Shakugan no Shana II - Episode 24 [END] Discussion / Poll

[Cynor]

Originally Posted by FiREwing

I finally thought the stupid triangle would be over. Now with all the Kazumi fans and neautral people thinking otherwise makes me uneasy on what actually happened.

hehe, I know what you mean. Personally I think the ending was done in just the right way for them to either end it here or continue on, like some others have said.

I mean think about it, if they decide to have it end here then people will just assume (as they want them to) about who "won" due to the reactions. But, there is also enough play there for them to make another season if they want. I know D a m i e n wasn't serious with what he/she said, but actually that could be fairly close to the truth if they wanted to make another season. Well, not exactly obviously, but something close. There are really just too many ways to interrupt those reactions for a concrete ending. Though at the same time there aren't enough ways to make it open enough they HAVE to continue on with it in some way (aka like something in the middle of the season or an already planned/announced OVA/Season)

[finalnight]

JC Staff brutalized another second season ending.

[Aquifina]

Originally Posted by FiREwing

I finally thought the stupid triangle would be over. Now with all the Kazumi fans and neautral people thinking otherwise makes me uneasy on what actually happened.

Well, I think the triangle *is* settled. Sure, maybe they can stretch some relationship issues out in S3, but those last two scenes where Yoshida and Shana are clearly juxtaposed. We then see Shana looking grumpy, as if she's been waiting a while, and is trying to mask her nervousness and anxiety by being all gruff and annoyed. And *then* there's the recognition and the quick transition to the broad smile--really, what other conclusion can we come to? What, she ran into Wilhemina? Or Chigusa? Even though both are clearly implied to be doing different things at that moment? And in the context of that situation, I don't think Shana would smile like that if she just happened to run into Chigusa. A signal the season is over? Ummmm... no. Why pair it with the Kazumi scene, then? The whole ending sequence obviously implies actual actions by the characters at that time, not some kind of vague gesture to the audience. We first see the girls waiting, we see Yuji walking *with* the letters, etc., etc. I'm sorry; I find the idea that the triangle hasn't been settled to be absurd.

Really, that last scene was a wonderful tsundere moment for Shana. And one that clearly implied that she got her wish. The footprints scene may indeed be a setup for S3, but I believe it'll be one where the relationship conflicts work off of the premise of Yuji having made his choice. After all, even in the novels:

Spoiler for Novel spoiler just in case:

From what I gather, SOTF Yuji *does* confess to Shana, so there's no precedent in the novels for the love triangle to continue to be unresolved.

I for one enjoyed the season. A few episodes downright stunk, but this ep. redeemed the Konoe arc in *so* many ways. The ending song and scenes were *awesome*.

And although I assume that the ending of the series was left so ambiguous to allow for a S3, I for one liked the understated way the love triangle was handled. Yuji has never been terribly demonstrative of his feelings for Shana. Sure, there are plenty of hints, stretching back to S1, but the reunion at the end of S1, and the S1 episode where Yuji promises to stay by Shana's side are all very emotionally understated. We also very deliberately never get much of a window into his thought processes regarding Shana. This gives a few thin reeds for the Kazumi shippers to cling too.

J.C. Staff *did* botch his reactions during the infamous jealousy arc earlier this season, but take that away, and Yuji's character more or less works: an even-keel guy in love with Shana, but who thinks she only sees him as a comrade-in-arms, and one reluctant to dump Kazumi outright due to his general "niceness." The even-keel attitude fits well with his analytical abilities. Shana worsens the problems by continually denying her feelings, but with the letters, her confession *finally* happens. Now that I think about it, the girls pick the perfect way for Yuji to choose; nothing terribly dramatic, and one where there's as little awkwardness as possible between the three of them, but still, one where he *must* choose. I think it'd be terribly out-of-character for Yuji to make some kind of elaborate and corny confession, and he doesn't really need to. He just needs to show up. And we can best see that *not* from his perspective, which is so rarely used when dealing with Shana, but by just showing Shana's tsundere reaction as she goes from being the impatient tough-girl to smiling and lovestruck. With the music, it really worked for me, as did the whole season.

Konoe's tears were also a nice touch. It was a fitting development for her character's development, stretching back to S1. I'm also happy Kazumi did *not* die. The series is just too upbeat, I think, for that to have worked as an outcome.

[golthin]

Originally Posted by D a m i e n

come on people the end with shana smiling while yoshida cries is cristal clear, it s obvious he first went to shana to apologize and tell her he prefered yoshida before going for yoshida to spend his Xmass evening.
they only showed the shana smile /yoshida tears cause they though everyone would understand.

you see! that is why J.C. Staff did that! It is ambiguous! the is the cowardly way out.

