Hayate no Gotoku manga (raw discussion only)

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by zodanhko

Taking chapter 239 into consideration, I don't think it is hard to understand that Hayate never once considered Ayumu as a true love interest. I mean, he realized she loves him, and he just completely rejected her in his head.

You posted the past/"old" chapter? It is MUCH MORE reasonable if you takes the "CURRENT" chapter into consideration with his "true" thoughts to apply to Rah's statement that, "Hayate NEVER really love Ayumu."

Wrong, all we can say is that she doesn't represent him the same thing Athena does. That doesn't mean he never loved Ayumu.

Originally Posted by zodanhko

Yes, we don't know. However, since that is the first time the story shown he dreamed about her, and do you think it is a coincidence that he was shown to dream about her on the "SAME" day after Nagi reminded him of "We will be together forever?" The likelihood is very small. And we realized how hard he tried to forget her.

Nuh-uh, since he talked quite clearly about A-tan in chapter 88, there's nothing that may lead us to believe his memories were incomplete. However, we can say that the feeling of guilt wasn't as heavy as it was by chapter 178. In fact, taking into account the development (from chapter 88 to chapter 178) we can say that the burden of guilt kept on building up to that point. Nagi's words were just the detonator.

Originally Posted by zodanhko

Why does Nagi have to be in the picture? Unarguably, I don't think we need to talk about her as his "love" interest.

Because that was a list of people Hayate didn't regard in the same fashion as Athena. Nagi wasn't there. That's all I'm saying.

Originally Posted by zodanhko

What feelings? I believe he was tempting to get a girlfriend at the beginning of the story. I disagree if you think his feelings for Ayumu was "love" as he did to Athena.

I've never said it was anything to the same degree he felt for Athena, but that doesn't mean he didn't like her. As I've said, a person may like (romantically) many different people, but that doesn't mean he/she likes them all to the same degree.

[zodanhko]

Originally Posted by Used Can

Wrong, all we can say is that she doesn't represent him the same thing Athena does. That doesn't mean he never loved Ayumu.

He just officially stated that Athena was different from the others including Ayumu, Hina, Maria...which was referring to love. And he clearly realizes Ayumu loves him and just completely rejected her.

If you think he "loved" Ayumu- after he even rejected her before, and now, completely rejected her again in his head- and changed back to Athena, I must say I'm impressed. Seriously, for the lack of vocabulary, you are talking shet right now. (using your word ^^)

Originally Posted by Used Can

Nuh-uh, since he talked quite clearly about A-tan in chapter 88, there's nothing that may lead us to believe his memories were incomplete. However, we can say that the feeling of guilt wasn't as heavy as it was by chapter 178. In fact, taking into account the development (from chapter 88 to chapter 178) we can say that the burden of guilt kept on building up to that point. Nagi's words were just the detonator.

"Nuh-uh," in the EoTW arc, you do realized how hard he tried to forget about her right, as a child?
It makes much more sense to conclude that he remembered some part of her in the previous chapter until chapter 178. The reason for him dreaming about her was also given on the same day he started, the first time it shown his past with her. You can not deny that. It DOES NOT make sense if he needs an initiation to start dreaming about her if he already "FULLY" remember her. You can not deny that,

However, I can deny that he did not fully remember her until chapter 178 since we both do not know.

Originally Posted by Used Can

Because that was a list of people Hayate didn't regard in the same fashion as Athena. Nagi wasn't there. That's all I'm saying.

Did you place it there to make the argument longer?...

Originally Posted by Used Can

I've never said it was anything to the same degree he felt for Athena, but that doesn't mean he didn't like her. As I've said, a person may like (romantically) many different people, but that doesn't mean he/she likes them all to the same degree.

So you were saying he loved Ayumu, but loved Ayumu less than Athena with the chapters given? With those information given...
Can I start that Hayate loved Maria and Hina before, too? Since he had a crush on Maria (most likely like Maria more than Ayumu) and Hina always help him, he admired her? This is like what your doing right now...If that is your belief, I have nothing more to say.

