Best Character

[lucy06]

[dragoonfj123]

my favorites are hero, kira, and lacus clyne =p

[Eidolon Sniper]

Oh yeah! Heine should be sort of put in here too. I mean, he was only 3 eps worth, but he actually touched Athrun's life in a VERY big way. If Heine was alive, none of that Athrun "couldn't make up my mind unless Lacus was involved in it" kind of deal we saw at the end of Destiny would ever happen, and we're well on our way to Athrun's Counter Attack.

I still can't understand why the heck people hate Fllay for the reason that she slept with Kira...people who hate this character, I would like to be enlightened as to WHY you hate her, and not just for sleeping with the main character...

[Ruusu]

THANK YOU!
Heine was one of the best people in seed i mean he owned the gaia, not like "ha ha ha i shot at you", like made Steller get mad, and scared, owned
and he would have beaten her to if Kira didn't fuck him over

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

I still can't understand why the heck people hate Fllay for the reason that she slept with Kira...people who hate this character, I would like to be enlightened as to WHY you hate her, and not just for sleeping with the main character...

The most common reasons I've come across are that she's not too bright or well-informed, that she exhibits racist attitudes, and that she tried to manipulate Kira.

[Tak]

Ha, I thought that was pretty obvious. Look, Flay was with much grief, her character was supposed to export hate. On the other hand, it meant Flay, as a character, was a successful one.

Does it not make one go, "Oh, that wretched bitch!".

- Tak

[Skyfall]

Originally Posted by Tak

Does it not make one go, "Oh, that wretched bitch!".

- Tak

*checks emotions* Nop, still don't hate her.

[Naive]

I went into Gundam Seed expecting to hate Flay, in fact I was pretty much biased against her character for the first 10 episodes or so, but I couldn't after seeing the way she reacted to her circumstances: in a realistic manner. I really sympathized with her a lot more than I hated her.

If she had stayed static, I could understand why people would hate her, but she didn't! She had the most character development and actually learned from her mistakes. I don't think her character was supposed to invoke hate because she redeemed herself at the end of SEED, and I feel most people ignore this.

I loved Kira and Cagalli from the beginning, and I still love them, but Flay just kept growing on me throughout the series until I realized that she was one of my favorites. So I've always viewed Flay's character as an acquired taste.

I really don't understand why her character is so maligned because she's not the same girl at the end of SEED as she was in the beginning, so therefore she doesn't have the same flaws...

[Eidolon Sniper]

Whoa, not too well informed? >.<;; Racist? The only thing I actually saw to a degree was the way she manipulated Kira...

Besides, the way her character was made up in the first eps of SEED would actually fit the way people view her as somebody who isn't "bright" and "well informed", because of the spoiled sheltered rich little daddy's girl thing; her world ONLY revolved around her father and herself, and her many spoiled girl hobbies. It could also be inferred that her father shielded Fllay from the political/ugly side of things, maybe because Fllay is very precious to him now that his wife and Fllay's mother has already gone. And racist? Whoa, if she was, she would've actually put her foot down when Lacus got aboard the Archangel, and maybe said many racist things to her, such and such. She only said she didn't want to shake hands with a Coordinator, how could that be racist...? We could all very well say the same thing about our own worst enemy, and we wouldn't be accused of being racist. Her Blue Cosmos plug in could only be attributed to the way her father probably brought her up, being part of the Atlantic Federation and everything, and she wasn't even shown to be vocal about the said "racist" deal until she was shown to meet up with Lacus. Also, if she was racist, she wouldn't like spend some of her time making origami flowers for dead Coordinators of the Junius Seven incident. And Kuzzey, for all his shifty beady eyed deals when he learned Kira was a Coordinator...he struck me as more "racist" than Fllay ever was...

[Last_Hope]

Fllay and Char are the best characters IMO. Both of them goes a bit outside the boundaries of how a Gundam character usually* acts.( Still my own subjective opinion.) And this makes them somewhat hard to read, it´s not crystal clear as to what they might do.

Another plus is that they show more emotions than the standard ones such as (sometimes forced) angst, anger and determination. And not necessarily in that order either.

*With usually being a comparison to their counterparts/similar characters in other shows.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

Racist? The only thing I actually saw to a degree was the way she manipulated Kira...

I am not sure if you are trying to suppress your memory selectively, but its quite obvious that Flay was racist.

You know, its not only once did she scream something to the effect of "ALL COORDIES SHOULD GOTO HELL!" While she may not have put her foot down when Lacus got aboard the Archangel, she did try to shoot Dekky stating that "Coordies should not exist!".

