikaributts
Join Date: Feb 2009
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2012-02-09, 13:25 | Link #1182 | |||
Osana-Najimi Shipper
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mt. Ordeals
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So what are we left with if you take out 'intention'? The audience's response to the event. And going by the final impressions thread and especially the final episode thread of MF, I'd say a good number felt 'trolled'. Heck a good number specifically used that term. Quote:
Having been a HARDCORE shipper for well over a decade (You think shipping wars nowadays are bad? They've got nothing on the Asuka vs Rei debate back when NGE was in its prime), the best way to avoid shipping rage is to keep an OPEN MIND about ALL the possibilities. It's those people who in their minds closed off possibilities that rage the most, when one of the 'closed possibilities' happened in the show/book/movie they are watching. I personally don't mind either way Mikono goes to, apart from a slight leaning to Kagura simply because of the Romeo/Juliet kinda feel. Kinda like Macross, when I didn't really mind Ranka or Sheryl (my OTP in that anime was Klan/Michel), though I leaned more towards Ranka if only because of a slight Romeo/Juliet feel due to her being... you know. All of this goes without saying that there exists one special exception of course. If one couple is revealed to have known each other when they were kids, then my shipping tendencies HEAVILY shifts into their favour. Kinda like Macross F... not that it's gonna happen in this show (there's a small hope but unlikely). Quote:
Point 1) You're basing this on the 'single protagonist' viewpoint, when many books/shows/movies can have multiple protagonists Point 2) You're basing Kagura's unlikeliness to be a main character based on the 'vast majority of anime', when you should be basing it on the original Aquarion Point 3) You're closing off Kagura's potential to be as equal in importance to story as Amata, when the groundwork is there for Kagura to be the 'other half' of Amata. Now this is your arguement... Premise A) Kagura will most likely not be a main character Premise B) Mikono is the main heroine of the series Premise C) The main heroine will most likely end up with a main character Conclusion - Kagura will most likely not end up with Mikono Considering Premise A is unsound (because of the points 1, 2, and 3 I explained above) and thus makes your arguement fall apart, that is where people have a beef with you. Not that I'm trying to change your viewpoint right now (I know I won't be able to), but just clearing the confusion as to why you think you're being 'demonised' (which I don't think you are being subjected to either).
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2012-02-09, 15:17 | Link #1183 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
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I don't like Kagura because he calls Mikono a wench.
Anyway, gonna miss Shrade if he dies. Not only did I like his pompous, over the top character, but he also gave me endless laughs with the way he spoke, reminding me of the riverside literature girl in nichibros. |
2012-02-09, 15:36 | Link #1184 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Yeah, I wish he'd tone that down. Yes, yes, I know he probably has a heart of gold and all that, as characters like him tend to, but gah, that "kuso onna" is seriously grating.
Shrade can't die, he just made it to the ED. And who's going to fuel Sazanka's fantasies if he's dead? Don't die, Shrade~ Quote:
(And to make this even more off-topic, re: trolling... I dunno, lately it seems people use "trolling" when they mean "the story doesn't go the way I hoped/thought it would." To me trolling would be Kawamori pushing say, AltoxRanka and randomly pulling an AltoxSheryl in the very last minute. Or if he had the two girls ditch Alto and hook up with each other in the last episode. I would've liked that, though. 8D Something like "I wanted to see a resolution and I didn't get one" is IMO not trolling.) |
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2012-02-09, 16:08 | Link #1185 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
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COLD HARD FACTS. You can't say my arguemnt is wrong or falls apart much like I can't say yours is wrong even though I believe it's very unlikely, since there's very little data to work with (and a lot of bias on your end). We deal in probabilites so unless you can bring force logical fallacies in my arguement BASED ON THE SHOW, you deal in probabilities and leave it at that. These crazy kids dealing in absolutes to base or discredit some else's arguements when their isn't none. I am dissapoint. Last edited by Tenchi Hou Take; 2012-02-09 at 16:18. |
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2012-02-09, 16:34 | Link #1186 | |||
Osana-Najimi Shipper
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mt. Ordeals
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All I'm saying is the premise you have in "Kagura is likely not going to be a main character" is unsound when there is equal possibility for him to turn/not turn into one based on what I said before in points 1, 2, and 3. And since you can't say with certainty one way or another that Kagura will or will not become a MC, you also can't say with certainty one way or another that Kagura will or will not have a likely chance to end up with Mikono. Quote:
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2012-02-09, 17:04 | Link #1189 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Anyway at least we're on the same here, I'll believe what i want and base the probablilty on my interpretation on shit and you believe whatever you want but lets not go around saying the other persons arguement falls to pieces based on unproven shit. mmkay. I've been saying this all along, I simply believe it's unlikely because I rarely see it happen. So shoot me |
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2012-02-09, 18:54 | Link #1190 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
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But like I said, it's more of a minor nitpick than anything else. Certainly not worth derailing things even further. There are plenty of shows without a singular main character, because they have multiple characters who share focus... but by definition there should only be a single main character, or multiple characters. If you have more than one protagonist... he's no longer the chief actor, he's just another character. |
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2012-02-09, 18:54 | Link #1191 |
Caperucita Roja
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Over the rainbow
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I honestly think that it would be a lot better if we all avoid shipping and character wars, guys. It's not fun at all, and I think sometimes people just forgets that this story is written by someone else, so it is not going to be like they wish it to be.
