(L) Yahari Ore no Seishun Love Come wa Machigatteiru.

[icebreaker]

Originally Posted by Totsuka

Yahari Ore no Seishun Love Come wa Machigatteiru 7.5

6.25 and now 7.5? What is he planning.

And what is this

[Shadow5YA]

Maybe we'll get a book from Yukino and/or Yui's perspective over the events of volume 6 or 7? It would be a nice change.

[Okashira]

Originally Posted by icebreaker

6.25 and now 7.5? What is he planning.

And what is this
http://i.imgur.com/gFLeOXq.jpg

Whoa. I thought that we would have to wait a lot since Watari is supervising the OVAs & the game, but he is totally going all out, excellent news.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by TheAlucid

I think that a relationship between Yui and Hachiman is possible if she learns to withstand the negative social baggage such a relationship would bring. But that's primarily because Yui accepts Hachiman for who he is. Hayama and Yukino wouldn't work out so much I think, because Hayama has indicated that he wants Yukino to have a bubbly/outgoing personality like her sister's.

Disclaimer: What I am going say right now don't have any relation with my shiping preference. I don't ship these two.

Hayama might say that he wish for Yukino be more like her sister, but that doesn't mean he want her have same personality. Otherwise he could just fall for Haruno in first place. Point is that both sisters are in a way very similiar, but Haruno is able put on fassade and get along with various people and that what he wish for Yukino. To learn make compromisses instead of force her way by power, which is naturaly reason for most her problems and lonelyness.

You should notice way he speaks about her, it's always related to her well-being, not his preferencess in girls. He pretty much says she would be happier if she weren't "too right for her own good"

EDIT: When I think about that, if Yukino somehow ended with him, it would mean Shizuka can take Hikki, doesn't it?

[TheAlucid]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Disclaimer: What I am going say right now don't have any relation with my shiping preference. I don't ship these two.

Hayama might say that he wish for Yukino be more like her sister, but that doesn't mean he want her have same personality. Otherwise he could just fall for Haruno in first place. Point is that both sisters are in a way very similiar, but Haruno is able put on fassade and get along with various people and that what he wish for Yukino. To learn make compromisses instead of force her way by power, which is naturaly reason for most her problems and lonelyness.

You should notice way he speaks about her, it's always related to her well-being, not his preferencess in girls. He pretty much says she would be happier if she weren't "too right for her own good"

EDIT: When I think about that, if Yukino somehow ended with him, it would mean Shizuka can take Hikki, doesn't it?

Granted, I think the scene where Hayama says that he wishes Yukino were more like her sister just revealed that Hayama doesn't see past Haruno's facade more than anything.

But I think Haruno personally doesn't want her little sister to turn out like her, a person as bitter as Hachiman when it comes to interacting with the world; and yet has to live day after day pretending she's someone she's not in order to appease the needs of her family. Hachiman at least can at least express himself, I imagine for Haruno it's stifling; she also probably appreciates Hachiman in no small part because he can see through her facade and interact with who she really is.

Yukino at this point isn't a bitter individual like Hachiman or her sister, her personality seems to be a mix of naivety and pride. She's unwilling to compromise her beliefs for the sake of others, but also doesn't seem to understand some of the most basic social cues; hence her reliance on Hachiman to translate things to her whenever she's confused by what Yui or others are saying around her.

I think my only problem with Hayama is that his personality seems mildly condescending; that he looks at Yukino and sees a problem to be fixed, and thinks that she must be unhappy with who she is. Likewise I think he pisses Hachiman off pretty badly at the end of volume 7 when he starts to pity Hachiman after confessing to Ebina. Like Hachiman wouldn't have done it if Hayama hadn't manipulated events to such an outcome, and that Hachiman is pathetic for putting his social life on the line to help out others.


Sensei is always there for the 8man, just a question of whether anyone marries her before Hachiman has to do so.