[alvinkhorfire]

At the end of Episode 24 in season 1, there is an indication that there is a movie in production. For season 2, we don't have such indication. Well, we have to be remain hopeful for any possible OVA and movie.

[Owaranai Destiny]

Originally Posted by Aquifina

Well, I think the triangle *is* settled. Sure, maybe they can stretch some relationship issues out in S3, but those last two scenes where Yoshida and Shana are clearly juxtaposed. We then see Shana looking grumpy, as if she's been waiting a while, and is trying to mask her nervousness and anxiety by being all gruff and annoyed. And *then* there's the recognition and the quick transition to the broad smile--really, what other conclusion can we come to? What, she ran into Wilhemina? Or Chigusa? Even though both are clearly implied to be doing different things at that moment? And in the context of that situation, I don't think Shana would smile like that if she just happened to run into Chigusa. A signal the season is over? Ummmm... no. Why pair it with the Kazumi scene, then? The whole ending sequence obviously implies actual actions by the characters at that time, not some kind of vague gesture to the audience. We first see the girls waiting, we see Yuji walking *with* the letters, etc., etc. I'm sorry; I find the idea that the triangle hasn't been settled to be absurd.

Nice~ I'd agree with you there, because it wouldn't make sense if everything remained unresolved. Everyone has changed, and given Yuuji's determination in deciding things for himself firmly in the earlier episodes, as well as his 'fighting alongside Shana' emphasised again and again, especially in the last episode, J.C would be shooting themselves in the foot if they left the whole damned thing unresolved, because it simply isn't fitting for Yuuji to be so determined, then suddenly lacking decisiveness in such things. Even though there's a small indication that there might be another season to look forward to, the fact remains that one of the main focuses of the series itself has seen some decent closure

And for your nice little analysis of the scenes, a cookie to you.

[Triple_R]

I can honestly see Kazumi crying either way - crying tears of sadness if Shana was chosen, and crying tears of joy if she was chosen.

So, that alone would leave things open to plausible different interpretations, I think.

But Shana's smile seals it for me. I just can't imagine Shana smiling if Yuji chose Kazumi, or if he chickened out and chose nobody.

If Yuji chose Kazumi, Shana might cry a little bit herself - she certainly wouldn't be smiling.

If Yuji didn't choose anybody, I could see Shana getting angry and pouty and thinking "stupid Yuji!". Again, she wouldn't be smiling.

That being said, even I'll admit that JC Staff can contrive all sorts of things out of thin air - such as Yuji having never heard Shana say "I love you, Yuji." at the end of season 1.

So, it's not out of the question for there to be a Shana III, and for JC Staff to come up with some sort of lollerrific retcon to the Yuji chooses Shana or Kazumi scene.

[teelotes]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

That being said, even I'll admit that JC Staff can contrive all sorts of things out of thin air - such as Yuji having never heard Shana say "I love you, Yuji." at the end of season 1.

I could never quite get why so many of you are upset about this, since other anime series also employ similar devices. Either the girl said it and blatantly denied it later, making the guy wonder what he actually heard, or that she said it and at that moment something happened and the guy didn't hear.

Either way, Shana's character still deserves more development at that point, and ending the triangle by the first season would have been premature.

[teelotes]

Originally Posted by alvinkhorfire

At the end of Episode 24 in season 1, there is an indication that there is a movie in production. For season 2, we don't have such indication. Well, we have to be remain hopeful for any possible OVA and movie.

No extra Shana-tan episodes this time round? We've only had one so far.

I'll hope for a movie over an OVA, but the latter is more likely. Even then, it'll probably be some content unrelated to the main plot (maybe an onsen episode).

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by teelotes

I could never quite get why so many of you are upset about this, since other anime series also employ similar devices. Either the girl said it and blatantly denied it later, making the guy wonder what he actually heard, or that she said it and at that moment something happened and the guy didn't hear.

Either way, Shana's character still deserves more development at that point, and ending the triangle by the first season would have been premature.

Why would Shana saying "I love you, Yuji" end the love triangle? Kazumi made the same statement of "I love you" to Yuji at the mid-point of Season 1, and it didn't end the love triangle.

[teelotes]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Why would Shana saying "I love you, Yuji" end the love triangle? Kazumi made the same statement of "I love you" to Yuji at the mid-point of Season 1, and it didn't end the love triangle.