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2012-02-09, 19:06 | Link #1192 | ||
Carpe Diem
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: ||At the edge of finality.||
Age: 34
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None of us ever talked about the certainty of the event, mearly its possibility and how it fit as an explanation for why his character has been structured the way it has: He's not unlikeable, he's constantly losing, and so on. You can go back to the original few posts between myself and tyson for the discussion.
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2012-02-09, 19:22 | Link #1193 |
Caperucita Roja
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Over the rainbow
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I said that because some pages ago it was nearly a shipping war. And when we argue about who fits to be the protagonist in EVOL, sometimes we are mixing this shipping wishes on the discussion. I'm not talking about someone in particular, just reminding that shipping and character wars aren't funny. And when arguing about characters, it's easy to cross that line.
Long story short: I said that just in case it happens. I'm sorry if I offended someone. |
2012-02-09, 19:58 | Link #1197 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
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sorta... because technically isn't the definition of protagonist the chief actor, or main character? I'd prefer viewpoint character / protagonist or main character / and hero. |
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2012-02-09, 19:59 | Link #1198 | |
Caperucita Roja
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Over the rainbow
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In another note, I'm wondering why we still don't have a subforum for Aquarion. I never understand how this subforum thing works. It's because we are not enough users yet? |
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2012-02-09, 22:33 | Link #1199 | ||
#1 Ranka Fan!!
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: USA
Age: 32
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Spoiler for a pointless and useless conversation with Shinji:
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He's in the OP, so he is an important character, but there's no guarantee he's a main character yet. Though I think he is the main rival to Amata by the reaction I get from the OP.
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2012-02-09, 23:19 | Link #1200 | ||||||||||
Crazy Devout Fanboy
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: 1st Ra Cailum-class battleship Ra Cailum, port-side officer's bunks
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@LoveMeKags - Protip: if you have something against pointless conversations, you can try reading what people post so you have more than half the picture.
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And sexist? You really haven't been listening; THAT'S MY WHOLE POINT. IF YOU'RE FEMALE, YOU'RE INSIGNIFICANT AS A PILOT IN A MECHA ANIME REGARDLESS OF SKILL. WHICH IS WHY MIKONO WILL MOST LIKELY NEVER BE A SHOWSTOPPING PILOT. OF COURSE IT'S SEXIST. One of the few mecha anime with a female lead pilot ever recognized as a good series was Gunbuster. Most every other female mecha lead title was quickly forgotten. Quote:
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If you want another example, Nena Trinity in Gundam 00 was probably the worst pilot in the whole series, who was treated as a mere stepping stone all the way until the end. Louise Harvey was incredibly unimpressive and just served to provide character conflict for her boyfriend Saji, and Soma Peries was a great pilot who actually did good stuff in season 1, but faded into insignificance in season 2. (a fact which her fans are very unhappy about) If you look at a lot of mecha series-es, you'll see that the females are portrayed as either bad pilots, or they don't accomplish anything significant to the plot or story as actual pilots. As per my whole point, this is because mecha anime is considering a man's thing, and females are, to be blunt, inferior. Yes, it's sexist, absolutely. I don't see why female pilots can't kick mecha ass alongside the best men, like Haman Khan did. (I could name a lot of other skilled female pilots from a bunch of series, but Haman is one of the few universally recognized) And she's a popular character too. Quote:
What would have been wrong with making Sylvia a key point of interest more similar to Apollo, as in a character who helps to win the fight instead of getting captured? Just because Kawamori likes to use that type of storyline doesn't make it less cliche, and it definitely doesn't mean I have to like it. >.> Since you don't watch Gundam I doubt you play the Super Robot Wars games (especially since they're JP games and only playable if you can play JP DVD games on your PS2), but SRW has tons of awesome females main/support characters, a major exception to the rule. (and very dang welcome) These females aren't used as simple tools for forwarding the final arc for the guys to take over. Then there's the awesomeness that are Soukou no Strain and Jinki, and of course Gunbuster. (though the Jinki anime wasn't nearly as good as the manga, because they had too much material to stuff into 12 episodes) You don't see girls being damsels in distress in those either. But alas, as is my point again, if you're female in a mecha anime, 90%+ of the time you're not doing anything other than looking good at best. Which is why we'll most likely never see Mikono going into a steamrolling rampage of devastation against the Abductors to avenge Amata, as much as I'd like to see it and as awesome as it would be. Plus, as you pointed out as well, Kawamori likes to use the damsel in distress figure, so it's probaby even worse for Mikono. Quote:
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Last edited by Shinji103; 2012-02-09 at 23:39. |
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comedy, science fiction |
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