[Manga] Naruto Chapter 601 Discussion Thread

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Hiking_Bear

Nowhere in this chapter did it show that. Long-haired Tobi was around during the Uchiha Massacre, which occurred well after the flashback events shown on the last page. Besides, Madara is shown on the last page to have gone grey/white in his old age. Are you saying he dyed his hair later on?

yea i guess it makes no sense either way now that i think about it more... either he dyed it which is dumb, used an oro-technique to look younger, or obito grew his hair and then cut it for no reason... oh well

So, to me, the last panel which shows old Madara with his eyes intact tending to a sewn-together Obito, cannot be taken at face value. The last page only seems to make sense if it takes place in a limbo world between life and death.

it is some kind of weird world, but obviously obito was able to return to the living world so we need a reason why madara wouldn't be able to. maybe he was too old to sustain life anywhere else so that is where he trained obito? i guess we just have to wait.

Originally Posted by Hunter

No that was Kabuto's doing, he explained that he managed to revive him into his prime.

oh i didnt remember that. i guess that makes sense. more sense then planning for nagato to revive a long dead madara when a much more recently dead jiraiya was said by nagato to have been dead for too long... i guess that can be explained by nagato not having enough power left at the time, but whatever. there are going to be some issues no matter what it seems.

[janipani]

Originally Posted by Shay

Amazing chapter imo.

Confirmed a lot for me. Obv Madara saved Obito, and trained him in the arts of the Sharingan/Rinnagan etc. Then after passing Obito continued Madara's work collecting the tailed beasts and recruiting members for Ataksuki ready for Madara to be revived in the future when his plan was rtg.

However, Madara has been awaken too early. By now Madara expected Nagato to still be alive, and all the tailed beasts to be captured.

Although Madara does seem to have some faith in Obito I agree, that he is also just a pawn in Madara's overall plan.

The Kage got owned there is no way Tsunade can survive this.

I suspect Oro knows all of Madara's plan and is about to explain all to Sasuke. Who will eventually team up with Naruto to defeat Madara. However, this would mean no Sas x Naru fight...

Tsunade doesn't have to survive, because we know hokage will be changed very soon

[prakash123]

ive stated before that tobi is only one person.cause i checked out the timelines and it fits perfectly.obito fought minato with short hair then he grew out his hair for the meeting with itachi and the mind controll of yagura just to make a convincing madara.then cut again later on.

also what was the panek abt obitos arm twitching about?
did i catch it right that madara said naruto was a clone?

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by prakash123

ive stated before that tobi is only one person.cause i checked out the timelines and it fits perfectly.obito fought minato with short hair then he grew out his hair for the meeting with itachi and the mind controll of yagura just to make a convincing madara.then cut again later on.

and the question still remains... why would he need a convincing madara look back then and not since the beginning of shippuden? he was still pretending to be madara. also when he fought minato his hair wasn't any longer than tobi's is now. shouldn't it have been at a mid-way point between long and short if he was growing it out?

i understand that both tobis could be obito, i'm just saying it doesn't add up logically

[Dengar]

Maybe his hair just grew and he didn't cut it again until much later?

Do hairstyles really have to have plot significance all the time?

[prakash123]

also what was the panel abt obitos arm twitching about?
did i catch it right that madara said naruto was a clone?

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Maybe his hair just grew and he didn't cut it again until much later?

Do hairstyles really have to have plot significance all the time?

Hairstyles can have amazing character importance (beyond just unique defining characteristics (which Kishimoto fails at many times since too many hairstyles are too similar)). As I said in a previous chapter thread, Hinata growing her hair out or Sakura keeping her hair short all are reflections of their growth as characters. Consequently, Tobi having short hair, then long hair, and then finally short again can and should be important.

Whenever a character changes anything about themselves, it is generally a big deal.

Originally Posted by prakash123

also what was the panel abt obitos arm twitching about?

Obito's goo arm seemed to have healed itself. Why it can do this now but not earlier is unknown.

