2007-02-16, 21:39 | Link #1 |
Ninja Emperor
Join Date: Oct 2004
Age: 38
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[manga] Naruto's "Real Body"
I've noticed that Kishimoto seems to be contradicting his story when it comes to the nature of Kagebunshin no jutsu.
When this jutsu was first introduced it was said that unlike Bunshin no jutsu where there is a real ninja and fake illusions casted by that ninja, Kagebunshins are all real copies of the ninja with chakra evenly distributed between each clone. It was shown that when a Kagebunshin was attacked they would disappear until there was only one user left and at that point the jutsu is dispelled and the remaining clone is the real ninja. Kagebunshin is a jounin level move and since it is a kinjutsu (forebidden technique) only a select few ninja can use the jutsu and are aware of its true nature, Naruto being able to make more clones than average since he is a chakra freak. Therefore there are certain times when a ninja faces an opponent with this techinque is ignorant of the fact that there is no real body. For instance Neji, who likely would have never read this specific forebidden scroll, believed that there must be a real body and decided to attack the clone that seemed most hesitant to attack him. Naruto was aware of this and made his clone pretend to be hurt then attacked him with a different clone, capitalizing on Neji's assumption. There have been filler scenes where it is indicated that there is a real body, such as when Sasuke attacked Naruto and then boasted that he could see the real body between the clones with his sharingan. We can blame the animators for that. However Kishi has contradicted the story in the manga itself, as early back as when Naruto turned himself into a large shuriken and had his clone hide him in his backpack. He then threw himself to Sasuke in order to trick Zabuza into releasing Kakashi. However after freeing Kakashi when Naruto was in the water Zabuza tried to attack him and Kakashi (who knows Kage-bushin all to well) sacrificed his own arm to block Zabuza. The clone on the land later disappeared, even though logically the clone in the water that freed Kakashi should have been disposable (he also recaps his plan mentioning his "real" body so there is no way around this contradiction). The manga has been contradicted once again in this battle with Kakuzu. Naruto defeats him by "risking his real body" on the attack and using a decoy to cast his new jutsu all the while performing the same jutsu behind his back (the old bait and switch ). Now maybe Kakuzu was just as ignorant as Neji was being that he is not a Leaf ninja and does not have access to the hidden scrolls, he could have assumed there was a real body himself. But the reaction of Kakashi once again indicate that there is a "real body" when Kagebunshin is cast.
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2007-02-17, 00:16 | Link #3 |
Eyebrows...
Join Date: May 2004
Age: 37
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To be honest I think your initial interpretation was wrong. Never was it said that an advantage of Kage Bunshin was the lack of a real body. It was the fact that all the clones are exact duplicates of the original, from their physical presence to their amount of chakra. In the Neji fight, Naruto doesn't say "Got ya, the real body is the last one to survive," he says "I've been attacking you the whole time." It's never implied that Neji's interpretation was wrong - the mistake he made was thinking that Naruto would play it safe and use his clones for cover.
Naruto usually uses his real body for the decisive attack and it's not entirely clear why. The bad guys often correctly assume that that's the case, too. Frankly I think this is just unimaginative writing on Kishimoto's part. He knows that Naruto would never be in real danger if he fought intelligently and so he just decides not to make that happen. |
2007-02-17, 01:52 | Link #4 | ||
セクシーなパイロット
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Kentucky
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The only sorta contradiction I can think of is that typically the clones disappear from a single hit immediately but when Neji hit what he thought was the real Naruto in their match, the clone managed to stick around long enough to distract Neji for the real Naruto and another clone to get behind him. |
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2007-02-17, 02:38 | Link #5 | |
Ninja Emperor
Join Date: Oct 2004
Age: 38
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I went back to the manga, where team 7 was originally trying to get the bells from Kakashi and he explains the jutsu. All he says is that the clones are "real" copies of the ninja casting them, not that none of the bodies are real. Infact in that fight when Kakashi uses kawamiri to switch Naruto's clone with himself Naruto's clones start beating the hell out of each other and then one clone tells the real Naruto to cancel the jutsu. Spoiler for Naruto's beat up clone:
That's one additional instance btw where a clone does not disperse from one strike but takes damage the way one did against Neji.
