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GaimeGuy · 2009-08-18, 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7thFonon

So I just finished watching Episode 20 of FMA Brotherhood and I am just confused.... Not sure how to make a spoiler icon, so I'll just give a warning that my post might be a spoiler to some....

spoilers

Anyways, I have a question about the humans transmuted (like Ed's Mom). I'm a little confused about this. The body in Ed's mother's grave was a male. So were there two grave-sites??

What I mean is.... Ed's mom died first (before transmutation) and she was buried. That was definitely Trisha (Ed's Mom).

So when Ed and Al fail at reviving Trisha, her in-human body is buried at a different location than her first grave-site right? It couldn't have been buried at the same grave-site she was originally buried in because Trisha's "real" body would still be there (since that Transmutation wasn't actually her), and Ed would see that there were now two bodies....

Then Al's soul went to that in-human body, but it was rejected.... So for the transmutation, Al basically traded his original body for another body (the transmuted body)? Who could they have possibly transmuted for that extra body when using their blood? At first I thought (using what I know from the first FMA) it could have been Al's body from the "other side", but that couldn't be since Ed said that the hair was black and Al's hair is more like blonde.

So I'm pretty confused on this whole subject. I've never read the manga, so there is probably more to come that will help me understand... But at this point, I'm just not getting what's going on with this "not actually being Ed's Mom".

That's all there is to it... you can't recreate someone's mind, body , and soul.

Spoiler for explanation:

Up until this point, Ed, Izumi, and Al have all believed that reviving the dead was possible, but that the theories they developed were incomplete. Since they believed their theories were incomplete, they also believe that the things they transmuted.... ie, Izumi's baby and Trisha, were the real thing, just incomplete.... Izumi thought that she had transmuted her baby only to end up killing it again... same thing with Ed and Al with regards to their mother. They thought they had revived her in an incomplete form that could not survive, and so they ended up making her suffer through an additional death.

But Ed, Al, and Izumi were all wrong. It was not that their theories were incomplete: the very underlying assumption that you can revive the dead was wrong. Yes, they created something... but it was in no way, shape, form, or nature the thing they wanted to create.

btw.... with regards to the whole soul/body thing (which was kind of skimmed over), here is the full gist of it from the manga

Basically:
1. Al has memories from before being affixed to the armor that Winry can verify as real memories... memories that Ed doesn't have. Therefore, the soul Ed affixed to the armor was Al's soul. In addition......

2. Al has memories from after being affixed to the armor. Memories are stored in the brain, so Al's body must still exist, and his brain must be fully functioning, because.....

3. Alchemic theory states that humans are made up of three components: The mind, the body, and the soul. Ed believes that the body and soul are connected by the mind, which is why a body is attracted to a particular soul... this is backed up by what happened with Barry the chopper... his soul was attracted to his body since they had a common link through the mind, and barry was able to locate his body based on basically pure instinct.
In other words, Al's soul is currently forced onto the armor suit, and is connected with his missing body through his mind.

4. Al's body was not taken to transmute Trisha, but as a fee to go through the gate... and Ed's arm was used as a fee to pull out al's soul. Trisha was dead... she couldn't be revived, because she didn't exist anymore. On the other hand, Ed was able to retrieve Al's soul... it shouldn't be possible to be able to pull something from the gate that is non-existant, so Ed can only conclude that Al is still alive somewhere in there...

Furthermore, Ed realizes that when he reached his hand out for Trisha (see episode 2 of brotherhood), she wasn't there.. Al realizes that when he reached his hand out... it was his body that was there (see episode 14), and he then saw Ed from the view of the thing that they transmuted(again, see episode 14, al's memories).... Al's soul was fixed to that thing for a few seconds, but was quickly rejected and went back to the gate... then Ed retrieved it from the gate and forced it onto the armor.

The rest of Al is still inside the gate.

7thFonon · 2009-08-18, 11:04

That makes sense. And now I get what Ed was saying about the memory of him, Al, and Winry on Episode 20 as well. Thanks for clearing that up for me =)

wsheit · 2009-08-19, 22:10

So this has probably been broached before, but I looked a bit and didn't see an easy way to get an answer without the threat of seeing some spoilers.

I watched the original series up to around ep 27, and I remember

Spoiler:

I got caught up in other things and never got to finish the series. Now, I'm watching Brotherhood and

Spoiler:

They've covered 25 eps in 10? So I went looking for plot summaries of the old series to refresh my memory. Some of the stuff in the old series seems like filler, but some of it (that isn't in the new series) seems substantive. Is Brotherhood leaving manga material out? Or did Bones come up with all of the extra stuff in the old series?

GaimeGuy · 2009-08-19, 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by wsheit

So this has probably been broached before, but I looked a bit and didn't see an easy way to get an answer without the threat of seeing some spoilers.