Originally Posted by prakash123

did i catch it right that madara said naruto was a clone?

Yes, the Naruto directly fighting Madara and Tobi was a clone (no one knew this besides Madara). The real Naruto was freeing Kirabi.

[ranchan13]

My biggest question is, if Madara is fighting a Naruto clone, where is the real Naruto? And, if Naruto, with the Super BFF mode Kyuubi (Kurama) can fight with this much power through a clone, what happens when the real Naruto shows up with no clones???

To be honest, I think the real Naruto is hanging back somewhere creating a clone every now and then to suck up some sage chakra, then poofing them for a clone recharge, rinsing and repeating. If he's using that tactic (which would be epicly brilliant, especially for Naruto) then he's got an unlimited chakra reserve unlike he's ever had before. That makes him a match for Madara, at least in one respect.

[Ero-Senn1n]

So none of the major plot holes were closed in this chapter but it was still an epic chapter

Madara being alive and not looking after Nagato is still the major plot hole for me. Now it is confirmed that he was alive. The huge risk was not only that the child Nagato would be killed by the war or nature itself but also that someone like Jiraiya would teach Nagato to be the good guy instead of following Madara. Or was Zetsu following every event in Nagato's life? Was Nagato's life planned by Madara? The two Konoha soldiers who killed his (fake?) parents were under Madara's genjutsu? If so then Madara probably died around the time when Nagato meets with Jiraiya, because i'm sure Madara would not have allowed for Jiraiya's teachings to take root in Nagato's head. Because those teachings in the end were the cause of Nagato's betrayal. Nagato was about 10 years old when meeting with Jiraya so it would make sense in the timeline. All what happened until then was supervised and controlled by Madara in order to make Nagato hate Konoha and the ninja world, to plant the seeds of hatred towards this world at a very young age. I guess Madara also planned to "save" Nagato at some point in time and then teach him for some time and give him the order to resurrect him personally, but he didn't have the time. But that would also mean that he couldn't have trained Obito in the usual way, so he had to change Obtio in a very limited time (days, weeks?), which means he had to use some mental brainwashing jutsu using sharingan eyes. Maybe izanami to make him live his last day 100000 times, Obito making the same decisions every time, but then slowly Madara corrupting him in that infinite loop of izanami to save himself instead of Kakashi. Madara could have combined izanami with other genjutsu too. Since Madara already had some other Uchiha's eyes at that time he could use izanami without regret.

As for Naruto being another clone i really hope that we finally see the next big powerup that i was waiting for: Naruto combining sage mode and kyuubi mode. That would make him even more like the Sage of 6 paths, except the rinnegan. Now it is inevitable that either the fight is interrupted by something (Sasuke jumping in, but that's too early now, or Obito and Madara turning against each other, but it's now confirmed that their plan was the same so it's very unlikely) or that Naruto get's a serious powerup. We can't see the real Naruto, so maybe the real one is hiding nearby and collecting a huge amount of natural chakra in sage mode. Before when he was not 100% friends with the kyuubi the sage mode would be impssible because he would have to balance hi own limited chakra with both narutal chakra and kyuubi chakra, but now the equation would be: natural chakra ~ naruto's chakra + kyuubi's chakra, which means that if natural and kyuubi's chakra are balanced then Naruto has power over a HUGE amount of chakra, rivaling that of the 10-tails. (and Naruto also got some amount of chakra from each of the tailed beasts that Tobi used against him earlier). Kishimoto might give us an insanely great finale for this war, which will make us forget about all the plot holes of Tobi=Obito

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by james0246

Whenever a character changes anything about themselves, it is generally a big deal.

It could just be a narrative trick to make the audience think it was Madara? Whereas in universe he just had his hair grow out on a whim? I don't know I'm just guessing here.

[ChronoReverse]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Before when he was not 100% friends with the kyuubi the sage mode would be impssible because he would have to balance hi own limited chakra with both narutal chakra and kyuubi chakra, but now the equation would be: natural chakra ~ naruto's chakra + kyuubi's chakra, which means that if natural and kyuubi's chakra are balanced then Naruto has power over a HUGE amount of chakra, rivaling that of the 10-tails.

