[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by DaBackpack

But I do not think the events that we are shown on Rokkenjima are fake just because of this.

If you beleive they are fictional tales it's already evidenced that they probably never really happened as real life scenarios. This wouldn't change the fact that some authors wrote them and we're just seeing the events in scenarios that they wrote. The only difference with this would be that someone thought these stories were popular enough to make a stage career out of it.

[DaBackpack]

Originally Posted by Judoh

If you beleive they are fictional tales it's already evidenced that they probably never really happened as real life scenarios. This wouldn't change the fact that some author wrote them and we're just seeing the events that they wrote. The only difference now would be that someone thought these stories were popular enough to make a stage career out of it.

So you're saying that these plays (what we are shown in the visual novels on the gameboard) are based off the stories written by Featherine?

I was thinking the theory you were conveying was like
Rokkenjima > Play > Authors
instead of
Rokkenjima > Author > Play

I suppose the latter is acceptable.

[Renall]

If there are different authors, one could have written their "forgery" as a play. Perhaps that's what we'd be seeing in ep7, who knows. It's probably nothing.

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by DaBackpack

So you're saying that these plays (what we are shown in the visual novels on the gameboard) are based off the stories written by Featherine?

I was thinking the theory you were conveying was like
Rokkenjima > Play > Authors
instead of
Rokkenjima > Author > Play

I suppose the latter is acceptable.

If it's true that would likely be the sequence of events and then a live action TV show and a feature length movie after that.

Of course that's only if it's true.

I really feel bad for Nanjo Jr. With all these things going on these people really have the least "love" of anyone. He must think it's so disrespectful to the people who died and the family members that have to live with it.

[serverwolf]

um, even if it is a threat, what does it change? the red rules (truths) are still effective, and the way the game goes if effective too.
its really that same.

BTW about the magical furniture, they are the creation of the GM (look on EP6, when batteler talk with them), the GM is the one to create what they say (wich explain something about beatrice no?) so they are a complete magical being
you can also say they too are personifiaction of rules (like, if something is missing, its gaap)

[UsagiTenpura]

Hmmm couldn't the stage things be basically a representation of the idea that we'll be allowed to see "behind the curtains" ?

[BLambda]

Going back to 10 days ago, I'd like to reply to this and post my current theory (which core was stolen from some Anonymous and developed further after that).

Originally Posted by rogerpepitone

I mentioned this a few days ago, but nobody noticed:

There are a few points where Beatrice's heart is mentioned:
- Beatrice says she will reveal her heart to defeat Evatrice in Episode 3
- Beatrice mentions her heart when she's posing the final riddle in Episode 4
- Lambdadelta mentions Beatrice's heart wrt. escaping the logic error in Episode 6.

First of all, I do accept EP6 as an 'answer episode' (after reading Ryu07's interview) as well as Shkanon (though I dislike it from the bottom of my heart).

So, the basic idea: someone on the island is pregnant (earlier stage) and it's related to 'Beatrice's heart' mentioned above.

EP3: Unborn baby is already named after one of the victims and is dead (together with mother, otherwise (s)he had to have mother's name). With this, murder of Nanjo can be solved pretty easily.

EP6: 18 humans but 17 people. Fetus isn't counted as 'person' yet and is considered as part of mothers body, but is already a 'Human'. With this, Shkanon+Erika = 17 people, Shkanon+Erika+baby=18 humans, both red truths can co-exist with this.

As for EP4, I think it's just a challenge for Battler - can he spot it or not.
Sorry if something like this was posted already.

[Moogleking]

I applaud you for the outlandishness of that theory. Unfortunately, there is just no evidence at all for a theory like that.

I do think it is interesting, the part you brought up about Beatrice's heart. It is said that Beatrice's heart would be revealed with the solution to the logic error in game 6, and Evatrice tries and tries to break through Beatrice's heart to get at Kanon and Jessica, but can't.

It is interesting to me that both of these involve Kanon.

[AC-Phoenix]

Just to keep me updated:

I understand that the witches are adding new pieces, but is beatrice still Battlers opponent, or does Beato die?
Also who is the new Beatrice after Meta-Ange dies?

Might sound a little bit unrelated now but if they suddenly change characters (and probably even the perpetrator, then how about this theory:

The murder does not have to be the same person on all game boards, as long as it is possible to deduct who the perpetrator on the first game-board was. It therefore doesn't matter if there are suddenly more than 17 people on the island, since the games are build to solve the first cases mysteries.

[k//eternal]

How far back are you and how current do you want to be?

TBH, though, I'd really recommend playing through the games. If you're waiting for EP8 to buy, that's understandable, of course... it'd be hard to get involved with the discussion without firsthand knowledge of the events, though.