[Koroshiya_Kame_13]

Originally Posted by zodanhko

"Nuh-uh," in the EoTW arc, you do realized how hard he tried to forget about her right, as a child?
It makes much more sense to conclude that he remembered some part of her in the previous chapter until chapter 178. The reason for him dreaming about her was also given on the same day he started, the first time it shown his past with her. You can not deny that. It DOES NOT make sense if he needs an initiation to start dreaming about her if he already "FULLY" remember her. You can not deny that,

However, I can deny that he did not fully remember her until chapter 178 since we both do not know.

You know, it was never said once that Hayate tried to forget about Athena. If you can tell me which chapter that says Hayate tried to forget about Athena during the EotW arc I'll reread it. Also, I don't think this is the first time since they parted their ways in 10 years that Hayate has dreamt about that event. I remember that Hayate also dreamt about it several times afterwards too, with no trigger what so ever. The dream Hayate had was probably to introduce Athena properly, as Hata had foreshadowed her appearance ages ago.

[zodanhko]

Originally Posted by Koroshiya_Kame_13

You know, it was never said once that Hayate tried to forget about Athena. If you can tell me which chapter that says Hayate tried to forget about Athena during the EotW arc I'll reread it. Also, I don't think this is the first time since they parted their ways in 10 years that Hayate has dreamt about that event. I remember that Hayate also dreamt about it several times afterwards too, with no trigger what so ever. The dream Hayate had was probably to introduce Athena properly, as Hata had foreshadowed her appearance ages ago.

That was the reason why he worked so hard and strengthen his body so much.you know, his crazy push-up routine?
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/hayate...u/c187/10.html

After he parted with her, he still dreamed about her. However, chapter 178 was the first time Hayate dreamed about her due to the trigger of "We will be together forever" after 10 years which as I stated "refreshed" his memory of her.

However, Athena never once forget about him with the ring still by her side as proof.

[Rah]

Love is either "at first sight", which is rare, or it "develops" over time. Hayata knew Ayumu for a while, even though he didn't interact much with her, since he was always busy with a job or misfortune around the corner. We can safely rule out love at first sight, but that can be said for Athena as well. If he had the chance to know her better, then little by little his feelings might change from friend / girl interest into love.

Let's say that he doesn't meet Nagi, nor does he meet with Athena ever again in the future. Ayumu somehow takes the first step (yeah, again) on his birthday, near graduation, or on some other event. They start going out, but how does Hayate act? In this scenario he wont meet with anyone else from the current cast, but he doesn't know that. He's still haunted by the memories of his past. He's been tormented by them for 10 years now, but he still can't let go. Could love change that? I wonder... if he could let go of the past, and stop hoping that he'll meet her again some day. If he couldn't do that, then he couldn't possibly get into a serious relationship with ANYONE AT ALL. Especially not if he follows Athena's standards, which are over the top.

But that's all an alternate reality. Now he has the chance of freeing himself from it all. If he can somehow manage to get together with her again, or if they part again, and this time for real without regrets.

If they part, he would be completely free to pursue any love interest. He might consider going out with Ayumu at that point, but if Hina confesses it would certainly mess things up. And if he does start going out with either of the two, Nagi would eventually notice, and........ heh... game over.

Well, things definitely won't go that way, because then he'd either have to give up on someone, or stay in a lock of uncertainty till... who knows? That is of course, if Hata doesn't understand that he can't please everyone.

People can certainly move on, but who can forget their first love?

Hayate needs to resolve everything with her now. But even so, that doesn't rule out the possibility of him trying to get her again! (this of course if he fails to do so in their first real meeting - that will happen soon, I hope...)

Athena is "becoming" a very important piece of the HnG universe. Whatever happens in Athens, he'll still meet with her again in Japan. They could be enemies, where Athena tries to get his gem, or something else entirely...


If they clash, and can't be together, because Athena's plan to get the gems, and Hayate's promise to Nagi, how will he take it? A clean departure, or full of regret like 10 years ago?

Well, if she could only borrow it for a moment to open the path....

Surprise me Hata~


Also, this here!

Originally Posted by zodanhko

That was the reason why he worked so hard and strengthen his body so much.you know, his crazy push-up routine?