I don't know about rivaling the 10-tails, but sage chakra might make up for the other half of the 9-tails chakra that was sealed in the death god.

[iBeast]

Where are you guys seeing Tsunade got split in half?

It looks like a tree branch is covering her lower body is all.

Edit: Just noticed the panel. Damn, Tsunade got obliterated.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Maybe his hair just grew and he didn't cut it again until much later?

Do hairstyles really have to have plot significance all the time?

i think they most certainly do. of course its possible for it just to be brushed under the carpet and forgotten by kishi but i hope not. as james said, whenever a character changes their appearance it should be significant in some way to the story. for instance, if sasuke started growing his hair long like madara's, the significance would be that he was taking his torch as the strongest uchiha and rebuilding the clan as he saw fit in an egomaniacal kind of way. obito growing his hair long makes sense to mimic madara as a facade, but what doesn't make sense is why he would cut it short again.

anime characters just dont randomly change hairstyles unless that is part of their MO like a highschool girl into fashion or something. we never saw jiraiya randomly cut his hair for instance. over the course of his life we only saw his hair keep getting longer. a similar trend should have followed with obito, but for some reason he went back to the short style. i'm sure i'm harping on it a bit too much, but i'd still like an explanation like an identity crisis or something like that at least

Originally Posted by iBeast

Where are you guys seeing Tsunade got split in half?

It looks like a tree branch is covering her lower body is all.

below the gigantic branch you can see her legs

Originally Posted by james0246

No, you are correct, everything could have been a red herring. (It's a shitty red herring, but still a conceivable one.)

yea its a shitty one since we were supposed to be under the impression that tobi was madara at that time anyway. we were supposed to buy it before we ever saw him have long hair. a couple flashbacks of tobi with long hair wasn't anymore convincing to the readers or to characters in the know like kisame and itachi so there really wouldn't have been a point if it is indeed a red herring

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Dengar

It could just be a narrative trick to make the audience think it was Madara? Whereas in universe he just had his hair grow out on a whim? I don't know I'm just guessing here.

No, you are correct, everything could have been a red herring. (It's a shitty red herring, but still a conceivable one.)

Originally Posted by iBeast

Where are you guys seeing Tsunade got split in half?

It looks like a tree branch is covering her lower body is all.

Look at the pic again, her legs and her torso are clearly on opposite sides of the tree; and considering the size of the tree, I don't think she just being covered up...

[iBeast]

What kinda weapon is Madara using? Is that a fan or umbrella?

There is a lot to dissect in this chapter.

[Artimus_Prime]

That panel with the eye opening in the darkness looks like the same one we see in kisames flashback...I realized it was a left eye at that time too...kisame met real madara. I'm still wondering about itachi

Yeah when the mokoton was activated that branch was likely growing across her belly and as it grew, we see what happened. But she is a slug, she'll grow back

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by iBeast

What kinda weapon is Madara using? Is that a fan or umbrella?

There is a lot to dissect in this chapter.

The uchiha insignia is a fan, if that helps?

[iBeast]

Originally Posted by Artimus_Prime

That panel with the eye opening in the darkness looks like the same one we see in kisames flashback...I realized it was a left eye at that time too...kisame met real madara. I'm still wondering about itachi

Yeah when the mokoton was activated that branch was likely growing across her belly and as it grew, we see what happened. But she is a slug, she'll grow back

How can it be real Madara if Kabuto had not revived him yet?

[Ulquiorra]

It is hard to tell from the art, but can anyone see where the real Naruto is? He is suppose to be behind KakaGai while the clone that just got blown-up was upfront.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by iBeast

What kinda weapon is Madara using? Is that a fan or umbrella?

It's a giant gunbai, a type of Japanese war fan (Temari is another character that uses a giant Japanese war fan)