She was only stopped when Milly suddenly had a change of mind and pushed Flay on the ground.

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

Also, if she was racist, she wouldn't like spend some of her time making origami flowers for dead Coordinators of the Junius Seven incident.

You ever heard of peer pressure? Or have you selectively ignored several facts again? You know, there is a lot of things Flay done on that ship that she just never wanted to do?

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

She only said she didn't want to shake hands with a Coordinator, how could that be racist...? We could all very well say the same thing about our own worst enemy, and we wouldn't be accused of being racist.

Who is we?

Urm, if you said something to the effect of "I would never shake hands with Canadians" (in addition to of course, racial slurs), I am pretty sure you would have been accused of racism by then.

- Tak (Of course, the Canadian French always deserve every bit of crap we dish out, but thats another story)

[Obi-Wan]

Originally Posted by Tak

- Tak (Of course, the Canadian French always deserve every bit of crap we dish out, but thats another story)

Bingo.

Oh and IMO, Flay does have racist tendencies and is quite a bitch. Whoever said she was meant to be hated is right on the money. I know myself and quite a few others were cheering when Le Creuset shot that lifepod.

[shaolo]

If Flay was racist then why would she sleep,have relationship ,and have that newtype thing sceen with Kira? I am talk racism in a KKK level.

[AlphaDragoon]

Uh...yeah, Flay was totally racist. She downright HATED Coordinators, even before her dad bit the big one. On top of the fact that she treated people like trash, dropped her ex-boyfriend at near light-speed once he wasn't useful to her anymore, and manipulated/mind-raped Kira to a point that were it not for the healing effect being with Lacus had on him would have most likely NEVER recovered from.

Oh, and while it's nice that she learned from her mistakes, it was FAR too late for her to go crawling back to Kira after the stunts she pulled. The only reason I could see anyone thinking of her as "tragic heroine" was because she got blasted on. The way I saw her, she was exactly like that conniving bitch Nina Purpleton in 0083, i.e. uses and abuses people and switches sides when it's convenient for her. So yay for Rau blowing her into space dust, because even though got hosed in his fight with Kira (I like Kira and even I know that he got screwed) he did the CE world a service before he went, and will be jokingly remembered as a hero and a legend for doing so.

Anyway, my favorite characters? I like Kira, Lacus, Sven and (the non-Gil drone programmed to fight Kira) Shinn in CE (Meer was also an interesting character), I liked Domon and Rain in AU, and I liked Shirou, Aina, Loran and Amuro in UC. I did like Kou until the ending of 0083 (and him happily taking back a certain blight upon the world...) made me lose all respect for him.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by shaolo

If Flay was racist then why would she sleep,have relationship ,and have that newtype thing sceen with Kira? I am talk racism in a KKK level.

Well, if you know this guy likes you and has liked you forever...what's the absolute best way to get him to be your puppet and do absoutely anything you want including murder? You guessed it...lay him. And keep it coming whenever he does "good", like a puppy who gets a treat for sitting or rolling over...

Of course, Flay wasn't as hard as she thought and actually fell in love with Kira, but by then the damage was well past done, and he was already hanging out with Lacus. In other words, no chance in hell for Flay to start a REAL relationship with him that wasn't based on using him or deceit.

[Skyfall]

The way some people want to make Fllay look like some sort of demon makes me want to laugh.

Urm, if you said something to the effect of "I would never shake hands with Canadians" (in addition to of course, racial slurs), I am pretty sure you would have been accused of racism by then

Does this world consist only of Canadians and Germans?(for example). In that case i would find it completely normal for a german to yell "all canadians should go to hell" after his/her only relative was killed by Canadians.

It is war. Coordinators vs Naturals. A vs B. Under those circumstances(especialy if your father ranks quite highly in the political system) it is perfectly normal for her not to have the best opinion on coordinators.

Boo hoo, evil Fllay said bad things about Coordinators so she should go to hell and be labeled as evil bitch. Athrun has probably blown up hundreds(if not thousands) of Naturals by destroying spaceships. Yet we never accuse him of being evil. Why is that ? Oh, righ - he does so with a straight face in a cool manner, and most importantly - without saying bad words about the ones he kills.

Fllay realised her mistakes(badmouthing coordinators being the biggest one aparantly), but it came too late, and thus she is labeled as hatable bitch?

Kira killed how many people? Athrun? Oh, but when they realised their mistakes it was aparantly not too late(ROFL), and are labeled as the goody two shoes and protectors of Freedom and Justice. How lovely. The KO count for these two probanbly exceeds the rest of CE combined, but hey - it is ok, they are heroes after all, while Fllay is a damned bitch who dared to say bad things about the people who killed her father. Laughable.

