Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[S.Freedom]

As interesting as it would be to see Yzak and Shinn interact. I can't see it mainly because I see him strangling Shinn like R_D said. Besides it would've meant Talia would've been demoted and not in actual command of the Minerva. Which would mean Durandal would have less control over the Minerva. As I don't see Yzak being the same yes man that Talia was. Unless your suggesting they demote Yzak instead?

[Destined_Fate]

I dunno.

Yzak would understand Shinn's stances pretty well and he could related on Shinn's desire for revenge and the fact that Yzak in the last war was pretty irrational early on thus he gets what Shinn's going through. Athrun though was flip flopping everywhere and confusing the hell out of Shinn when he would randomly praise Shinn than punch him out later.

That and since Yzak has a waifu following him around everywhere it would mean no Lunamaria having a crush on mentor drama and more time could be spent on her dealing with her feelings for Shinn and vice versa.

[S.Freedom]

I suppose, it would allow for more development for Dearka, Shiho, and Luna which is good. Though it still wouldn't solve the issue of who would be demoted Yzak or Talia. And if it's Talia that would mean Durandal would lose some control over the Minerva. Since Talia was seemingly to busy giving Durandal sexual favors to think and act on her own.

But LunaxShinn was way to force in my view. Up until they hooked up they'd appeared as nothing more than friends. Than suddenly after Shinn appeared to kill her crush and more importantly sister she practically jumped into Shinns arms while screaming "take me now shinn".

[Aquaman OS]

To be honest I always thought Luna crushing on Athrun was an aborted plot arc, where she, not Meyrin, was going to be the one to help him escape. It would also explain her following him to the meeting with AA (where she knew he wasn't meeting with them to give away Zaft secrets) and then seemingly promptly forgetting all about that despite Durandal essentially lying about that later on.

However they needed a pilot for Impulse. So they swapped for Meyrin. I think Rey was supposed to get Impulse. Legend was clearly not in the original plan, because unlike SF IJ Destroy and Destiny, which were getting promoted and shown in magazine scans and on the website very early on, to the point where SF and IJ initially had different names, Legend appeared right the heck out of nowhere in the 3rd ending with no forwarning. We didn't even get its name until awhile afterwards.

[S.Freedom]

Yeah it seemed like they dumbed Luna down midway through the series just to make things work.

Honestly, I kinda hoped that Luna had gone into Meyrin's room enough to notice Athrun once the guards left. At which point Athrun/Meyrin would explain things and Luna would offer her help. She'd rush to the Minerva and launch some how or another with all three packs only to see Shinn "kill" Athrun/Meyrin while possible hearing the three way conversation between Athrun, Shinn, and Rey. All of which would push her further into Athruns/AA's hands.

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

To be honest I always thought Luna crushing on Athrun was an aborted plot arc, where she, not Meyrin, was going to be the one to help him escape. It would also explain her following him to the meeting with AA (where she knew he wasn't meeting with them to give away Zaft secrets) and then seemingly promptly forgetting all about that despite Durandal essentially lying about that later on.

However they needed a pilot for Impulse. So they swapped for Meyrin. I think Rey was supposed to get Impulse. Legend was clearly not in the original plan, because unlike SF IJ Destroy and Destiny, which were getting promoted and shown in magazine scans and on the website very early on, to the point where SF and IJ initially had different names, Legend appeared right the heck out of nowhere in the 3rd ending with no forwarning. We didn't even get its name until awhile afterwards.

I've read that Meyrin turned face because she needed a boost in the character polls.

Looking back at the sudden Shinn and Lunamaria hookup, I'm guessing that it's because of the chemistry that Suzumura and Maaya had developed when voicing their characters (AFAIK, it was the first time they worked together).

[Destined_Fate]

How would hearing what's being said make her like Athrun? He just stole her sister away and if anything she would be pushed more so towards Shinn as Durandal and Rey push it in hard that Athrun is a traitor. She would also see first hand that Shinn was extremely reluctant to fight Athrun and didn't want to hurt him, let alone hill him, but that his hand was forced as Rey would have done it instead - only without mercy. It would also bring into question Shinn's loyalties and he may very well have been locked up for disobeying the order to take out a high profile traitor because of his own emotions.

It wouldn't end well for Lunamaria either. They could overlook her Sister betraying her, as her sister did have a crush on Athrun too, but if Shinn was deemed traitorous too than Lunamaria would be in even bigger trouble as now it's not only her Mentor and sister that are traitors, as they could just pawn it off as her sister putting love for Athrun over loyalty, but her partner and best friend as well. All in all, it was a bad situation that couldn't have ended any other way as Durandal had all the cards and Athrun was outplayed.