[UsagiTenpura]

The real problem I have with the pregnancy theory is that one could argue that during the night any of the couples have sexual relations that results in a pregnancy by the day after, which could be used to eternally confuse things.

[Judoh]

Please...

People when you're making a theory about things like this there is one thing you must ask yourself.

Would any competent author write this?

Ask yourself that question three times. If it doesn't make sense with how the story has been written so far the third time you ask that question you can be sure that it's not going to happen that way.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by k//eternal

How far back are you and how current do you want to be?

TBH, though, I'd really recommend playing through the games. If you're waiting for EP8 to buy, that's understandable, of course... it'd be hard to get involved with the discussion without firsthand knowledge of the events, though.

Adding the Anime to my playtime arounf EP 4.
I read the Spoilerforums though, because I want to solve that crime badly.
I also intedn reading the VN, as soon as my military service is over.

It probably won't change my blue text from above anyway, as all potential perpetrators die at some point in the episodes, so it can't be the same person over and over.

One can deduct much more from the Anime then some people here would believe, its just harder without the missing reds.

What i don't understand is who currently has the beatrice title after Meta-Ange dies.
And beato's 'body' was also done for already.
The reason I ask for beato's status:

As long as its her, deducting from information red in the spoiler forums is enough to build up halfway solid theories(even Lamda would still be fine), this wouldn't be the case if the opponent completely changed to a new character.
The 'Who has the Endless witch/Beatrice' title is just a matter of being interested


Edit:
An unrelated problem everyone should think about for a while:
Beatrice stated that Kinzo is already dead at the beginning of all the games.
Its really up to your interpretation when the game actually starts now.

e.G
The game starts at the same time Battler arrives on the island, therefore the person Krauss presented to the Family was just someone they would accept as being the head. (stated by Battler, supported by his body's decay status when his corpes was found.)
The game starts as soon as Kinzo throws the ring into the air, he is therefore still alive wehn Battler arrives.

[BLambda]

@UsagiTenpura both are easily countered:
1. 18th human on Rokkenjima != 'there are no more than 18 humans on Rokkenjima'
2. It's impossible to say with certainity that act was successful, and even if it was, baby is still unnamed and thus has no relation to the story.

@Judoh
Why wouldn't he? Elaborate, please. 'Because I don't like it' isn't an argument. 'It has no foreshadowing' is arguable though, the 'parental love' (or lack of it), uncertain birth circumstances (some go as far as to make links to 'Then there were none' pregnant maid who commits suicide) play pretty big role in the VN.

[UsagiTenpura]

Originally Posted by BLambda

@UsagiTenpura both are easily countered:
1. 18th human on Rokkenjima != 'there are no more than 18 humans on Rokkenjima'
2. It's impossible to say with certainity that act was successful, and even if it was, baby is still unnamed and thus has no relation to the story.

That's exactly it, six people die in the first night so there is minus six people which allow up to six new babies to exists from that point. That sort of logic doesn't lead to any answer but only to more confusion. Ryukishi is trying to show us a mystery story, not a cheap semantic trick. Also an unborn baby is simply not human, it's not even a lifeform on it's own yet. At that point might as well claim that objects have people's names and can evade red death that way.

[BLambda]

@UsagiTenpura
Edit: disregard it if you already read this, I see your point. I think it even allows any number of babies to exist from the very beginning (as they would count towards 'humans' but not 'people').

Anyway, just to clear all possible misunderstandings, I don't think it's the truth anyway, I think I'd even be unhappy if it was the truth, I'm just trying to show that it still can exist and explain riddles for EP3 and EP6 final red text 'semantic trick' (17 people but 18 humans).

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by BLambda

Anyway, just to clear all possible misunderstandings, I don't think it's the truth anyway, I think I'd even be unhappy if it was the truth,.

EXACTLY! If you can't see it as being the truth or you would be unhappy reading a story where that is the truth than don't make a theory about it and suggest it could be the truth because you can tell it's not.

[BLambda]

Originally Posted by Judoh

EXACTLY! If you can't see it as being the truth or you would be unhappy reading a story where that is the truth than don't make a theory about it and suggest it could be the truth because you can tell it's not.

I'm 20 times less happy with Shkanon existing. It wouldn't stop Ryu07 from going along with it nor it will automatically make him an incompetent author. Not that Shkanon is confirmed, or anything.

[AC-Phoenix]

There are only two ways Kannon could have survived EP 1 anyways:

- Nanjo lied, and Kannon was still alive

-)Kannon faked his death by himself.
(Already used in several crime novels, mainly by using a special kind of drug. this way even a doctor could think you are dead)

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by Judoh

Would any competent author write this?

Well, dude, Hinamizawa Syndrome wasn't the most intelligent thing I've ever read. If I can say that much.
It was fairly entertaining though.