Why is it ok to ignore the character development Fllay had and label her as bitch(when the worst thing she did was say some bad words), and in the same time consider Kira/Athrun/Lacus protectors of peace and whatever, when they are ok with blowing stuff up left and right according to their believes? Unless ofc you consider killing less of a bad thig than hating a group of certain people after the said group has destroyed your home and killed your father.

no chance in hell for Flay to start a REAL relationship with him that wasn't based on using him or deceit

Their "relationship" did start on all the wrong reasons, but should have Fllay survived things should have been pretty interesting, as that clearly was not the case at the end of SEED. Kira sure missed her enough to have flashbacks about her two years after her death.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

Whoa, not too well informed? >.<;; Racist? The only thing I actually saw to a degree was the way she manipulated Kira...

I'm afraid that Tak's right. Fllay did display racist tendencies early on, and these tended to stem from ignorance as much as from malice. Arguably, I'd say that she was quite unsuccessful at manipulating Kira.

Originally Posted by Tak

She was only stopped when Milly suddenly had a change of mind and pushed Flay on the ground.

Fllay's attempt to kill Dearka can be thought of as racism, but I don't think that that really had any role in her motivation. Mostly, she was just trying to strike out at someone she thought contributed to Kira's death. This is more likely just a simple case of misdirected revenge.

Originally Posted by Tak

Urm, if you said something to the effect of "I would never shake hands with Canadians" (in addition to of course, racial slurs), I am pretty sure you would have been accused of racism by then.

That's not necessarily true. Given that Fllay's nation was at war with the overwhelming majority of Coordinators, it's relatively normal to not want to associate with the "enemies". I don't deny that she had racist feelings, nor that her reactions are justified, but nor do I think that this indicates very much in and of itself.

Originally Posted by shaolo

If Flay was racist then why would she sleep,have relationship ,and have that newtype thing sceen with Kira? I am talk racism in a KKK level.

It's quite possible for people to simultaneously hold two contradictory views. I wouldn't say that Fllay's attitudes are akin to that of an extremist's, but her other actions don't make it impossible to be racist.

Originally Posted by AlphaDragoon

Uh...yeah, Flay was totally racist. She downright HATED Coordinators, even before her dad bit the big one. On top of the fact that she treated people like trash, dropped her ex-boyfriend at near light-speed once he wasn't useful to her anymore, and manipulated/mind-raped Kira to a point that were it not for the healing effect being with Lacus had on him would have most likely NEVER recovered from.

In the beginning, Fllay's attitude towards Coordinators is racist, but it's hardly an active form of such an attitude. She simply heard that they were "bad" people, and what little news she paid attention to seemed to confirm her feelings. Until her father died, Fllay never gave the matter much thought; and afterwards, it was more an issue of vengeance than anything else.

The only person that Fllay can be argued to treat like "trash" was Sai, and that was hardly done out of malice. Instead, it was just part of her rather ineffectual attempts to manipulate Kira. Attempts that Kira managed to recover from on his own, I might add. In fact, the person most badly affected by her manipulations was Fllay herself.

Originally Posted by AlphaDragoon

Oh, and while it's nice that she learned from her mistakes, it was FAR too late for her to go crawling back to Kira after the stunts she pulled. The only reason I could see anyone thinking of her as "tragic heroine" was because she got blasted on.

Fllay isn't a "tragic heroine" because she died, if she were to be considered one at all. Instead, it would be because she realized her mistakes too late, and because of her self-destructiveness of her actions.

Originally Posted by AlphaDragoon

Well, if you know this guy likes you and has liked you forever...what's the absolute best way to get him to be your puppet and do absoutely anything you want including murder? You guessed it...lay him. And keep it coming whenever he does "good", like a puppy who gets a treat for sitting or rolling over...

That's an interesting theory, but Kira was hardly her puppet.

Originally Posted by AlphaDragoon

Of course, Flay wasn't as hard as she thought and actually fell in love with Kira, but by then the damage was well past done, and he was already hanging out with Lacus. In other words, no chance in hell for Flay to start a REAL relationship with him that wasn't based on using him or deceit.

If Fllay were sincere about the relationship, what would be the problem with rebuilding hers with Kira? It's not as if he thought that she'd been using him.

Originally Posted by Skyfall

Their "relationship" did start on all the wrong reasons, but should have Fllay survived things should have been pretty interesting, as that clearly was not the case at the end of SEED. Kira sure missed her enough to have flashbacks about her two years after her death.