[Tenzen12]

I think there is big difference between be unhappy WHO someone is and be unhappy AS someone is. In Yukino case it's later. Yukino doesn't want change herself and thats why she is unhappy , instead she want change world that can't accept her as she is, which is pretty much lost fight from very beggening and thus she can't ever attain happiness and is destined to clash with everyone and everything.

Or that how it was until two individuals appeared who were able accept her and she got small sanctuary in form of Service Club. But outside of it very little changed.

Hayato is very perceptive person and were able perfectly assess Yukino feeling toward Hikki as well as owerall relationship in SC. I don't think he would do such mistake.

[TheAlucid]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

I think there is big difference between be unhappy WHO someone is and be unhappy AS someone is. In Yukino case it's later. Yukino doesn't want change herself and thats why she is unhappy , instead she want change world that can't accept her as she is, which is pretty much lost fight from very beggening and thus she can't ever attain happiness and is destined to clash with everyone and everything.

Or that how it was until two individuals appeared who were able accept her and she got small sanctuary in form of Service Club. But outside of it very little changed.

Granted, but she's not destined to clash with everyone. As you expressed: people like Hachiman, who are weary with a two-faced world and jaded about basic human social structure, find Yukino to be a breath of fresh air. That someone would honestly express their feelings is novel, and Hachiman becomes so wrapped up in this image of her that he becomes seriously upset when he finds out she also lies.

I think to some extent Haruno wants to preserve that in her as well, as her life has been spent capitulating to the needs of others. Yukino's only problem is that she doesn't know how to pull her verbal punches when talking to another party.

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Hayato is very perceptive person and were able perfectly assess Yukino feeling toward Hikki as well as owerall relationship in SC. I don't think he would do such mistake.

I'm not saying that Hayato isn't perceptive, it's just that it seems like he believes his own brand of happiness is the only one that matters.

That he would feel Yukino's personality needs to be corrected and saying as much, rather than facilitating whatever personality Yukino harbors and supporting her should she decide to change it. That he would pity rather than respect Hachiman for helping others at the cost of social coinage, something Hachiman puts little to no sense of value in and can spend freely.

I don't think Hayato is by any means bad for this, it just might be some amount of arrogance is an inevitable consequence of being popular all his life. He has a hard time seeing how people would not want to live like him, or share his values.

[kazzuya13]

Originally Posted by TheAlucid

Granted, but she's not destined to clash with everyone. As you expressed: people like Hachiman, who are weary with a two-faced world and jaded about basic human social structure, find Yukino to be a breath of fresh air. That someone would honestly express their feelings is novel, and Hachiman becomes so wrapped up in this image of her that he becomes seriously upset when he finds out she also lies.

I think to some extent Haruno wants to preserve that in her as well, as her life has been spent capitulating to the needs of others. Yukino's only problem is that she doesn't know how to pull her verbal punches when talking to another party.




I'm not saying that Hayato isn't perceptive, it's just that it seems like he believes his own brand of happiness is the only one that matters.

That he would feel Yukino's personality needs to be corrected and saying as much, rather than facilitating whatever personality Yukino harbors and supporting her should she decide to change it. That he would pity rather than respect Hachiman for helping others at the cost of social coinage, something Hachiman puts little to no sense of value in and can spend freely.

I don't think Hayato is by any means bad for this, it just might be some amount of arrogance is an inevitable consequence of being popular all his life. He has a hard time seeing how people would not want to live like him, or share his values.

Everyone has their own set of values and it doesn't mean bad if their values on their own perspective is bad. Take for example the relationship between hachiman and Yukino both their values and perspective overlaps each other and even if their friction in their relationship it doesn't mean they have a bad relationship. And because of this valuing system arises the existence of both acceptance and rejection.

[Okashira]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

I think there is big difference between be unhappy WHO someone is and be unhappy AS someone is. In Yukino case it's later. Yukino doesn't want change herself and thats why she is unhappy , instead she want change world that can't accept her as she is, which is pretty much lost fight from very beggening and thus she can't ever attain happiness and is destined to clash with everyone and everything.