Originally Posted by S.Freedom

I suppose, it would allow for more development for Dearka, Shiho, and Luna which is good. Though it still wouldn't solve the issue of who would be demoted Yzak or Talia. And if it's Talia that would mean Durandal would lose some control over the Minerva. Since Talia was seemingly to busy giving Durandal sexual favors to think and act on her own.

But LunaxShinn was way to force in my view. Up until they hooked up they'd appeared as nothing more than friends. Than suddenly after Shinn appeared to kill her crush and more importantly sister she practically jumped into Shinns arms while screaming "take me now shinn".

Not seeing it being forced as Shinn and Lunamaria are very close friends and with his attitude it's more than just regular friendship that keeps her around to put up with his mood swings and self-guilt. SE at least made it more obvious that both do in fact have feelings with each other, they just don't act on it as it's confusing due to their friendship and them dealing with other BS on the side that it takes a major event for both to admit that they in fact do love each other and don't want to see the other die. That and Lunamaria literally had no one else close to her heart anymore, as far as the series is shown as her parents aren't ever show or heard from - most likely dead due to how protective she is of her sister, when she thought her sister died and Athrun had betrayed them. That and Shinn wanted her to punish and hate him as he hated himself for taking out Athrun and Meyrin despite him having no other choice which Lunamaria couldn't bring herself to do as she loved Shinn and understood why he did what he did.

They even added in, during the SEED Remaster, Lunamaria giving Shinn a very interested and mystified look when they're all heading out for training.

So originally it wasn't handled all that well but it was defiantly hinted on, though lightly, in the original TV series. SE just helped give it more development and the Remaster may even take liberties of adding in a few new short scenes between them or one of them looking at the other to hint jealousy.

You know, more obvious than it was. At least for Shinn who clearly showed to be jealous that Lunamaria stopped hanging out with him as much so she could chat with Athrun instead.

[n0m@n]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

Looking back at the sudden Shinn and Lunamaria hookup, I'm guessing that it's because of the chemistry that Suzumura and Maaya had developed when voicing their characters (AFAIK, it was the first time they worked together).

Oh yeah. They also did Zacks and Aerith from Crisis Core. Its pretty romantic that they got married in RL.

[Destined_Fate]

Eh.

Athrun x Lunamaria was never going to happen anyway as long as Cagalli lived. It was doomed to fail just like Athrun x Kira, Athrun x Lacus, Athrun x Nicol, Athrun x Durandal, Athrun x Meer, and Athrun x Meyrin.

Especially when you remember that Athrun has never shown to even be slightly interested in anyone but Cagalli and Kira.

At the very least it shows that even with women throwing themselves at him, literally in Meer's case, that Athrun was totally loyal to Cagalli even when he was angry that she nearly married off without telling him.

[S.Freedom]

Shinn may have been reluctant to fight Athrun but hearing Rey's words could be very damning. Especially if Luna used her head and took into account what was said between Kira and Athrun. And what they did during the special additions was because they realized they screwed up the relationship between ShinnXLuna. even with that it's still more friendship than romantic.

As for Athrun "stealing" Meyrin. She went with Athrun of her own free will. It's not stealing if the person went willingly.

[The American Average]

Originally Posted by S.Freedom

As for Athrun "stealing" Meyrin. She went with Athrun of her own free will. It's not stealing if the person went willingly.

i don't know, do you think she was in a clear mind? She was getting shot at by "I don't give a crap" Rey at the time bet bet she thought she was in as much danger as athrun was. I really think Athrun took her along because he wasn't sure what Rey was going to do to her if she was left there

[Destined_Fate]

Not really.

Hearing Rey's words would not change her opinion on Shinn at all nor would it change what she thought of Athrun at the time, the only thing it would do is make her not trust Rey all that much anymore. After all, as far as she knew Athrun was a traitor and if she was there she would be demanding that he give back her sister. If Meyrin refused to abandon Athrun than it would be very much in character for Lunamaria to blame Athrun for messing with Meyrin's head and playing with her heart as Lunamaria knows her sister loves Athrun. That and Lunamaria is very over protective of Meyrin, so she wouldn't even be all that rational until after Meyrin is removed from danger that, as far as she knows, Athrun put her in. That and Athrun doesn't try and surrender either.

They screwed up a lot of things, doesn't change that Athrun x Cagalli was always set in stone in the end as was Kira x Lacus and Shinn x Lunamaria.

It's stealing as far as Shinn and Lunamaria as concerned due to Athrun being labeled a traitor and it's quite obvious to both that Meyrin loves Athrun. Thus it wouldn't be hard for either to reach the conclusion that Athrun is using Meyrin and she isn't of sound mind to see that thus they must get her away from him.

[Paladinoras]

Well with Cagalli's VA hating on Morosawa, won't be surprised if they kicked her out of any future SEED projects.