You make some good points. This last statement is exactly what I've been thinking. Having Fllay survive would have been the biggest change in the Seed shows. The main problem would have been that it would have drastically changed the dynamic of any future works where Kira plays a prominent role.

[Ruusu]

-shakes fist at TAK
Canada owns and you know it :P

[Ruusu]

Originally Posted by Skyfall

Boo hoo, evil Fllay said bad things about Coordinators so she should go to hell and be labeled as evil bitch. Athrun has probably blown up hundreds(if not thousands) of Naturals by destroying spaceships. Yet we never accuse him of being evil. Why is that ? Oh, righ - he does so with a straight face in a cool manner, and most importantly - without saying bad words about the ones he kills.

HE doesn't say any thing bad because he doesn't care, your right it's a war, Its a blood thirsty war that has only the people watching from the sidelines who are the ones labeled evil.
But He does feel remorse for each person he fights he doesn't want to fight really, he is just only doing what he is best at.


He most lily joined the ZAFT army because of his father and thats the life he knew from the start.

[blitz1/2]

My best characters are those that get killed. They give me a good laugh when they die.

[Eidolon Sniper]

Oh boy.

Spoiler for putting things in spoiler tags are LOTS of FUN!:

Originally Posted by Tak

I am not sure if you are trying to suppress your memory selectively, but its quite obvious that Flay was racist.

You know, its not only once did she scream something to the effect of "ALL COORDIES SHOULD GOTO HELL!" While she may not have put her foot down when Lacus got aboard the Archangel, she did try to shoot Dekky stating that "Coordies should not exist!".

And if I remember correctly, she tried to shoot Dearka for "killing" Kira. By that time her "Coordinators must all die" mode was already waning fast...

She was only stopped when Milly suddenly had a change of mind and pushed Flay on the ground.

I didn't quite understand how and why Milly suddenly decided to stop killing Dearka after that freaky knife episode...

You ever heard of peer pressure? Or have you selectively ignored several facts again? You know, there is a lot of things Flay done on that ship that she just never wanted to do?

Peer pressure? And here I was thinking that Fllay wouldn't even think of doing anything like that regarding her upbringing as the daughter of an EA official, particularly, the Atlantic Federation...

She knew the people who got killed were Coordinators, and if it was peer pressure or anything, she would've made faces or something and would be shown NOT actually enjoying making those origami flowers (since she was only FORCED to make them because of peer pressure, everybody was doing their nice things for the dead Coordinators). And the part where she was doing all those things... really, it was part of her plan in order to wrap Kira around her little finger, so why do you say that she never wanted to do it? It's for REVENGE (hence, her manipulative abilities shone through this episode). The only thing she didn't like was when the Archangel was right in the middle of battle...

Who is we?

Urm, if you said something to the effect of "I would never shake hands with Canadians" (in addition to of course, racial slurs), I am pretty sure you would have been accused of racism by then.

That would be racism. But the only time she was allowed to show her "racism" was when she refused to shake Lacus' hand...coupled with those Coordinators should all die right after that. She wasn't extreme in spouting Coordinator racial slurs before that incident, and even right after she manipulated Kira, so how could she be accused of being racist? And then, there is this "racist" thing that she was suddenly accused of...she got only surprised that Kira was a Coordinator beforehand (before meeting Lacus) then became the Blue Cosmos poster girl after she met Lacus, which would leave you with wondering how and why her racism was suddenly thought up in order to make people hate her and love Lacus for Kira all the more...

Originally Posted by Obi Wan

Oh and IMO, Flay does have racist tendencies and is quite a bitch. Whoever said she was meant to be hated is right on the money. I know myself and quite a few others were cheering when Le Creuset shot that lifepod.

Refer to my post above.

And contrary to the "Fllay must die" people out there, there were a lot of people who also cried foul over that scene as well...

She never hated anything about the Coordinators until Lacus came aboard the Archangel.

Originally Posted by AlphaDragoon

Uh...yeah, Flay was totally racist. She downright HATED Coordinators, even before her dad bit the big one.

No, she wasn't!

On top of the fact that she treated people like trash, dropped her ex-boyfriend at near light-speed once he wasn't useful to her anymore, and manipulated/mind-raped Kira to a point that were it not for the healing effect being with Lacus had on him would have most likely NEVER recovered from.

Fllay treated people like trash? HORRORS! The only person she treated like trash was Kira (very obviously) and to some extent, Ssigh. She never said anything or done anything hateful to Tolle, Kuzzey, and Miriallia, if I remember correctly... They were all disapproving of what Fllay did to Ssigh, but she didn't care and never said anything to them defending her actions or whatever, or have they even argued about it. She was just bent on using Kira for her twisted revenge.