Spoiler for Why yes, I do recall something like that...:

[leoblack9]

Originally Posted by EternityPala

A thought : Most of the heroines are pretty well off, and i'd say, there's a good chance, that they might help Hayate pay off his debts.

I had a thought like this, somehow..

Hamster: Hey Nagi, how much debt does Hayate own to you?

Nagi: 150million yen! So there's not in a million years that you'll be together with him!

Hina: (Fuu- I need to save up my money so when the time comes, I'll propose to Hayate and at the same time help him to pay his debt so he can be with me)

Athena: Only 150 million yen? Fine, a deal it is.

Nagi: No! I'll raise it now to 1 billion yen if you!

Athena: Face it, I can buy him from you even if the price is ten-fold.
(Ok I guess that's exaggeration)

Nagi: ..

[tsunade666]

even its ten fold or 20 fold and even its the whole inheritance of tennouso which holds the same level as sanzenin in power. It holds no point at all against the king's jewel which hayate holds though the only one who really needs the jewel is mikado. So even jewel itself is like worth the whole inheritance its not worth selling it. Maybe it can cost a couple of hundred million but if the buyer doesn't know its true meaning its nothing.

[zodanhko]

Well, I don't think Hayate is a person who rely on others especially with his debt. As much as Athena likes Hayate, I think she would prefer Hayate to solve the problem himself; not because she doesn't have money but that is what a man must do, solving his own problem. She may help him here and there, but most likely won't give the money to him directly.
It will amaze me if that actually occurs. Have to wait and see what Hata in-store.

[leoblack9]

It's just a thought, nothing to jump about but quite funny if it happens. Besides, I don't know how Hata's brain twists so there.

I suddenly want the series to be focused on a certain funny character..

[zodanhko]

No jumpy feelings there; mines' are thoughts as well which also very unlikely to happen. True, this manga is getting awfully difficult to predict lately, so many twists and turns.

[leoblack9]

Hmm, I wonder why I'm getting bored about the series lately, is it because of the consistent cliffhangers?

Usually when I was high on the series I couldn't get tired of it. That was the times when I usually thought of countless fanfics in my mind. So I get some sleepless nights.

And oh, none of those fanfics happened in a happy way, I always like it when Hayate suffers and there's drama and stuff. So there, I'm a full blown masochist.

Where's KLAUS?!! I want him to appear in the following chapters! Too many serious chapters with low energy (unlike EotW which was serious but high energy/feelings).

[zodanhko]

Sadly, that's what happen when two lovers reunited after they had a horribly unwanted departure. The cliffhangers are killing me...I personally would like some "high energy/feelings" as well like the ones in the EoTW arc especially.^^

[leoblack9]

Yeah, felt different really. Made me bawww over poor Hayate and pity him more.

Wait, who hasn't pitied Hayate yet?

Honestly the feeling I got from that arc is kinda the same feeling when I watched Elfen Lied, very damn heavy and unforgettable when done recently.

And oh, it sticks to my your like paste. It did on my mind for nearly 6 months! 6 months I tell you! Elfen lied well like 2 months, another one got on like 3 months as well (Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann).

[zodanhko]

No more talk about this subject please . It really gives me a bad vibe on the foregoing chapters.

[Rah]

Originally Posted by leoblack9

Yeah, felt different really. Made me bawww over poor Hayate and pity him more.

Wait, who hasn't pitied Hayate yet?

Honestly the feeling I got from that arc is kinda the same feeling when I watched Elfen Lied, very damn heavy and unforgettable when done recently.

And oh, it sticks to my your like paste. It did on my mind for nearly 6 months! 6 months I tell you! Elfen lied well like 2 months, another one got on like 3 months as well (Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann).

Heeeeeh, really??

I love tragedy. Especially sad endings.


Pity Hayate? Why would you do that? Enjoy his suffering! All the bad things continuously happening to him... heheh... that's the best freggin' part!!

It's like going to a funeral in a clown costume, and throwing water balloons at people! HAHAHAH, SHOW ME YOUR GRIEF!!!