I watched the original series up to around ep 27, and I remember

Spoiler:

I got caught up in other things and never got to finish the series. Now, I'm watching Brotherhood and

Spoiler:

They've covered 25 eps in 10? So I went looking for plot summaries of the old series to refresh my memory. Some of the stuff in the old series seems like filler, but some of it (that isn't in the new series) seems substantive. Is Brotherhood leaving manga material out? Or did Bones come up with all of the extra stuff in the old series?

Brotherhood is leaving some manga material out (for pacing/budget reasons, really), but the first anime literally did its own thing for the most part.

Let's put it this way: Nothing past ~chapter 30 (and not nearly everything from before chapter 30, and certainly not enough to be considered an adaptation trying to be faithful to the manga) of the manga was used in the first anime. A good deal of anime-original filler was created for FMA1 that has nothing to do with the manga canon, characters die in the show who aren't even dead yet in the manga (and vice versa), several of the homunculus (and other characters) were completely different, the main story is completely different, and many of the main characters in the first anime don't even exist at all in the manga (IE: Archer and Dante), and the majority of the characters that show up in the manga either have their roles greatly reduced or are omitted completely from the first anime.

Chapter 98 of Full Metal Alchemist just came out last week. It should finish within a year or so, at somewhere between 103-106 chapters (we're thigh deep in the final arc).

NOTHING past episode 13 in Brotherhood was touched upon in the first anime. Hell, the character death you mentioned happens at the very end of chapter 15 of the manga, but not until over 25 episodes are done in the first anime.

Rurik · 2009-08-25, 09:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaimeGuy

Chapter 98 of Full Metal Alchemist just came out last week. It should finish within a year or so, at somewhere between 103-106 chapters (we're thigh deep in the final arc)..

Wow, is this really oficial?

Can't wait to get fully updated on the Manga then. this manga is published montly, right?

Haladflire65 · 2009-08-25, 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rurik

Wow, is this really oficial?

Can't wait to get fully updated on the Manga then. this manga is published montly, right?

Yeah, around the 10th of every month... Scans are up quite quickly, since FMA has such a huge fanbase.

Vicious108 · 2009-08-25, 13:55

They were pretty late this month actually... but yes it's usually on the 10th.

The waits keep getting harder too.

Haladflire65 · 2009-08-25, 14:05

Yeah, the cliffies are brutal. What is it with Arakawa and cliffhangers, anyway?

Vicious108 · 2009-08-25, 15:19

And Brotherhood hasn't been doing them justice unfortunately. Well save for episode 19 that is. That one was great.

velvet nightmare · 2009-08-31, 21:21

just wondering what aspect of pride that makes him go so fast?

is it just a general ability from the stone? or an augmented ability that goes with his eye

i thought his body wasn't supposed to be so good because of his age

but to me it seems to be the best combat homunculus just because of speed

Charred Knight · 2009-09-01, 01:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by velvet nightmare

just wondering what aspect of pride that makes him go so fast?

is it just a general ability from the stone? or an augmented ability that goes with his eye

i thought his body wasn't supposed to be so good because of his age

but to me it seems to be the best combat homunculus just because of speed

Your confusing Pride with Wrath. Pride has only been seen in one scene, and Pride is pretty damn slow.

Wrath is fast due to having gone through massive training all his life.

GaimeGuy · 2009-09-01, 02:28

and his body IS slowed down and weaker from age. Which makes it scary to think about what he was like in his prime O_O

Krazzy Angel · 2009-09-08, 23:51

I was just comparing the story of the first anime and the manga and found out that I could not remember much of the first series.
So I wanted to recall how was Hughes killed and how did the brothers react to the news of this death?

Vicious108 · 2009-09-09, 12:54

Hughes killed was killed almost exactly the same way. Only difference was that it was for learning different things. Mainly Juliet Douglas' identity.

Only like 20 episodes later did Ed and Al learn, they were in Reseembol then, in hiding, and they wanted to go out and beat up the homunculi but they were stopped by Roy and Armstrong IIRC.

Krazzy Angel · 2009-09-10, 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endless Twilight

Hughes killed was killed almost exactly the same way. Only difference was that it was for learning different things. Mainly Juliet Douglas' identity.

Only like 20 episodes later did Ed and Al learn, they were in Reseembol then, in hiding, and they wanted to go out and beat up the homunculi but they were stopped by Roy and Armstrong IIRC.

O.k now I can remember the scenes vaguely.

Kanish · 2009-09-12, 11:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

Wrath is fast due to having gone through massive training all his life.

Really? I always imagined his eye allowed him to gather information at a much faster rate than a normal human could. That coupled with super human reflexes and speed make him the ultimate homunculus.