Lacus healing effect? Do not make me laugh. She just used Kira's fragile mindset after being used by Fllay in order to make him her Knight...in effect, what she did is just as bad, or even worse, than what Fllay ever did to him, sans the one night stand. Lacus manipulated Athrun for her own ends when she knew that he was still searching for his path and has no idea which way to go...it was just swell that they also believed in the same things that she did, and so it didn't seem like they were manipulated...and because it was Lacus who intended them to be her pawns without looking very suspicious while at it, too. Who in their right minds would want to follow Lacus into going against Zala, if Kira and Athrun had their minds totally safe from her Force prying? Kira had been fighting for what he believed in all along, as much as Athrun was fighting for what he believed in all along. Kira in his right mind would not allow Lacus to show him the way (after healing him successfully of the Fllay mindrape for only a few days while at it too... ) and instead try to do something on his own, ditto with Athrun. It might take 200 episodes or something, but who cares, at least that part about Lacus' miraculous healing would not seem so farfetched or as Nightengale aptly stated in his own post posts ago (why people seem to dislike Lacus for being who she is).

Face it, what Fllay did to him was very damaging, and it would take more than a few days worth of Pink Princess dust in order to heal him, as you stated...Kira would be most probably be scarred for life because of it. Lacus is as guilty as Fllay is for using Kira when he was at his most vulnerable (because Kira was still recuperating from the psychological damage Fllay did to him; oh, and because of the fact that he survived a near death experience fighting with his best friend as well). And just because "Fllay is meant to be hated" just makes Fllay a total bitch than what Lacus did (similar to the mindrape thing)...what a very enlightening reason...

Of course, Flay wasn't as hard as she thought and actually fell in love with Kira, but by then the damage was well past done, and he was already hanging out with Lacus. In other words, no chance in hell for Flay to start a REAL relationship with him that wasn't based on using him or deceit.

No way in hell? Then that look in their eyes when they saw each other for the very last time before Raw blew up Fllay's lifepod must be a figment of my own imagination or something...

Fllay was meaning to say so many things to Kira, and that she was sorry, and such and such. Even in the last episodes, Kira was still very much Fllay smitten (seeing Fllay in Lacus, and crying in Lacus' lap that he didn't want to hurt her, almost getting killed trying to get to Fllay's lifepod and getting crazy hearing her voice again, and even Cagalli knew that Kira was still very much for Fllay when she told Lacus about it). Fllay was willing to start everything again and she wanted to undo all the hrt she did to Kira, knowing full well that she had hurt him and that he didn't deserve her cruelty back then. Now, if this isn't a relationship that isn't based on deceit or on using him, then I do not know what is...

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I'm afraid that Tak's right. Fllay did display racist tendencies early on, and these tended to stem from ignorance as much as from malice. Arguably, I'd say that she was quite unsuccessful at manipulating Kira.

Her racism was only shown when Lacus boarded the ship...>.>;;

Unsuccessful? oh boy, that made me REALLY laugh. If it was, they wouldn't have survived that desert landing, and you very well KNOW it...

It's quite possible for people to simultaneously hold two contradictory views. I wouldn't say that Fllay's attitudes are akin to that of an extremist's, but her other actions don't make it impossible to be racist.

Other actions including...?

By the time they landed in Orb, her Coordinators must all die attitude was already waning fast. Then went on to zilch when Rau captured her.

Seriously though, the only thing I see contradictory with that is when she made origami flowers and then went on to become the Blue Cosmos poster girl in a span of JUST a few seconds...

Originally Posted by Ruusu

He most lily joined the ZAFT army because of his father and thats the life he knew from the start.

Athrun was a civilian before joining up with ZAFT. He witnessed the death of his mother in the Bloody Valentine tragedy and knew at once that his mother must be avenged somehow, so he joined ZAFT. Athrun was a very peaceful person before, even Lacus noted it (GASP!). Peaceful in the sense that he'd rather not join the war, what does he care about it anyway, I have nothing to do with it, and so on and so forth. Until his mother died.

So, you couldn't really say that it was the life he knew right from the start...

Oh, I just started watching Wing again. damn pesky super robots. Now that I have Lacus to compare her with, Relena is starting to grow on me a bit...I also forgot t mention that I also like Sally Po from Wing, she may not have done much, but I think she got Wufei's respect for being a woman, and so she deserves my vote. LOL.