[Aquaman OS]

I think the entire voice cast hates Morosawa and Fukuda at this point. Just that aside from Cagalli everyone else is in a position where they like the characters, and are willing to reprise, but only in games and the like when someone competent is in charge.

This could be one of the many reasons why the project is stalled, as it's like the majority of cast and crew and higher ups likely don't WANT them on the project after they nearly killed the show (more than once they almost had nothing to air and almost had the show cancelled) But because of how Japan works, they can't just outright fire him when it was his creation.

[Paladinoras]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

I think the entire voice cast hates Morosawa and Fukuda at this point. Just that aside from Cagalli everyone else is in a position where they like the characters, and are willing to reprise, but only in games and the like when someone competent is in charge.

This could be one of the many reasons why the project is stalled, as it's like the majority of cast and crew and higher ups likely don't WANT them on the project after they nearly killed the show (more than once they almost had nothing to air and almost had the show cancelled) But because of how Japan works, they can't just outright fire him when it was his creation.

Well honestly I believe that out of the other AUs, Cosmic Era has the most untapped potential. Plus I'm a huge fan of the designs, although I guess that's subjective. Then again, the Freedom is one of the most sought after Gunplas, so I guess it's not baseless.

At any rate, if someone more competent gets a hold of the series and makes the long-awaited Gundam SEED Movie (any news on that btw?), it'd be pretty fucking neat. Or at least Morosawa and Fukuda pre-Destiny, where they actually made a quality show and not erratically butcher characters each arc or so. Destiny was good in its own way, but it was obvious that it was poorly handled. (Plethora of stock footage etc)

And Naomi Shindoh voiced Cagalli in Gundam Seed Battle Destiny (last Gundam SEED game to come out, for the PS Vita), so I'm guessing that she has somewhat buried the hatchet, and is willing to voice Cagalli again. I don't think that she (and everyone else) can handle another butchering of her character though. If they do make a SEED movie, I hope that she actually returns to being the strong independent woman in SEED and end of Destiny instead of the weak-willed crybaby in early Destiny.

At this point though, I'm content with the Destiny HD remaster and if they're going to half-ass the Gundam Seed movie, then it's better off that they leave the series alone. Here's hoping that if it's made they'll include the other sideplots (Sven and Stargazer, Canard and Kira, Astray characters, etc)

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

I think the entire voice cast hates Morosawa and Fukuda at this point. Just that aside from Cagalli everyone else is in a position where they like the characters, and are willing to reprise, but only in games and the like when someone competent is in charge.

This could be one of the many reasons why the project is stalled, as it's like the majority of cast and crew and higher ups likely don't WANT them on the project after they nearly killed the show (more than once they almost had nothing to air and almost had the show cancelled) But because of how Japan works, they can't just outright fire him when it was his creation.

Does that mean that the best thing Sunrise can do is to demote Fukuda and/or Morosawa (more likely) to an advisory role, much like how Paramount "promoted" Gene Roddenberry to "executive consultant" for the Star Trek films?

[Destined_Fate]

I'm not sure that would be possible as Fukuda and/or Morosawa wouldn't take that all that well. Though hopefully over the years things have mellowed out and they're willing to extend an olive branch if the movie ever does get picked up again after the success HD remasters.

Cagalli though really needs her own Gundam again even if just for the Movie and they have her retire after it.

Lunamaria is going to need an upgrade as well as I doubt the Impulse will be all that great if they do a semi or full on time skip. The Destiny was also wrecked so it could use a few upgrades here and there.

[Gundamx]

Fukuda / Morosawa give them profit = not possiable
(good relation with worker but shitty anime like age will demoted them but destiny = not possible since it sold a lot of dvd/toys )

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

I'm not sure that would be possible as Fukuda and/or Morosawa wouldn't take that all that well. Though hopefully over the years things have mellowed out and they're willing to extend an olive branch if the movie ever does get picked up again after the success HD remasters.

The first Astray manga and Stargazer showed that a good story is possible without Fukuda and Morosawa involved.

I think that Stargazer is likely Primary canon, since it's written by one of the Seed/GSD writing staff.

You remember how Fukuda didn't like how GSD was adapted in the SRW games? I'm guessing that the only way he would be happy (short of having creative input into the games) is if it's a straight adaptation of the story.

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Cagalli though really needs her own Gundam again even if just for the Movie and they have her retire after it.

Lunamaria is going to need an upgrade as well as I doubt the Impulse will be all that great if they do a semi or full on time skip. The Destiny was also wrecked so it could use a few upgrades here and there.

There's always the Destiny Impulse for Luna, and they can rebuild the Destiny for Shinn, who would later upgrade to the Destiny 2 (placeholder name), which would be more like the Zeta, like transformability (unless Athrun has exclusive rights to transformable suits) and something similar to Zeta's Biosensor.