Huh? But Yukino has stated a bunch of times that Yukino is ok with changing herself (remember that "strive for salvation" bit from the first chapter; Hikki is the one with the unchanging posture), the thing is that her meaning of change is usually "improve oneself", and she does so by being "strict" to herself, which reflects on her being also strict to the world, which is why pretty much no one can keep up with her.

She is obviously in the process of developing more sides & concepts of herself other than being "strict". It's kinda ironic that having being more open about Hikki's accident would have helped her.


Also, Hayama didn't manipulated Hikki, he was only aware that Hikki was going to do some crazy stuff, but he couldn't grasp the true consequences after the deal was over (ergo, he felt that he had to apologize). Also Hikki doing what he did had more relationship with who Ebina is and what she thinks; and not what Hayato wants, this is foreshadowed in the last conversation of the volume.

[TheAlucid]

Originally Posted by kazzuya13

Everyone has their own set of values and it doesn't mean bad if their values on their own perspective is bad. Take for example the relationship between hachiman and Yukino both their values and perspective overlaps each other and even if their friction in their relationship it doesn't mean they have a bad relationship. And because of this valuing system arises the existence of both acceptance and rejection.

To the contrary, I think that they bickered with each other at the beginning because that was pretty much the only way they knew how to interact honestly with another person. Yukino never had a friend and Hachiman thought friendships were myths at that point; and eventually the bickering had grown into some kind of private interaction between the two of them. Like some kind of old couple.

That being said, I'm not sure how much Hachiman and Yukino's values overlap beyond both being perceptive enough to see the true intentions of other people. Where Yukino is naive and headstrong, Hachiman is jaded and compromising. Yukino actually makes a point throughout the series about how upsetting she finds Hachiman's perspective for all that it's proven helpful.

Spoilers are some pictures from the manga to help express my point about them enjoying fighting each other.

Spoiler for Chap3_pg19-20:

[TheAlucid]

Originally Posted by Okashira

Also, Hayama didn't manipulated Hikki, he was only aware that Hikki was going to do some crazy stuff, but he couldn't grasp the true consequences after the deal was over (ergo, he felt that he had to apologize). Also Hikki doing what he did had more relationship with who Ebina is and what she thinks; and not what Hayato wants, this is foreshadowed in the last conversation of the volume.

Not saying he did, rather I'm saying that his pity was condescending enough as to suggest that he felt responsible for Hachiman's actions. Like Hayato had manipulated him. From Hachiman's perspective in turn, Hayato is belittling him by implying that Hayato is responsible for Hachiman's actions because it was Hayato's request.

I'm not saying Hachiman is angry because he was manipulated, I'm saying he's angry because Hayato is condescending enough to act like he manipulated Hachiman.

P.S. Gawd, talk about beating a dead horse, hopefully restating the same point three times will get the distinction across, even if it's the syntax is a little jarring.

[kazzuya13]

Originally Posted by TheAlucid

To the contrary, I think that they bickered with each other at the beginning because that was pretty much the only way they knew how to interact honestly with another person. Yukino never had a friend and Hachiman thought friendships were myths at that point; and eventually the bickering had grown into some kind of private interaction between the two of them. Like some kind of old couple.

That being said, I'm not sure how much Hachiman and Yukino's values overlap beyond both being perceptive enough to see the true intentions of other people. Where Yukino is naive and headstrong, Hachiman is jaded and compromising. Yukino actually makes a point throughout the series about how upsetting she finds Hachiman's perspective for all that it's proven helpful.

Spoilers are some pictures from the manga to help express my point about them enjoying fighting each other.

Spoiler for Chap3_pg19-20:

Yukino always stated that changed is good and one must always strives to be better. Meanwhile Hachiman stated change is a lie and nobody ever change they only get better at lying. Like for example you lie about yourself to be accepted to a group.