*sigh*

How I wish someone died in HnG...

Hata is no fun... pffff

[tsunade666]

I enjoy hayate's continuous misfortune but having someone died on a comedy manga is a NO NO!

[zodanhko]

I won't mind if Hayate and Athena die together in the Royal Garden. Or do I? Well, at least have a child first or else her talents would go to waste...

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by zodanhko

He just officially stated that Athena was different from the others including Ayumu, Hina, Maria...which was referring to love. And he clearly realizes Ayumu loves him and just completely rejected her.

Once again, you're assuming that it was impossible for him to love more than one girl. In chapter 239, he said Athena is the girl he loves, but that doesn't mean there weren't other girls he liked. All it meant was that, compared to the other girls, Athena is the one he wants to be with.

Originally Posted by zodanhko

If you think he "loved" Ayumu- after he even rejected her before, and now, completely rejected her again in his head- and changed back to Athena, I must say I'm impressed. Seriously, for the lack of vocabulary, you are talking shet right now. (using your word ^^)

Ouch! That hurt, mate. ;_;

Originally Posted by zodanhko

"Nuh-uh," in the EoTW arc, you do realized how hard he tried to forget about her right, as a child?
It makes much more sense to conclude that he remembered some part of her in the previous chapter until chapter 178. The reason for him dreaming about her was also given on the same day he started, the first time it shown his past with her. You can not deny that. It DOES NOT make sense if he needs an initiation to start dreaming about her if he already "FULLY" remember her. You can not deny that,

However, I can deny that he did not fully remember her until chapter 178 since we both do not know.

Okay so, he was aware of A-tan by chapter 88; he seemed to be able to remember several of the things she taught him, and he even said/implied he had been following those things throughout his life, but he barely had any idea about her? That doesn't make much sense. But, all the same, I have no means to prove your idea completely wrong, so, I'll leave it that way.

Originally Posted by zodanhko

Did you place it there to make the argument longer?...

No, I've just mentioned it because you said Nagi wasn't nothing more but a friend (in Hayate's eyes). I pointed out she wasn't in Hayate's "not like Athena list".

Mind you, the only end I wouldn't like would be a Nagi end (I like her, but I don't think their relationship has been built that way). However, I'm not denying the chances for that to happen. In fact, that's what we may get in the end.

Originally Posted by zodanhko

So you were saying he loved Ayumu, but loved Ayumu less than Athena with the chapters given? With those information given...
Can I start that Hayate loved Maria and Hina before, too? Since he had a crush on Maria (most likely like Maria more than Ayumu) and Hina always help him, he admired her? This is like what your doing right now...If that is your belief, I have nothing more to say.

No, I'm basing myself on what Hayate himself said on chapter 157. If he's said something like that for either Maria, Hinagiku or any other girl, then I guess your argument would hold.

[zodanhko]

Originally Posted by Used Can

Once again, you're assuming that it was impossible for him to love more than one girl. In chapter 239, he said Athena is the girl he loves, but that doesn't mean there weren't other girls he liked. All it meant was that, compared to the other girls, Athena is the one he wants to be with.

No, that is not an assumption but according to how he truly felt and his personality with the evidences given which ,in chapter 239, already proved that he never once truly have the feelings known as love for another girl except Athena. The word "love" is very important to him that he had never once used for anyone except Athena which he through considerations figured out, the word which drive the fans crazy, and he "loved" Ayumu before?
I guess his confession to Athena can just be a joke then if he loves someone that easily. -.- NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you really believe he did loved Ayumu, I can not provide you any more meaningful information to change your opinion.

Originally Posted by Used Can

Okay so, he was aware of A-tan by chapter 88; he seemed to be able to remember several of the things she taught him, and he even said/implied he had been following those things throughout his life, but he barely had any idea about her? That doesn't make much sense. But, all the same, I have no means to prove your idea completely wrong, so, I'll leave it that way.

I never said he barely had any memory of her, but I wanted to indicate the events between him and her were not cleared to him which Nagi helped him remembered them and refreshed them. The events which made him fallen in love with her, and how she was so important to him. The events which make him realized her importance to him to this day. He can remember her but not necessarily the "events" that happened between them.