Sannom · 2009-09-12, 11:27

Wrath's speed is a combination of his eye's power, Homonculus body and massive training. But what sets him apart is really the training.

takachsh · 2009-09-15, 01:15

A small question regarding a manga ----> anime scene from Brotherhood. Also since I have not read the manga.

Spoiler for FMA ep23:

Thx if anyone can answer this for me lol.

Shiroth · 2009-09-15, 04:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by takachsh

A small question regarding a manga ----> anime scene from Brotherhood. Also since I have not read the manga.

Spoiler for FMA ep23:

Spoiler for Episode 23:

Ziziphus · 2009-09-15, 05:53

^Just as Shiroth said. And also, what made you feel so random actually was a proof of how badass Ling was. He's not only a skilled fighter but also a quick thinker, despite lack of alchemy skill!

2009-08-19, 22:10	Link #183
wsheit Combating Spoiler Scum Join Date: Nov 2003 Age: 40	So this has probably been broached before, but I looked a bit and didn't see an easy way to get an answer without the threat of seeing some spoilers. I watched the original series up to around ep 27, and I remember Spoiler: a certain character dying around ep 25. I got caught up in other things and never got to finish the series. Now, I'm watching Brotherhood and Spoiler: noticing that said character has died in episode 10. They've covered 25 eps in 10? So I went looking for plot summaries of the old series to refresh my memory. Some of the stuff in the old series seems like filler, but some of it (that isn't in the new series) seems substantive. Is Brotherhood leaving manga material out? Or did Bones come up with all of the extra stuff in the old series? __________________

2009-08-25, 14:05	Link #188
Haladflire65 Senior Member Artist Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Normandy SR-2 Age: 29	Yeah, the cliffies are brutal. What is it with Arakawa and cliffhangers, anyway? __________________

2009-09-08, 23:51	Link #193
Krazzy Angel despair v/s hope Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: In the realm of thoughts...	I was just comparing the story of the first anime and the manga and found out that I could not remember much of the first series. So I wanted to recall how was Hughes killed and how did the brothers react to the news of this death? __________________ Far away from the hectic world I close my eyes to remember the past days... I still hope to see you again...

2009-09-15, 01:15	Link #198
takachsh Unagi, Rice Bowl Love Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Canada	A small question regarding a manga ----> anime scene from Brotherhood. Also since I have not read the manga. Spoiler for FMA ep23: Ep23: Brotherhood. I found it a little odd that Ling just sprung out of no where, tossed a bomb inside gluttony, wrapped him up like a x-mas gift and threw him inside hawk's car like he was made of paper and made a getaway. I was wondering if this is exactly how it happened in the manga cuz as cool as it was lol, it kinda left me with a blank stare on my face wondering how just random that seemed lol. Thx if anyone can answer this for me lol.

2009-09-15, 05:53	Link #200
Ziziphus Whatever Join Date: May 2009 Location: SEA Age: 36	^Just as Shiroth said. And also, what made you feel so random actually was a proof of how badass Ling was. He's not only a skilled fighter but also a quick thinker, despite lack of alchemy skill! __________________

2009-08-18, 11:04	Link #182
7thFonon seventh Join Date: Dec 2006	That makes sense. And now I get what Ed was saying about the memory of him, Al, and Winry on Episode 20 as well. Thanks for clearing that up for me =)

2009-08-25, 13:55	Link #187
Vicious108 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007	They were pretty late this month actually... but yes it's usually on the 10th. The waits keep getting harder too.

2009-08-25, 15:19	Link #189
Vicious108 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007	And Brotherhood hasn't been doing them justice unfortunately. Well save for episode 19 that is. That one was great.

2009-08-31, 21:21	Link #190
velvet nightmare Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007	just wondering what aspect of pride that makes him go so fast? is it just a general ability from the stone? or an augmented ability that goes with his eye i thought his body wasn't supposed to be so good because of his age but to me it seems to be the best combat homunculus just because of speed

2009-09-01, 02:28	Link #192
GaimeGuy Senior Member Join Date: May 2009	and his body IS slowed down and weaker from age. Which makes it scary to think about what he was like in his prime O_O

2009-09-09, 12:54	Link #194
Vicious108 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007	Hughes killed was killed almost exactly the same way. Only difference was that it was for learning different things. Mainly Juliet Douglas' identity. Only like 20 episodes later did Ed and Al learn, they were in Reseembol then, in hiding, and they wanted to go out and beat up the homunculi but they were stopped by Roy and Armstrong IIRC.

2009-09-12, 11:27	Link #197
Sannom Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007	Wrath's speed is a combination of his eye's power, Homonculus body and massive training. But what sets him apart is really the training.