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2007-02-17, 07:13 | Link #6 | |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
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I don't know whether or not it is just uncreative writing or not, but one could argue that the clones are not destroyed by the recieved strike so much as dispelled på Naruto himself. It would make perfect sense when you think about it: if you have 2 clones with one third of your chakra each and one gets wounded, you would - in all likelyhood - dispell that wounded clone to make the remaining clone stronger and thus more efficient. |
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2007-02-17, 07:58 | Link #7 |
Konoha's ANBU
Join Date: Dec 2005
Age: 38
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One thing i dont understand is....if the Kage Bunshins are exact copies....(in Naruto's case) how come some seem smarter?
example: (Throwing a rock to hit a target) While throwing a rock and you throw it on different ways...it will be obvious that atleast one throwing technique will be better. This is just a experiment...which will become (new) experience... But quick thinking....logical thinking....intelligence...the brains....shouldnt they be the exact same? It was funny because during his training Naruto said: "That me is good"
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2007-02-17, 09:30 | Link #9 | ||
Golden
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: 9th Temple
Age: 45
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Well, I think it could also be that Neei strikes are more stronger compared to Naruto's, also, The amount of chakra the clones are made of, will help on how resistant the clones are. Quote:
Maybe they are just using the better half of Naruto's brain...
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2007-02-17, 12:49 | Link #12 | |
日本語を食べません!
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: San Francisco
Age: 41
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During training, though, it would make sense to have your clones each do something different. Using the rock analogy, you'd have some clones practice throwing overhand, some throwing underhand, some throwing for distance, some throwing for accuracy. Of course a few would be better than others depending on what they're doing. |
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2007-02-21, 02:31 | Link #14 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
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i think that the strength of the attack that can actually kill or maim the user of the kagebunshin dispels it, so it would make sense if the sandaime's KB withstood some butt kickin'. in some cases however they might be "programmed"(for the lack of a better term) to dispel in a weaker (relatively) attack.
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2007-02-21, 04:26 | Link #16 | |
REdiculous (see profile)
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: I live in a freakin' desert...not even a cool desert with cacti and stuff...just a whole lot o' nada
Age: 40
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And the reason they can't be the remaining real body is because they are not the real body...they don't go too in depth into it, but there could be any number of reasons (life force seperate from chakra, the soul, the ego, etc.). Besides...I don't think that the copies are absolutely perfect...that would mean that inside each one of Naruto's thousand clones there is a clone Kitsune waiting to unleash screaming temporal doom upon the earth... ...that'd be an interesting technique...make 1000 clones and then release the seals on all of them...then you'd have 1000 screaming mad demon foxes running around... |
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2007-02-21, 06:19 | Link #17 | ||
Bubbly and super fun
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Doesn't look like Kansas
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Anyway no it was never even slightly implied. With events like Kidoumaru playing with Naruto's clones to find the real body, Neji thinking he had found who Naruto trully was, Kakuzu believing he could ignore the clone by striking the real Naruto, Kakashi trying to find the real rock Ninja among his KB, etc. I don't even understand how anyone could say it was implied at all, much less strongly implied. |
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2007-02-21, 10:17 | Link #18 | |
Golden
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: 9th Temple
Age: 45
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The fact that this has happens is jut to bring some emotions in those scenes.
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2007-02-22, 01:04 | Link #19 | |
REdiculous (see profile)
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: I live in a freakin' desert...not even a cool desert with cacti and stuff...just a whole lot o' nada
Age: 40
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True that...I honestly didn't think it was even an arguable issue that there was a single real-body. |
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2007-02-22, 05:43 | Link #20 | ||
Bubbly and super fun
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Doesn't look like Kansas
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So no you can certainely not turn around the argument, just like you can't say that KB naturally have the ability to shot laser beam through their eyes just because it was never said that they don't. Quote:
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