Originally Posted by Used Can

No, I've just mentioned it because you said Nagi wasn't nothing more but a friend (in Hayate's eyes). I pointed out she wasn't in Hayate's "not like Athena list".

Mind you, the only end I wouldn't like would be a Nagi end (I like her, but I don't think their relationship has been built that way). However, I'm not denying the chances for that to happen. In fact, that's what we may get in the end.

Then lets skip this.

Originally Posted by Used Can

No, I'm basing myself on what Hayate himself said on chapter 157. If he's said something like that for either Maria, Hinagiku or any other girl, then I guess your argument would hold.

I know, but according to the story, the chance of him actually have the feelings of "love" toward Ayumu before is really unthinkable, highly unlikely.

He had a crush on Maria so he interested in her. He may date her if she asked him out before. Can you proved that he did once not loved Maria? He even had a crush on Maria but never on Ayumu before. It makes sense that he loved Maria if he loved Ayumu before. What a player?
He admired Hina and think she is cute; he believed that Hina is too good for him. That means he believe that he would never have a chance with her, which does not mean he never have feelings for her. Can you prove that he had not have the "love" for Hina.
These kinds of thinking is ridiculous especially after chapter 239 although hardly can be proven if someone just said he "loved" them before, and stick to it using the "he never specifically say he didn't love them" to hide.

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by zodanhko

No, that is not an assumption but according to how he truly felt and his personality with the evidences given which ,in chapter 239, already proved that he never once truly have the feelings known as love for another girl except Athena. The word "love" is very important to him that he had never once used for anyone except Athena which he through considerations figured out, the word which drive the fans crazy, and he "loved" Ayumu before?
I guess his confession to Athena can just be a joke then if he loves someone that easily. -.- NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you really believe he did loved Ayumu, I can not provide you any more meaningful information to change your opinion.

Why do you think him having developed feelings for someone else would make his realisation about his feelings toward Athena a joke? If you remember, he was interested in getting a girlfriend, even if he had his past with Athena. That's not something new. In fact, it even makes that realisation an even bigger deal, because it'd mean that compared to other girl(s) he may have liked, Athena is the one he really wants to be with (by chapter 239, at the very least).

Originally Posted by zodanhko

I never said he barely had any memory of her, but I wanted to indicate the events between him and her were not cleared to him which Nagi helped him remembered them and refreshed them. The events which made him fallen in love with her, and how she was so important to him. The events which make him realized her importance to him to this day. He can remember her but not necessarily the "events" that happened between them.

Mate, we saw him remember the scene right before he and Athena parted during Sakuya's birthday. And, we also saw him cry and say his "she was right and I was wrong" phrase during the Segawa arc. Those events clearly show he already was aware of what happened 10 years ago.

Originally Posted by zodanhko

I know, but according to the story, the chance of him actually have the feelings of "love" toward Ayumu before is really unthinkable, highly unlikely.

He had a crush on Maria so he interested in her. He may date her if she asked him out before. Can you proved that he did once not loved Maria? He even had a crush on Maria but never on Ayumu before. It makes sense that he loved Maria if he loved Ayumu before. What a player?
He admired Hina and think she is cute; he believed that Hina is too good for him. That means he believe that he would never have a chance with her, which does not mean he never have feelings for her. Can you prove that he had not have the "love" for Hina.
These kinds of thinking is ridiculous especially after chapter 239 although hardly can be proven if someone just said he "loved" them before, and stick to it using the "he never specifically say he didn't love them" to hide.

Yes, he had a crush on Maria and he felt admiration for Hina. Both of them were almost-ideal girls. However, this doesn't apply to Ayumu, since she's fairly normal. In addition, as you've said, Hayate never displayed having a crush on Ayumu.

That's why I'm saying what he said/thought during chapter 157 shows he had feelings for her. Again, I'm not saying those feelings are even close to what he feels for Athena, but he did point out/imply that, had his parents not left him with that debt, and if Ayumu had still confessed to him, he may have accepted her feelings.