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Old Yesterday, 19:24   Link #161
MCAL
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https://medium.com/@softwaredoug/her...ty-cb9a12e7d8b

So this is definitely a must read...
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Old Yesterday, 20:07   Link #162
Serovectra
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Rather than a citation-less piece, why not a video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TWCEV5U09c

That way you can see to just what degree both parties were involved. And how neither is innocent.

(Around the 5minute mark is the largest confrontation)
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Old Yesterday, 22:26   Link #163
Solace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serovectra View Post
Rather than a citation-less piece, why not a video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TWCEV5U09c

That way you can see to just what degree both parties were involved. And how neither is innocent.

(Around the 5minute mark is the largest confrontation)
Okay, so basically normal angry protesting until a hateful person drove a car through a crowd of people with the intention of killing them, and succeeding at least once while injuring many others.

Cool.
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Old Yesterday, 22:38   Link #164
Serovectra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
Okay, so basically normal angry protesting until a hateful person drove a car through a crowd of people with the intention of killing them, and succeeding at least once while injuring many others.

Cool.
One person did that. It wasn't a group activity. The guy also had schizophrenia and was prescribed anti-psychotics. Clearly not all there in the head.

The hard truth is what Trump originally said was not inaccurate and the media tried their damnedest to make it seem like the protesters were all innocent bystanders.

If you think hitting someone over the head with a bat or punching an older man in the head and face is "normal" then we've been in a state of regression all these years.

Last edited by Serovectra; Yesterday at 23:00.
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Old Yesterday, 23:26   Link #165
Solace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serovectra View Post
One person did that. It wasn't a group activity. The guy also had schizophrenia and was prescribed anti-psychotics. Clearly not all there in the head.

The hard truth is what Trump originally said was not inaccurate and the media tried their damnedest to make it seem like the anti-protesters were all innocent bystanders.

If you think hitting someone over the head with a bat or punching an older man in the head and face is "normal" then we've been in a state of regression all these years.
Seriously man, nothing at protests is normal. I've been to a few myself. Anyone not expecting at least minor scuffles when a racist rally happens in public really hasn't paid attention to history.

But clearly the tragedy was the result of a crazy person who just happened to go full crazy on the day he went to a racist rally. It's comforting isn't it? To believe that, and not that he was actually momentarily sane but wicked enough to act upon sick impulses.

I don't give a fuck what Trump says. Only what he does. And he hasn't done anything except waste a lot of taxpayer money vacationing as President while his full time job appears to be a Twitter bot that constantly says stupid shit that pisses people off.
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Old Yesterday, 23:37   Link #166
MeoTwister5
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There is enough historical evidence to support that true blooded Nazi's don't need to have a psychiatric condition to provoke or justify murder. Likewise, trying to justify that a/the Nazi only became murderous because of their mental problem and not because, you know, it's in their doctrine to be such shows such ignorance it is somewhat sickening.

It's even worse trying to make some sort of moral equivalency between the opposing mentalities. Sure it became violent, but again the violence makes the protesters (Nazis and supremacists) and their counter protesters somehow the same? This apologist cognitive dissonance is so insane and ridiculous that anyone taking that stance should be utterly ashamed of themselves.
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Old Yesterday, 23:43   Link #167
Serovectra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
Seriously man, nothing at protests is normal. I've been to a few myself. Anyone not expecting at least minor scuffles when a racist rally happens in public really hasn't paid attention to history.
And anyone not expecting serious injuries after hitting someone with a bat...hasn't paid much attention to physics. But this feels like a tangent, because the fact remains that both parties were violent, one did not exclusively instigate the other. They both had a permit, they both had a right to be there, and they both were violent.

Quote:
But clearly the tragedy was the result of a crazy person who just happened to go full crazy on the day he went to a racist rally. It's comforting isn't it? To believe that, and not that he was actually momentarily sane but wicked enough to act upon sick impulses.
Who really knows? I just don't see how one incident from a single person makes everyone at the rally culpable for his actions.

Quote:
I don't give a fuck what Trump says. Only what he does. And he hasn't done anything except waste a lot of taxpayer money vacationing as President while his full time job appears to be a Twitter bot that constantly says stupid shit that pisses people off.
Nor do I, but we're not everyone. Even if you don't like anything he does, there is no reason to cause a shitstorm on the occasions he does nothing wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5
There is enough historical evidence to support that true blooded Nazi's don't need to have a psychiatric condition to provoke or justify murder. Likewise, trying to justify that a/the Nazi only became murderous because of their mental problem and not because, you know, it's in their doctrine to be such shows such ignorance it is somewhat sickening.
What is your point? In any other instance you would concede the fact that a person with schizophrenia could do some spontaneously crazy thing, but because he's been labeled a white nationalist you can't accept that. Did anyone else at the rally kill people? I honestly don't know his mindset, but his condition does classify him as medically insane.