At that point, Yuji's decision was pretty obvious with the events leading up to Tenpa Josai. Yuji's realisation of Shana's sacrifice while being held captive by Hecate, and his choice to accompany her through the process of bringing Alastor into existence showed his determination. If he had clearly heard it then, I don't see how he would have thought otherwise.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by teelotes

At that point, Yuji's decision was pretty obvious with the events leading up to Tenpa Josai. Yuji's realisation of Shana's sacrifice while being held captive by Hecate, and his choice to accompany her through the process of bringing Alastor into existence showed his determination. If he had clearly heard it then, I don't see how he would have thought otherwise.

I don't think that this can only be seen through a romantic lens.

Yuji considers Shana as a comrade and a friend - maybe more, yes, but definitely those two. His actions here could be completely explained simply by his being a very grateful comrade and friend.

[Aquifina]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I don't think that this can only be seen through a romantic lens.

Yuji considers Shana as a comrade and a friend - maybe more, yes, but definitely those two. His actions here could be completely explained simply by his being a very grateful comrade and friend.

But none of that would explain Yuji wanting that kiss during the twins' arc or him thinking about how cute she was lying in bed.

[FiREwing]

Originally Posted by Aquifina

But none of that would explain Yuji wanting that kiss during the twins' arc or him thinking about how cute she was lying in bed.

Everyone bombed my doubts just now. I just wanna keep thinking this till 3rd season or OVA or movie to keep that good mood.

[Kristen]

Originally Posted by Aquifina

But none of that would explain Yuji wanting that kiss during the twins' arc or him thinking about how cute she was lying in bed.

Male hormones explains both of them.

[Aquifina]

Originally Posted by ChrissieXD

Male hormones explains both of them.

But there are no comparable scenes with Yoshida. No thinking about how cute she is, or wanting a kiss, even after she's starting to show a lot of interest in him.

[minhtam1638]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

So, it's not out of the question for there to be a Shana III, and for JC Staff to come up with some sort of lollerrific retcon to the Yuji chooses Shana or Kazumi scene.

How about Yuji spends Chirstmas with both of them?

[Tokkan]

If Shana never showed up when she did and Friagne never came to Misaki, I'm fairly certain that Yuji would be going for Kazumi. Regardless, he's found out he somehow doesn't belong with humans, and the only one of his close friends that will probably live as long as he will is Shana. As long as Kazumi isn't an eternally living mystes like Yuji himself or a flame haze like Shana, she will never have a real concrete chance at him. And though I do particularly like the idea of Kazumi becoming a flame haze, Satou has more chance at becoming a flame haze than her so why bother?

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Aquifina

But there are no comparable scenes with Yoshida. No thinking about how cute she is, or wanting a kiss, even after she's starting to show a lot of interest in him.

You make good points, Aquifina.

Yuji hasn't shown much in clear-cut romantic interest in either Shana or Kazumi, but he's shown more in Shana, I must admit.

minhtam2448 - Good idea. I could see JC Staff doing that.

[Aquifina]

Originally Posted by Tokkan

If Shana never showed up when she did and Friagne never came to Misaki, I'm fairly certain that Yuji would be going for Kazumi. Regardless, he's found out he somehow doesn't belong with humans, and the only one of his close friends that will probably live as long as he will is Shana. As long as Kazumi isn't an eternally living mystes like Yuji himself or a flame haze like Shana, she will never have a real concrete chance at him. And though I do particularly like the idea of Kazumi becoming a flame haze, Satou has more chance at becoming a flame haze than her so why bother?

I think this makes Yuji's preference for Shana a bit more *rational* than it is. Indeed, both Shana and Kazumi got ticked off at Yuji for trying to dump Kazumi using these sorts of practical reasons. The show has consistently tied Yuji to the human world, despite his otherworldy status--hence, all the slice-of-life stuff. By the end of the second season, even Shana is trying to keep Yuji connected to the human world--hence, how upset she was at his comments about his mother.

That being said, if Shana weren't around, then I think Yuji would definitely have gone after Kazumi. She's cute, nice, is much better "endowed" than Shana, and has all sorts of good points. In many ways, she's a far *better* match for Yuji than Shana, especially S1 Shana who is downright abusive and obnoxious in the way she treats Yuji early on.

And I think Yuji is genuinely fond of Kazumi. I for one have never agreed with Kazumi-hate. But arguably as early as that weird scene where Shana puts Yuji's cut body back together in that first fuzetsu, there's been this weird romantic tension between the two. I guess the other major scene would be the coffee on the roof.