KanColle - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[arkhangelsk]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Considering what the American destroyers and destroyer escorts pulled off and Samar, Fubuki hurting a Wo is not out of the question.

The primary weapon there was the torpedo IIRC...

TL;DR…

Klashikari

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

The primary weapon there was the torpedo IIRC...

Chikuma was raked by fire of 5in guns from Samuel B. Roberts and Heermann.

We are given a time to repair damage of a carrier from a torpedo (15H).

Akagi was already in the bath for some time. The damage she took from the torpedo therefore took far longer than 15 hours to repair.

The story heavily implies they cannot freely move since they fold rabbits and do other things to pass the time in the bath.

It doesn't imply anything in that sorts. You are making a mental error. To repair damage they have to stay the displayed time in the bath, meaning they use the time to do various things like folding rabbits. This has nothing to do with whether they can get out of the bath for a time - during which the damage isn't further repaired - or not since they don't repair damage while out of the bath.

Further, at 8:15 of Ep8 they will establish Shokaku has finished her 入渠.

入渠 = entering a dock. It doesn't mean finishing the repair process.

If they had even one more destroyer, they could have made a picket screen of sorts even after dumping Fubuki and Kongo. That in itself could have improved this Getting Hammered scene into a meeting engagement.

Whether you have one destroyer or two doing this doesn't matter. Besides you are ignoring weather conditions. In these weather conditions advanced warning is limited by visual contact. Place a couple of DDs further out does nothing, since the planes will just fly over them out of visual range before dipping down when closing in on the big targets.

Can't bring the game back in just when it is convenient :-)

This is ridiculous. Klashikari's clearly distinguished between when he's referencing game, anime and reality. The one who mingles all together is you.

Since you said I shouldn't use the game, we are left with reality as a external reference. So, we have a destroyer, armed with a 5-inch gun, Heavily Damaging a carrier with one shell (not torpedo, gun). You tell me if there is something forced about this :-)

Again, since when was it confirmed that the Wo was taiha'd? Ithekro has already pointed out, false estimates happened quite often. Considering the overall state of the Wo and the short time they had observing her it isn't unlikely that Fubuki and the others erred in the estimation of the damage inflicted.

[arkhangelsk]

Originally Posted by Kakurin-san

Chikuma was raked by fire of 5in guns from Samuel B. Roberts and Heermann.

They raked, but most of the damage was done by the torpedoes.

Though I might as well apologize here for confusing you for Sheba.

The damage she took from the torpedo therefore took far longer than 15 hours to repair.

I'll grant you that possibility, but nevertheless having established fixes like that, now to change it takes a new setup.

It doesn't imply anything in that sorts. You are making a mental error. To repair damage they have to stay the displayed time in the bath, meaning they use the time to do various things like folding rabbits. This has nothing to do with whether they can get out of the bath for a time - during which the damage isn't further repaired - or not since they don't repair damage while out of the bath.

You are going to be sitting there folding rabbits and popping styrofoam when you can just take regular trips out of the bathroom to get your manga, your novel, whatever? The clear implication is that you can't, especially when someone has to go to read the combat report to them rather than them just going out for a few minutes to get it.

入渠 = entering a dock. It doesn't mean finishing the repair process.

It is actually better described as a state of being in the dock. Unless you think that you can finish a 入渠 by just entering it and getting right back out. The question would be meaningless.

Whether you have one destroyer or two doing this doesn't matter. Besides you are ignoring weather conditions. In these weather conditions advanced warning is limited by visual contact. Place a couple of DDs further out does nothing, since the planes will just fly over them out of visual range before dipping down when closing in on the big targets.

We are in an overcast. To spot ships, the planes will have to be below the clouds, which limits their altitude.

At the very least, if they had a picket out in their rear, they might have picked up those torpedo planes. Even an extra minute, given how fast a kanmusu launches a plane, could improve things significantly.

This is ridiculous. Klashikari's clearly distinguished between when he's referencing game, anime and reality. The one who mingles all together is you.

I've noticed that he tries to alternate between game logic (the Type 0 recce plane having a much higher LOS value than the Type 97) and other logic (such as suggesting that people can get out of the dock) when it is convenient.

Again, since when was it confirmed that the Wo was taiha'd? Ithekro has already pointed out, false estimates happened quite often.

First, they are very very close, too close for a mistaken recognition. If you want to say Fubuki can't really tell, I'm cool, but then she shouldn't have entered Tai-Ha into her report. People make estimates based on what you report, you know.

[Klashikari]

Okay, I guess this is my final answer because at this rate, it just doesn't go anywhere.

TL;DR…

 

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

If you want to say Fubuki can't really tell, I'm cool, but then she shouldn't have entered Tai-Ha into her report. People make estimates based on what you report, you know.

The Japanese reported numerous times that an American carrier has been sunk despite not *actually* witnessing the ship going down. Fubuki and the others saw the Wo with an eye injury and *assumed* that she was taiha'd, which from their perspective might be right, since they are more human and thus for them an eye injury is taiha, whereas the Abyssals are more cyborg / machine. I don't see how you can blame Fubuki for entering that assumption into the report. Again sounds like cherrypicking for specifically blaming Fubuki.

[arkhangelsk]

Like Klashikari, I don't think I can come up with a creative argument this round that would convince my stubborn opposition. Since I'm sure such feelings are mutual, I'll call this my last too :-)

The Japanese reported numerous times that an American carrier has been sunk despite not *actually* witnessing the ship going down.

That's not supposed to be a good part. And Fubuki has a much closer and calmer look than most of those Japanese you mention.

Fubuki and the others saw the Wo with an eye injury and *assumed* that she was taiha'd, which from their perspective might be right, since they are more human and thus for them an eye injury is taiha, whereas the Abyssals are more cyborg / machine. I don't see how you can blame Fubuki for entering that assumption into the report. Again sounds like cherrypicking for specifically blaming Fubuki.

So your solution is that it was actually more a Shoha, but Fubuki did not really know what she was talking about and got overly impressed by the eye damage? I'll applaud that this is actually a plausible in-universe (Watsonian) solution, though IMO it really still doesn't excuse the authors.

Even if I assume that's what they were shooting for ... really, I think I'll be happier they ruled that Fubuki shot the eye (the only part she could control, so the fact she did a Shoha is no discredit to her), realized it was really a Shoha, and wrote it in the report as such.

[Ithekro]

On a standard fleet carrier of that time...

A five inch shell hits either the bridge or the hanger deck just in front of the bridge. If they are that close a five inch shell could go through what armor might be there. The unarmored flightdeck gets damaged from the shell blowing up inside the hanger and possibly putting shrapnel into the bridge. The other way puts a hole in the bridge. This is followed by a massive torpedo spread that is intercepted by a brave heavy cruiser, which is sunk by doing so.

Now there is a lone carrier with enemy units on one side and a squall on the other. The flight deck or bridge is damaged. A call for retreat is advisible.

If we take Abyssal repairs to be like Allied repairs (to keep with the repeating tragady theme) than that Wo will be repaired enough to get the flight deck or bridge functional ina very short period of time. She will still be damaged, but functional in a way that would be more than expected by the shipgirls. (Such is the nature of having superior damage control teams). Basically the Wo took a crit that did lots of damage, but if she has damage control, she goes up a set or so without needing to go home. This would also fit with any allusion to them being the Yorktowns.

[Xero8420]

^
Oh yeah, right. Revenge of the Wo-class flagship. Probably she wanted to seek revenge against Fubuki for getting shot right into the eye.