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View Poll Results: Amagami SS - Episode 23 Discussion / Poll | |||
Perfect 10 | 24 | 36.92% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 20 | 30.77% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 16 | 24.62% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 3 | 4.62% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 0 | 0% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 1 | 1.54% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 1 | 1.54% | |
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll |
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2010-12-12, 15:03 | Link #81 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
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Wow, this thread is turning into "Why politicians must lie to the public to get their approval and votes". Ayatsuji is a very interesting character since she shows how life is like for a leader. Lying is required because people get angry if you don't.
I remember a case where Gordon Brown (Prime Minister of the UK) accidentally left his mic on after a speech. After which, he talked about his true feeling about the public to a close confident. It turned into a media frenzy. I think the response to that comment was pretty similar to what Ayatsuji faced here. Highly aggressive people don't really have the most "caring" personalities around. Well, for the most part, they do care but they don't have the time to put it into "nice" words that make people feel good except during specific public periods. They are in a hurry and need to get things done. In a way, people say they want actions before words but in actuality, in the public world, like Ayatsuji has shown...they prefer words over actions. All the actions (hard work) she did on the founding festival and making the class a success meant ziltch, nothing, nada, completely worthless to most the class. They only wanted her as a leader when she spoke nice things about them - even when they don't deserve it. In short, lie to them. Last edited by Fandal; 2010-12-12 at 15:21. |
2010-12-12, 20:16 | Link #82 | ||||||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
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Besides, someone brilliant can play dumb, but someone dumb cannot play brilliant. She is going to be highly successful in life in any case, since she is exceptionally capable. Once she has found her peace, she'll excel anyway. It's hard to avoid. Quote:
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The main reason why I tried to avoid the Freudian id/ego/super-ego model is that it does not translate very well on Tsukasa - it added extra complexity to something which could be explained better with a inner/outer-personality model. By definition, the Id is _not conscious_. It's the instinct, the nonrational aspect of us where pleasures and fears come from. So, in technical terms, you can NOT say that the Id is the "Inner" or "Bad" Ayatsuji. What you can say is that her Facade is her Ego which gives a very stringent representation of her Super-Ego. Did that definition help any? I don't think so. Quote:
You see, this isn't really helping us understand much. Neither her desires (Id) nor her conscience and values (Super-Ego) really changed, only how her Ego (the rational part) deals with things. And this Ego now believes that she must suppress the "obstinate girl" completely in order to keep her relationship with Junichi and to lead the festival to success. This misunderstanding must be cleared up. Fast. |
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2010-12-12, 22:41 | Link #83 |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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@Mentar:
I'm sort of a bit unsure why you had to disagree so strongly with me before if all we're really talking about are differences of definition and priority. At the end of the day, we have one episode left to bring the story to a full conclusion. Perhaps it's easiest to break it down this way; this is all obviously IMO (I have no familiarity with the source): BAD END: Tsukasa's honest personality is lost forever; she shows only her people-pleasing persona and Junichi can no longer love her. NORMAL END: Junichi brings out Tsukasa's honest personality again, and she comes back full force. The Festival is a failure (to some degree) and she takes the fall/blame, but she finds comfort in Junichi and is slowly able to rebuild her social standing without the facade. BEST END (?): Junichi convinces Tsukasa that he loves and accepts her honest personality, which allows her to drop the unhealthy facade and start "being herself" in a healthy way. They work together to rally the help they need to make the Festival a success, and find that they are stronger when they (and everyone) work together as a team. Because I think they are gunning for the "best end", they will have to short-circuit the "rebuilding" time and forcefully bring her personality to a more-or-less healthy state -- and quickly. To do that, they will probably have to put the Festival in jeopardy again, since a completely conciliatory "nice guy" approach isn't likely to work either. Leadership requires a delicate balance. Or perhaps there's some other way to do it... but if either the festival fails, or the "real" Tsukasa fails to reassert herself, in some way it's a less-than-ideal end to the story. Both story threads are being played out in tandem here. This is basically why my original argument centered on the fact that completely abandoning her goals and ambitions would not be for the best. I know your argument is that she'd be better off abandoning them since they're remnants of her facade, but I think the show will go for both the "obvious" victory as well as the "less-obvious-but-more-important" psychological one. We shall see.
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2010-12-13, 05:32 | Link #86 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
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And that is what I consider fundamentally wrong. She does not need to apologize to the bitches, she needs to stay her course of emancipating herself from the Facade, and Junichi needs to support that, until she has truly understood that her suppressed Inner personality is not insufficient, and in fact preferred by Junichi. I also maintain that this is the aspect of hers that he really fell in love with. They get along well during the Facade ep, but there wasn't much of an attraction. That developed when she started to drop the Facade towards Junichi. Quote:
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2010-12-13, 15:34 | Link #87 | ||
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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I don't know the original game at all, but I imagine that a much better ending would be to not trip this particular flag in the first place. (If he had simply said "I know you don't want this" rather than "I know you", it would have made a big difference and conveyed his point much more effectively. Again, he was trying to solve the problem of the festival, not the problem of her psyche.) Anyway, we'll just have to wait for the next episode at this point.
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2010-12-13 at 15:46. |
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2010-12-13, 19:53 | Link #88 | |||||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2010-12-13 at 20:51. Reason: Removed spoiler |
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2010-12-13, 21:20 | Link #89 | ||
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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Anyway, perhaps I missed the post where you admitted that you had spoiled yourself on the game's endings; with that knowledge in your head, it really throws this conversation into question for me. I'll just wait for the next episode and see what they do.
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2010-12-14, 16:44 | Link #90 |
simp for Lyria
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Nice episode, although Aya's flip mode against the 3 girls didn't have nearly as much impact as it did in the manga[Precious Diary]. The kiss was also less sensual too =0<. Other than that, a rather decent episode with making a way toward the end.
I'm guessing it'll never be explained, as the answer wasn't in the manga either, but I truly wonder what was in that notebook. Maybe it was her diary(hence, the manga's name) as to how she really feels about things, and that's why Aya didn't want anyone to know about it. |
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