Quote:
It's even worse trying to make some sort of moral equivalency between the opposing mentalities. Sure it became violent, but again the violence makes the protesters (Nazis and supremacists) and their counter protesters somehow the same? This apologist cognitive dissonance is so insane and ridiculous that anyone taking that stance should be utterly ashamed of themselves.
I quantify people based on actions, not words. They both had the right to be there and speak their mind, they did not have the right to become violent. Both sides became violent, both sides are to blame.
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Old Today, 00:32   Link #168
Solace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serovectra View Post
Who really knows? I just don't see how one incident from a single person makes everyone at the rally culpable for his actions.
Because the right thing to do would be to express remorse for the death and distance from the criminal. Instead you get "the fat whore deserved it" and "too bad that was it". It's not like they told him to, or helped him do it, but they sure didn't mind it either.

Quote:
Nor do I, but we're not everyone. Even if you don't like anything he does, there is no reason to cause a shitstorm on the occasions he does nothing wrong.
His job as President is to be a good man. Good men don't look at violence like that and then make it seem like both sides are equivalent. Good men express remorse, call for unity, and don't triple down on bad form. Plenty of other Republicans did. He should have known better, but he likes stirring the pot.
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Old Today, 01:14   Link #169
MeoTwister5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serovectra View Post
What is your point? In any other instance you would concede the fact that a person with schizophrenia could do some spontaneously crazy thing, but because he's been labeled a white nationalist you can't accept that. Did anyone else at the rally kill people? I honestly don't know his mindset, but his condition does classify him as medically insane.



I quantify people based on actions, not words. They both had the right to be there and speak their mind, they did not have the right to become violent. Both sides became violent, both sides are to blame.
No. My point is that his schizophrenia (if he really does have it) does not negate the fact that his ideology already predisposes him to violence as per their beliefs. It does not mitigate him of any and all responsibility. Was he more inclined to violence than the rest of them? Perhaps, but he was already on that road to begin with. This was not some random schizophrenic who suddenly got a command auditory hallucination to go run over people.

Also not all schizophrenics are automatically assumed to be predisposed to violence. There are multiple types of schizophrenia. To equate them together does a massive disservice to struggling schizophrenics wrestling with their condition.

It was a powder keg situation started by a group already predisposed to violence. You could claim that it was a matter of "if" and not necessarily "when", but you allowed an ideology that has a proven historical track record of violent genocidal tendencies to congregate. To be surprised that it eventually went down that road regardless of the mental state of the perpetrator is asinine.

Both sides provokes each other, yes, but only one side proudly raises it's genocidal ideology and is already factually predisposed to violent action.
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Old Today, 01:32   Link #170
shadow1296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
No. My point is that his schizophrenia (if he really does have it) does not negate the fact that his ideology already predisposes him to violence as per their beliefs. It does not mitigate him of any and all responsibility. Was he more inclined to violence than the rest of them? Perhaps, but he was already on that road to begin with. This was not some random schizophrenic who suddenly got a command auditory hallucination to go run over people.

Also not all schizophrenics are automatically assumed to be predisposed to violence. There are multiple types of schizophrenia. To equate them together does a massive disservice to struggling schizophrenics wrestling with their condition.

It was a powder keg situation started by a group already predisposed to violence. You could claim that it was a matter of "if" and not necessarily "when", but you allowed an ideology that has a proven historical track record of violent genocidal tendencies to congregate. To be surprised that it eventually went down that road regardless of the mental state of the perpetrator is asinine.

Both sides provokes each other, yes, but only one side proudly raises it's genocidal ideology and is already factually predisposed to violent action.
If they are already predisposed to violent action why provoke them. If a bear is already likely to start violence before you poke it with a sharp stick what do you think will happen after you poke it.
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Old Today, 01:44   Link #171
MeoTwister5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow1296 View Post
If they are already predisposed to violent action why provoke them. If a bear is already likely to start violence before you poke it with a sharp stick what do you think will happen after you poke it.
It's a lose-lose situation. You could ignore them and play it "safe", but risk letting their ideology be heard, spread and likely have them act it out. You could confront them and find a way to stop their spread, but risk provoking them into action. Either way, there is a risk, and in ways society as a whole loses.

The only solution was to never have let it start in the first place. Hindsight is 20-20 and you can't really do that now. Now you either do nothing, or do something.
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Old Today, 02:21   Link #172
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
It's a lose-lose situation. You could ignore them and play it "safe", but risk letting their ideology be heard, spread and likely have them act it out.
Not only heard but legitimized. In a "if it was bad, someone would do something, right?" way. Not to mention the message that they are too scary to confront and therefore should be agreed with.
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Old Today, 02:47   Link #173
MeoTwister5
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Not only heard but legitimized. In a "if it was bad, someone would do something, right?" way. Not to mention the message that they are too scary to confront and therefore should be agreed with.
When good men do nothing, as the saying goes.
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Old Today, 03:14   Link #174
Ithekro
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Why is it the first thing I think of in this situation the Blues Brothers getting tied of being held up in traffic by the Illinois Nazi and just running them off the road/bridge?
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