[TheAlucid]

Originally Posted by kazzuya13

Yukino always stated that changed is good and one must always strives to be better. Meanwhile Hachiman stated change is a lie and nobody ever change they only get better at lying. Like for example you lie about yourself to be accepted to a group.

I won't argue against that, my post was more about how their values don't overlap, rather than that they do.

[kazzuya13]

Originally Posted by TheAlucid

I won't argue against that, my post was more about how their values don't overlap, rather than that they do.

As the saying goes "As long as there is conflict there is a compromise" and everything is not always black and white.

[TheAlucid]

Originally Posted by kazzuya13

As the saying goes "As long as there is conflict there is a compromise" and everything is not always black and white.

Yarr, I would go so far as to say that 'black and white' is by far the exception. Pretty much everything is a shade of gray.

[kazzuya13]

Originally Posted by TheAlucid

Yarr, I would go so far as to say that 'black and white' is by far the exception. Pretty much everything is a shade of gray.

Gray mostly represents the compromise.

[TheAlucid]

Originally Posted by kazzuya13

Gray mostly represents the compromise.

Yes... And the black and white mostly represent opposing ideologies. I'm not sure where you're going with this.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by Okashira

Huh? But Yukino has stated a bunch of times that Yukino is ok with changing herself (remember that "strive for salvation" bit from the first chapter; Hikki is the one with the unchanging posture), the thing is that her meaning of change is usually "improve oneself", and she does so by being "strict" to herself, which reflects on her being also strict to the world, which is why pretty much no one can keep up with her.
.

Maybe I didn't make it clear, but yes I know that much. My point is improving oneselelf you get just better version of same.

[kazzuya13]

Originally Posted by TheAlucid

Yes... And the black and white mostly represent opposing ideologies. I'm not sure where you're going with this.

It can also represents the view of the subject matter. Like in this in which their ideal view of a perfect society. For Yukino it is changed oneself for the improvement of self. While on the other hand is hachiman is contrast to Yukino which is there is no need to change. In this statement you can't say whether Hachiman nor Yukino's ideal is black or white or which is right or wrong.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by TheAlucid

That being said, I'm not sure how much Hachiman and Yukino's values overlap beyond both being perceptive enough to see the true intentions of other people. Where Yukino is naive and headstrong, Hachiman is jaded and compromising. Yukino actually makes a point throughout the series about how upsetting she finds Hachiman's perspective for all that it's proven helpful.

Spoilers are some pictures from the manga to help express my point about them enjoying fighting each other.

Spoiler for Chap3_pg19-20:

What? No, that contradicts Hachiman's beliefs. According to him, if you "compromise" you really lie to yourself to make yourself feel better for conceding to the other side.

Hachiman never met at the middle for anyone. All his solutions were his idea and carried out with no changes.

Originally Posted by TheAlucid

To the contrary, I think that they bickered with each other at the beginning because that was pretty much the only way they knew how to interact honestly with another person. Yukino never had a friend and Hachiman thought friendships were myths at that point; and eventually the bickering had grown into some kind of private interaction between the two of them. Like some kind of old couple.

I would say the bickering back then was just lip service. They say what they want and the other side does the same. It was more akin to venting than an actual conversation, even if venting is still something better than what they had when they were alone. They were forced to be together by Shizuka, so they went with the flow.

Volume 5 revealed that despite all the times they talked, Hachiman still knew nothing about Yukino's circumstances outside of school, and back then he didn't want to know. Then after summer break was over and the two did have something serious to be upset over (Yukino lying about the accident), they didn't talk at all.

When it came down to it, they weren't friends.

Only when the school festival hit and Yukino took a day off did Hachiman decide to talk to her for real and want to know more about Yukino's side of the story for the accident.

I would say for volume 7, this is the first time Yukino has actually grown angry towards Hachiman. If anything, this is would be their first real fight.